Ive read alot about people wanting to be open players lately here on the forum....what is an open player, is it shortstop speed or like an average A player
An open player
- Thread starter BlaineBarcus
- Start date
My guess Blaine is an "open" player......is no "one" type of player, but capable of being an "A"...or 'open" on any given occasion....
It is not so easy to pinpoint.....but, "shortstop"....is a good place to start!
G.
I've always understood the progression to be:
D
C
B
A
Shortstop
Open
Pro
D
C
B
A
Shortstop
Open
Pro
That is the progression I have always seen.
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How does this progression get measured? I play in two rooms, in one I am one of the best players in the other I need a ton of weight. I guess in one room I would be an "A" player in the other maybe a "B-". Do you average the two, have different rankings in different rooms.
I never heard the term shortstop befor i played pool, it was always
D
C
B
A
open
pro
I figured open and shortstop were one in he same but Ive never been told this person is a shortstop, to know how one plays. With every level in pool its going to have highs and lows, but open in any game is darn good.
D
C
B
A
open
pro
I figured open and shortstop were one in he same but Ive never been told this person is a shortstop, to know how one plays. With every level in pool its going to have highs and lows, but open in any game is darn good.
I don't think there is any difference in player's quality of play but there is difference
in consistancy. Any open player can easly beat a pro, I've seen it many times. I mean
there is a fine line between these two. I could be wrong, I don't know for sure.
NO, local room ratings mean nothing. They are just used for local tournaments, etc.
There is no hard and fast rule. However, its generally understood (IMO)...
In a race to 10 games by throwing the following number of balls on the table (ghost, but without the break, just throwing however many balls on table):
All below are on 9 foot table.
D player will NOT run out with 3 balls on table. Has no idea how to execute safeties. No idea of position play.
C player will run out with 3 balls. Strong C will run out with 4. Some safety play. Beginnings of good position play. Beginnings of overall game strategy.
B player will run out with 4 and 5 balls left on table. Strong B with 6 and 7 balls. Good safety knowledge and execution. Good kicking.
A player WILL beat the 9 ball ghost. A player will run 100 balls as their high run in straight pool IF that is their main game. Excellent safety and kicking and strategy. Will run a 2 or 3 or higher pack occasionally.
Shortstop is a step above A.
Open and pro are about the same. Will beat 10 ball ghost. Might run a mini package every set they play. Basically can play with anyone, except the TOP pros, like Archer, Corey, SVB, any Filipino
Note, recreational players (people on dates, etc.) are NOT D players. They are bangers, or Z players. They don't count in this rating. D players are serious about pool, but either are just starting out, or have no natural ability if they have been playing for more than 6 months to 1 year.
There is no hard and fast rule. However, its generally understood (IMO)...
In a race to 10 games by throwing the following number of balls on the table (ghost, but without the break, just throwing however many balls on table):
All below are on 9 foot table.
D player will NOT run out with 3 balls on table. Has no idea how to execute safeties. No idea of position play.
C player will run out with 3 balls. Strong C will run out with 4. Some safety play. Beginnings of good position play. Beginnings of overall game strategy.
B player will run out with 4 and 5 balls left on table. Strong B with 6 and 7 balls. Good safety knowledge and execution. Good kicking.
A player WILL beat the 9 ball ghost. A player will run 100 balls as their high run in straight pool IF that is their main game. Excellent safety and kicking and strategy. Will run a 2 or 3 or higher pack occasionally.
Shortstop is a step above A.
Open and pro are about the same. Will beat 10 ball ghost. Might run a mini package every set they play. Basically can play with anyone, except the TOP pros, like Archer, Corey, SVB, any Filipino
Note, recreational players (people on dates, etc.) are NOT D players. They are bangers, or Z players. They don't count in this rating. D players are serious about pool, but either are just starting out, or have no natural ability if they have been playing for more than 6 months to 1 year.
I broke and ran five racks, more than once. On regular basis I can do 1-3. So what
rank would that make me?
I think that makes you an A. If you can beat the 9 ball ghost on a fullsize table than for sure. I think lots of B players will have a 3 pack once or twice in their life. But to have multiple 5 packs I think you have to be an A.
You might even be stronger than an A if every set you run 1 to 3 racks. But to be an A or higher, your whole game has to also be very well rounded, and not just your offense.
