Anatomy of A Mis-Cue

[JoeyInCali]

There is one more thing that I have noticed about mis-cues, regardless of the stroke. I think that the relative humidity in the room can play a roll in mis-cues. The reason I say that is because there is one place where I play which always seems to be more humid than everywhere else. Every time I play there, my chalk slowly gets darker and darker, and it becomes more difficult to apply it to the tip. The tip seems to get smoother too. I've experienced and seen mis-cues in that place all the time, even knowing that I stroked it perfect. Any other thoughts on humidity and chalk?

Happens all da time with wet chalk.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I would like to read some thoughts on what people say what is the reason for a mis-cue...

It seems obvious that the most times a miscue happens is with draw or worse yet draw coupled with english.....but what exactly is happening in the stroke that causes this mis-cue???...and why does it seem to happen far less with extreme top english???

Tip to hard? Tip too soft? Does the tip deflect/slide off the CB? Could the tip be dipping at impact due to Elbow drop or (lack) of elbow drop? Bridge hand moving? Jerky stroke? etc. etc...

What is the anatomy of this dreaded Mis-Cue?

The reason many Mis-Cue are many like.

Forgot to Chalk their tip

Dropped their Elbow on the Stroke

Improper Chalking Technique

Tip that was a Smoother as a New Born?s backside, that will not hold chalk.

Etc.

 

[BRKNRUN]

There is one more thing that I have noticed about mis-cues, regardless of the stroke. I think that the relative humidity in the room can play a roll in mis-cues. The reason I say that is because there is one place where I play which always seems to be more humid than everywhere else. Every time I play there, my chalk slowly gets darker and darker, and it becomes more difficult to apply it to the tip. The tip seems to get smoother too. I've experienced and seen mis-cues in that place all the time, even knowing that I stroked it perfect. Any other thoughts on humidity and chalk?

I think the Mike Page video link that was posted is a good watch for this.

Freshly cleaned balls seem to fall into this catagory as well.

I think some climate changes may have an effect on how far out on the ball you can effectivly hit before the mis-cue occures.

If that video is accurate, then I definatly push the limit on how far out you can hit before a mis-cue occures....I feel like I may be outside that circle as is...(if not right on it)

It may very well be why I can hit normal draw strokes with no problem at all, but as I increase or decrease stroke speed I run into potential mis-cues... A slight deveation from my target under extreme strokes could cause a mis-cue since I am so close to the mis-cue zone...

 

[BRKNRUN]

The reason many Mis-Cue are many like.

Forgot to Chalk their tip

Dropped their Elbow on the Stroke

Improper Chalking Technique

Tip that was a Smoother as a New Born?s backside, that will not hold chalk.

Etc.

Um...yes....but I was looking more into the actual anatomy instead of just the basics....(as in some of the very good links that were posted)

But you are certanly correct...those can be causes of a mis-cue...

Thanks

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Well ???????

Um...yes....but I was looking more into the actual anatomy instead of just the basics....(as in some of the very good links that were posted)

But you are certanly correct...those can be causes of a mis-cue...

Thanks

Well with all the Ferrules with Blue, and Green, and other Colored Chalk rings on em, many do not even understand HOW to apply Chalk properly.

Not talking about House Cues either.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Well with all the Ferrules with Blue, and Green, and other Colored Chalk rings on em, many do not even understand HOW to apply Chalk properly.

Not talking about House Cues either.

Gotta be the dumbest post I've read this month.
Bruce, you are the man.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

trying to break with a thin shaft with a small diametered tip (9mm). no matter how you chalk it or hit the ball dead center , the amount of maximum force would cause the cue to deflect.

Conclusion, don't use that kind of cue for breaking. cue is just too small for breaking. it is an anatomy of a miscue !

 

[asn130]

anytime your tip has any motion that isnt straight through the cueball, you risk a miscue. so, any side to side or up and down motion is risky.

side to side & up up and down movement is usaully a symptom of a stroke flaw.

just my opinion.

 

[av84fun]

I looked at the high speed miscue draw shot from the link hang the 9 posted and it looks like the tip hits the CB and deflects down into the cloth...

Right...but does the tip then rebound up to contact the bottom of the CB or is the CB gone by that time?

Regards,
Jim

 

[av84fun]

trying to break with a thin shaft with a small diametered tip (9mm). no matter how you chalk it or hit the ball dead center , the amount of maximum force would cause the cue to deflect.

Conclusion, don't use that kind of cue for breaking. cue is just too small for breaking. it is an anatomy of a miscue !

I am not aware of any research that would show that a thin cue...properly chalked and striking the CB dead center would produce a miscue.

In fact, I don't think that a tip that had NEVER been chalked would cause a miscue if it strikes the CB dead center or very nearly so.

Don't ever get suckered by a top player who says he will play you with a brand new, unchalked tip because with just occasional scuffing up they can play jam up with very near centerball contact!

