Another 'How to play' scenario

Apel

New member
Hi all -

I don't post often at all, but have gleaned some great information from the site. The knowledge and experience here is amazing. That said, I ran into a situation at league the other night that I would appreciate your input on.
  • BCA
  • Shooting at the 5
That said...how would you play this layout? I'll share the outcome after a bit.

Thanks much.
Apel

CueTable Help

 
i dont know much about the BCA, can you use jump cues??? if so then i would attempt to jump the 5 in, if not then i would slow kick at the 5 and try to bump it up table and snooker him behind the 5... your options are really limited in my opinion, maybe someone else can see something that i dont.
 
First of all, my general advice for this sort of situation is this:

Run all the way out when you get the chance. If your opponent misses on his last ball, and you have an open table, you are supposed to lose if you don't run out. Try to avoid asking how to handle impossible situations. The answer is always going to be - "Don't put yourself in that situation next time." If you had clusters, the clusters should have been handled early, without leaving your opponent a kick.

In essence, don't run 6 balls, miss your leave, and THEN decide to play safe. Your opponent will hit his kick a good percentage of the time, and you end up having to make a supertough shot to avoid losing.

That being said, here is an idea:

CueTable Help



You're most likely playing on a bar table, so there is no way to depend on this result. If your table rolls true enough to get an accurate kick, try kicking into a very light half ball hit. The cue ball will rub slighly off the side of the 5, and the 5 will bank a few inches off the side rail, depending on the hit. If you are lucky, you hook your opponent on the hit. And make no mistake, you are relying on getting lucky on the hit.

You COULD try just softly kicking straight into the back of the 5, but if you hit it too hard, you sell out, and lose.

Either way, just kick very lightly into the back of the 5. With the equipment you are most likely playing on, you have to hope on getting a good result.

If this is a bar table, you might get lucky and the cue ball might fall into the "rail track" on the kick. If the table has a pronounced rail track, then it probably does not get recovered often. If it doesn't get recovered often, the cloth and balls are probably dirty, which actually increases your chances for a positive result if you make the hit without rolling off.

I wouldn't get too tied up with this shot, tho. You are "supposed to lose" in this position. :D

Russ
 
Last edited:
Ok, I like a little more aggressive shot than Russ. The 3 rail kick for this shot is fairly easy to line up because the OB is on the rail and if you miss the pocket you're going to leave a little more difficult shot for your opponent. At this point in the game you're all in so you may as well shoot for the gold.

CueTable Help

 
Tough Situation

You are in a tough situation here. Jumping wouldn't be a bad idea (being that it iis on a bar table and easier to reach), but, depends on your ability. I would try just to make contact and try to leave the cue ball on the opposite rail instead of trying to make the ball, missing and selling out.

However, the shot I would feel most comfortable with is diagrammed below. I would kick at the 5, hitting the rail first so I would send the cueball over to the foot rail and to the opposite side of the table.

CueTable Help

 
klockdoc said:
You are in a tough situation here. Jumping wouldn't be a bad idea (being that it iis on a bar table and easier to reach), but, depends on your ability. I would try just to make contact and try to leave the cue ball on the opposite rail instead of trying to make the ball, missing and selling out.

However, the shot I would feel most comfortable with is diagrammed below. I would kick at the 5, hitting the rail first so I would send the cueball over to the foot rail and to the opposite side of the table.

CueTable Help



Wow, we're really on the same page today Klockdoc! Yes, this is the end-result you want to have. The other alternative (though I don't think it's quite reasonable based on the layout of this diagram) is to use a left-english masse around the right side of the 11-ball.

By kicking, you're opening up a number of possibilities here. If you hit it flat, there's a good chance the 5-ball is going in (though if it doesn't, you lose). if you hit it with any kind of angle, you're leaving him safe and there's a real good chance of that happening. With that said, the shot has bonafide two-way action and most of the possible results have "win" all over it.
 
klockdock,

Thanks for this.. If I had thought more open mindedly about where the best position on the table would be for the cue ball, I probably would have found this shot.

I guess I haven't been plaing enough lately. I haven't played a good player in nearly 2 years at this point.

This is a good shot.

Russ
 
kockdoc,

While I was walking to get chow, I was thinking about your diagram..

I still think your shot is a much better shot than mine, but keep in mind the situation you might be faced with next shot...

If the 5 ball ends up on the top rail, your opponent will most likely just roll his ball near the corner pocket, and hope you miss the hard shot on the 5. You have little choice in the matter, as the speed of the shot lays best for your diagram.. It's just something to kepp in mind for other, similar situations. If the layout were just a little different, you might tweak your speed on the kick to get the 5 ball to bounce off the top rail, leaving an easy next shot, while still getting the cue ball to the right area of the table.