Again, this is IMO, cause there is not hard and fast rule, and I'm a low B player by my definitions above.
That's why I am B+. I'm just not consistant enough or seasoned or both. When I'm on
I can shoot A or above,but half the time I'm not on. I'm working on it and I see progress.
I also want to say I think as a group we overestimate how many balls on the table we can get out on.
I challenge everyone to try the following:
Race to 10 with the ghost.
Throw 3 balls on the table and take ball in hand. If a ball drops when you throw it, throw it again. No combo on the highest ball for a win, just make all the balls in order. If you do, you win, if not, you lose. Do this until you or the ghost gets 10 games. Write down your score.
Then repeat with 4 balls race to 10.
Then 5 balls race to 10.
Then 6 balls race to 10.
Keep repeating until you are a huge underdog.
I really think you might be surprised where you really stand (if you never did this before, the way I'm describing it)
I think the scores would be like this:
3 balls D: 4-10, C: 10-6, B: 10-4, A: 10-1, Open: 10-0
4 balls D: 1-10, C: 10-9, B: 10-6, A: 10-2, Open: 10-0
5 balls D: 0-10, C: 4-10, B: 10-8, A: 10-3, Open: 10-1
6 balls D: 0-10, C: 1-10, B: 10-9, A: 10-4, Open: 10-1
7 balls D: 0-10, C: 0-10, B: 5-10, A: 10-5, Open: 10-2
8 balls D: 0-10, C: 0-10, B: 3-10, A: 10-5, Open: 10-2
9 balls D: 0-10, C: 0-10, B: 3-10, A: 10-6, Open: 10-3
10 balls D:0-10, C: 0-10, B: 1-10, A: 6-10, Open: 10-6
I challenge everyone to try the following:
Race to 10 with the ghost.
Throw 3 balls on the table and take ball in hand. If a ball drops when you throw it, throw it again. No combo on the highest ball for a win, just make all the balls in order. If you do, you win, if not, you lose. Do this until you or the ghost gets 10 games. Write down your score.
Then repeat with 4 balls race to 10.
Then 5 balls race to 10.
Then 6 balls race to 10.
Keep repeating until you are a huge underdog.
I really think you might be surprised where you really stand (if you never did this before, the way I'm describing it)
I think the scores would be like this:
3 balls D: 4-10, C: 10-6, B: 10-4, A: 10-1, Open: 10-0
4 balls D: 1-10, C: 10-9, B: 10-6, A: 10-2, Open: 10-0
5 balls D: 0-10, C: 4-10, B: 10-8, A: 10-3, Open: 10-1
6 balls D: 0-10, C: 1-10, B: 10-9, A: 10-4, Open: 10-1
7 balls D: 0-10, C: 0-10, B: 5-10, A: 10-5, Open: 10-2
8 balls D: 0-10, C: 0-10, B: 3-10, A: 10-5, Open: 10-2
9 balls D: 0-10, C: 0-10, B: 3-10, A: 10-6, Open: 10-3
10 balls D:0-10, C: 0-10, B: 1-10, A: 6-10, Open: 10-6
Heres a question, what's an A player or shortstop speed? LOL. Because i'm in Canada and i've never heard of an A player.
Seems how you throw them out should be a factor. What about racking them and taking BIH afterwards? Why or why wouldn't that work with this grading system?
You can rack them. But I wanted to keep the same number of balls on the table. Make it more about a position challenge than a breaking challenge. Plus, its so much easier to just throw the balls on the table, for us lazy ones, lol.
I also think we put way to much emphasis on the break. An "A" and above I can understand. But for the rest of the players, runs are ended on position mistakes, that lead to tough shots and ultimately misses. Not on if your break is good or not.
I also think we put way to much emphasis on the break. An "A" and above I can understand. But for the rest of the players, runs are ended on position mistakes, that lead to tough shots and ultimately misses. Not on if your break is good or not.
When i throw them I just randomly do it. They end up different all the time.
Interesting
I havent seen this type of chart before but I play your described game as practice.
I dont keep detailed records or records at all but this is what I noticed with me.
1- Huge difference throwing the balls out and breaking. Breaking while leading to some balls on the break tends to spread the balls out less.
2- big difference obviously between big table and bar table after 6 balls. Not muh difference beforehand.
3-For me theres a big difference between 8 and 9balls. Surprisingly big.