(-:
Jim

 

[BRKNRUN]

Right...but does the tip then rebound up to contact the bottom of the CB or is the CB gone by that time?

Regards,
Jim

It looks like the tip contacts the CB and then noticably goes down into the cloth...It does not look like the tip comes off of the CB during that process...(there may be one frame where there is possiblility of some separation but it is not clear separation)......The tip looks to remian on the CB until it is "airborne"

http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-44.htm


I wonder if a firmer bridge (perhaps shorter bridge) would keep the tip from that downward deflection???

On the other hand (for power stroke shots) I wonder if the shorter bridge length would hinder the applied spin?..... (seems to me I get better draw results with a slightly longer bridge vs a shorter bridge)

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I will stand by my statement, "Well with all the Ferrules with Blue, and Green, and other Colored Chalk rings on em, many do not even understand HOW to apply Chalk properly"

 

[longhair]

Right...but does the tip then rebound up to contact the bottom of the CB or is the CB gone by that time?

Regards,
Jim

I think that the sound of a miscue is the sound of the side of your cue (the ferrule, usually) hitting the cueball, sometimes more than once. Does that get to your question?

 

[BRKNRUN]

I will stand by my statement, "Well with all the Ferrules with Blue, and Green, and other Colored Chalk rings on em, many do not even understand HOW to apply Chalk properly"

Respectfully...I think you are still missing my intent.

There are many people that draw the ball very well and know how to apply chalk.....Of those there are quite a few that are not able to consistently draw the ball like Larry Nevel...(sort of super human draw if you will)......

I think the difference between people like myself that can consistently draw the ball well but can't "consistently" draw the ball like Larry Nevel has more involved than how the chalk is applied.

Many people will when attempting to draw the ball that much will mis-cue....from time to time...(or just not catch that sweet spot for the draw)

My intent was to explore some of the more specific aspects of the mis-cue to perhaps apply it to a better..closer to (superhuman) draw stroke...

 

[Stones]

Never chalk before a miscue! LOL

Stones

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

My intent was to explore some of the more specific aspects of the mis-cue to perhaps apply it to a better..closer to (superhuman) draw stroke...

Point made.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

These are various quotes from around the thread:

most times a miscue happens is with draw or worse yet draw coupled with english.....but what exactly is happening in the stroke that causes this mis-cue???...and why does it seem to happen far less with extreme top english???

The main factor is probably that the tip tends to dip downward with a slightly too-far-forward grip, which causes miscues with draw but not with follow. When your forearm is about perpendicular to your stick the tip travels more or less in a straight line, but right after this the tip begins to dip - so setting up correctly, with the forearm perpendicular when the tip is right at the CB is very important.

Another specific type mis-cue is the draw with english....sometimes it seems like the tip deflects off the ball...even though struck exactly where intended.

The "strike zone" is a circle (about the size of a quarter) around centerball - you can't go as low with sidespin or you'll hit outside the strike zone circle and miscue. If you hit at the bottom of the circle, you can't go sideways at all.

Do you stay with the no elbow drop and move your grip hand back to delay the dip...(which also changes the timing of the delivery) or do you you maintain the same grip position and use elbow drop to maintain the tip tragectory?

I recommend moving the grip hand back to keep the stroke as simple as possible. You can do this for all shots or just for extreme draw shots, but I recommend doing it for all shots so that your follow shots also improve. It will take some getting used to.

I do believe Mr. Jewett was involved in the videos, but I could be mistaken him for someone else.

Bob and Dr. Dave are colleagues at Billiards Digest, and Bob certainly consults with Dave, but I think Bob's main video claim to fame is the Jacksonville Tape(s).

If the tip hits the CB first, it will be gone (the CB) before the tip could proceed down to the cloth and then back up again.

As somebody else said, high speed video shows the tip re-contacting the CB after sidespin miscues, so I'd expect the same with draw (maybe more so, since hitting the table surface would speed up the "rebound"). I don't know if this is a major factor in hopping the CB.

if you're hitting the ball softer, the pressure between the tip and ball during contact is decreased, and you can't hit as far out on the edge without the tip losing grip and miscuing.

I'd expect the opposite. I know that when I want to hit outside the Strike Zone I seem to have more success with a softer shot, but some of that may be because I'm more accurate hitting softer.

I wonder if a firmer bridge (perhaps shorter bridge) would keep the tip from that downward deflection???

Firmer: no, because sideways movement of the shaft isn't the cause of miscues; if the shaft didn't go sideways the CB would (anyway, the soft flesh on your fingers doesn't allow you to hold the shaft completely immovable).

Shorter: yes, because the tip won't dip as much (less "leverage").

On the other hand (for power stroke shots) I wonder if the shorter bridge length would hinder the applied spin?..... (seems to me I get better draw results with a slightly longer bridge vs a shorter bridge)

If there's any effect from this, I'd expect it to be only because you can gain more stroke speed with a longer stroke.

pj
chgo