Russ
 
Russ - Of course, the obvious move is to never get into this spot. Know what...it happens. Nobody ever intends to miss a leave and hook themselves, but it still happens. More often to some, less often to the better players. However, we all will be presented with shots or layouts that are less desireable than others at some point. I suppose I should have stated the obvious in the initial post. Anyway, thanks for your insight.

Klockdoc - I really like that shot. I didn't see that one while at the table but it would have been the go-to option.

Actionhound and Klockdoc mentioned the shot I went with. When it was all said and done, I broke out the jump cue and went for the win. Made the shot, but the cue ball caught the five on the first hop and caromed off table. Foul, ball in hand, easy out for the loss.

Thanks all for the ideas.

Take care.
Apel

CueTable Help

 
I do not play in a league but why not shoot the cueball into the 11 and freeze the 11 to the 5? The incoming player has ball in hand but not much to shoot at.
 
I like the masse shot around the 11 if you're comfortable with it. It has about the same result as the kick.

A jump would probably be the best choice if you have it though.
 
Apel said:
Russ - Of course, the obvious move is to never get into this spot. Know what...it happens. Nobody ever intends to miss a leave and hook themselves, but it still happens. More often to some, less often to the better players. However, we all will be presented with shots or layouts that are less desireable than others at some point. I suppose I should have stated the obvious in the initial post. Anyway, thanks for your insight.

Klockdoc - I really like that shot. I didn't see that one while at the table but it would have been the go-to option.

Actionhound and Klockdoc mentioned the shot I went with. When it was all said and done, I broke out the jump cue and went for the win. Made the shot, but the cue ball caught the five on the first hop and caromed off table. Foul, ball in hand, easy out for the loss.

Thanks all for the ideas.

Take care.
Apel

CueTable Help


Yes, I was about to say, the problem with jumping is the proximity to the edge of the table. If you get too much hop (which is likely considering you're jumping over a whole ball), you run the risk of hopping right off the table. I mean, sometimes it's worth the risk, especially if you feel confident you're going to make the shot. However, the kick-shot (or the masse Samiel and I suggested) simply offers a wonderful solution - it leaves the cueball in the quadrant of the table where he has to bank the 11-ball.

The bottom line is, the moment you found yourself behind the 11-ball, you quickly became the underdog to win the game. If you actually pocketed the 11-ball, it couldn't have been that bad a play.
 
Tennesseejoe said:
I do not play in a league but why not shoot the cueball into the 11 and freeze the 11 to the 5? The incoming player has ball in hand but not much to shoot at.
I dont know about that, even frozen to the 5 on the rail, banking the 11 in the side still wouldnt be the hardest shot in the world, but i guess that depends on your opponent's weak points.
 
Tennesseejoe said:
I do not play in a league but why not shoot the cueball into the 11 and freeze the 11 to the 5? The incoming player has ball in hand but not much to shoot at.

See the diagram below on 3 pages. click on the page arrows on the lower left to turn the pages.

You freeze the 11 to the 5, Pg. 1 - I get BIH and tap the 11 into the 5 and freeze you behind the 11. Now you have to kick to the 5 and I am about 100% to get BIH back from you because you are froze to the back side and the only kick you have is to the other end of the table. Pg. 2

Once you miss, I take BIH, Pg. 3, make the 11 and then the 8. Game, set, match.

CueTable Help

 
Tennesseejoe said:
I do not play in a league but why not shoot the cueball into the 11 and freeze the 11 to the 5? The incoming player has ball in hand but not much to shoot at.


The trouble is this:

You shoot the shot you just said (page 1) and give up ball in hand. Your opponent takes ball in hand, and if they're smart, shoots the shot on page 2, which is a legal hit. You're stuck in the position on page 3, and you're pretty much up a creek without a paddle.

CueTable Help



-Andrew
 
Oops, I got mixed up who's stripes and solids, but klockdoc correctly posted exactly what I meant to say.

-Andrew
 
because.........

Tennesseejoe said:
I do not play in a league but why not shoot the cueball into the 11 and freeze the 11 to the 5? The incoming player has ball in hand but not much to shoot at.



because all he would have to do is freeze the cb up to the eleven after hitting the 11 into the 5 thus freein up his 11 to win most likely on the next shot.
 
I like the 5 from behind here hoping to hook... I tried this shot a few times. I rolled up behind the 5 hitting half ball and having the CB hit rail not the 5. The 5 rolled on a line blocking the 11. I hooked more times than not. I tried the other kick going 2 rails behind the 11. Didn't have any luck with this one.
 
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