I can kill the 8 ball ghost yet lose repeatedly to the 9ball.
4- very little difference between 9 and 10 ball ghosts. I dont play much 10 ball so I rarely practice.
5- I play until I win 5 in a row. When I reach the 8 and 9 ball levels I play races to 7.
6- I also feel that while it helps your running out ability and thinking it can hurt your ability to THINK during matches. I think players tend to try to do more things above their level when in matches instead of being smart and playing percentages.
7- I had a friend (bruce berrong) who was a very good player at the time play Fargo once. He had many low scores(going for breakouts early) but also many very high (some perfect).
Funny story about his first time doing it..,,,,,
I explained the game and the flipping to playing in order. He looks at the table after the break and said "ok I flip" I started laughing. His mentality was that he was going to run out enough early to warrant the chance.
Big difference between guys of his level and the average guys. Average guy waits until he gets some points and then switches. Top guys go for it due to their percentages.
I think your gaps between levels is to big. Is there really that much difference between a c player and a b player playing the 6 ball ghost?
Good points. You last comment quoted above. My thoughts on the chart are its not linear. Just like you mentioned you can kill the 8 ball ghost but lose repeatedly the the 9 ball ghost. There is a huge jump there. Its a similar thing I have between a C and a B. I think the distinguishing number between a C and B player is running out with 4 balls on the table. It takes a solid B to run out with 6. A C player will be lucky to get a 6 ball out. tHats why I have him at 1-10 with 6 balls. Its just out of his range, except when everything goes great.
I'm also at the borderline C+/B- level myself right now. So I can relate to these numbers. I don't have personal experience due to my skill level with the higher rated players. THe chart is my best estimated guess at this point.
I think the key factor that is missing is pressure.
Are we talking about people who beat the ghost or run racks consistently in practice? In competition? With a room full of people watching?
PRESSURE is the deciding factor i think.
I know plenty of guys who play pretty spiffy when they are banging balls, who completely fold when you lean on them a little.
Iusedtoberich's scale is the way i've always understood, but there was always pressure added in, as well as distinctions, such s tournament pressure, BIG tournament pressure, and gambling pressure.
IMO It's actually a very complicated process to assess these rankings.
Are we talking about people who beat the ghost or run racks consistently in practice? In competition? With a room full of people watching?
PRESSURE is the deciding factor i think.
I know plenty of guys who play pretty spiffy when they are banging balls, who completely fold when you lean on them a little.
Iusedtoberich's scale is the way i've always understood, but there was always pressure added in, as well as distinctions, such s tournament pressure, BIG tournament pressure, and gambling pressure.
IMO It's actually a very complicated process to assess these rankings.
An observation
Although tennis does not normally handicap Tournaments , they have a
solid nationwide rating system that is very similar to what everybody seems to be reaching for. there are letter ranks that are interchangeable with number ranks. For instance:
3.0=C
3.5=C+
4.0=B
4.5=B+
5.0=A
5.5=A+
6.0=OPEN
But even a small tournament would require at least 6 courts and go from dawn to dusk for two days to have a winner in each rank.
Open would be open to any rank except active touring pro.They would be ex-college players, ex-touring pros,club teaching pros and other exceptional players including any lower ranks who wanted to risk losing their head. Open should be open to anybody who feels qualified to play at that level. There need not be any class above it.
There is another equalizer beside rank, of course. That is the size of the prize money. The higher the prize the more upper level players will enter.
I'm not suggesting how the handicapping should be done but the ranking system has worked well for the USTA for years.
Although tennis does not normally handicap Tournaments , they have a
solid nationwide rating system that is very similar to what everybody seems to be reaching for. there are letter ranks that are interchangeable with number ranks. For instance:
3.0=C
3.5=C+
4.0=B
4.5=B+
5.0=A
5.5=A+
6.0=OPEN
But even a small tournament would require at least 6 courts and go from dawn to dusk for two days to have a winner in each rank.
Open would be open to any rank except active touring pro.They would be ex-college players, ex-touring pros,club teaching pros and other exceptional players including any lower ranks who wanted to risk losing their head. Open should be open to anybody who feels qualified to play at that level. There need not be any class above it.
There is another equalizer beside rank, of course. That is the size of the prize money. The higher the prize the more upper level players will enter.
I'm not suggesting how the handicapping should be done but the ranking system has worked well for the USTA for years.