Another Mosconi Cup suggestion thread (Oh, bother!)

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
So.. I've read a few threads and they had some interesting thoughts, but here is my take on it...

What defined the players on the Mosconi Cup teams that won back in the 90s?

They were full of absolute killers who had an unholy hatred of missing balls/selling out on bad safes. Strickland, Archer, Davenport, etc.

To be brutally honest, we don't have 5 guys like that on the Mosconi team from this year. We have a couple of young guns who, in general, are happy to be there when they get to the finals of a big event. Of course they want to win.... But are they the personality types to go back home and practice for 14 hours a day a week straight after losing in the quarter finals of the U.S. Open?

I am not so sure.

And therein lies the rub. THAT's what is required for team USA to win. Talents like Shane, Earl, Archer are not made in a week before the Mosconi Cup. They are made starting the day after a big loss. Shane is the only real killer on the team, and it's just too much pressure, as he feels he cannot lose a match for team USA to have even the slimmest chance of a victory.

I think outside of actual competition, some of these killer players can be pretty nice. BUT, when it comes to competition, I think one has to be a bit of an asshole who truly wants to beat the guy down 11-0 and crush their ego.

Because there is not enough events for American players to make a living, they resort to gambling.. And in these gambling matches, they set up long races and ahead sets where a specific individual shot does not matter, in the great big scheme of things.

Our American players need to change up their practice routines and thinking, getting to the point where they simply will not tolerate a missed shot or safety that is makeable. This obsessive-compulsive drive needs to overcome our younger generation if we are to ever develop more truly world class talent.

Yeah, the American pool scene sucks. No money in it, and so most of the young guns are just doing it to have fun and compete before they have to start a real job.And their work ethic reflects that. They are giving something like 80% effort to honing their craft, because that's the (relatively) EASY 80%. But to be truly dominant world-class talents, they need to give the other 20% effort in their training, regardless of what the financial rewards are, or are not.

If these younger players are not willing to give the sort of obsessive-compulsive effort that Shane does, and Strickland/Archer/Varner/Hall did, while understanding they simply are not going to benefit as much financially as the previous generations did, then there is no hope for American pool.

Am I ADVOCATING that they do so? Not really. There's just not enough money in American pool. I am just saying what is necessary for America to compete with Europe/Asia.

Short Bus Russ
 
Last edited:
So.. I've read a few threads and they had some interesting thoughts, but here is my take on it...

What defined the players on the Mosconi Cup teams that won back in the 90s?

They were full of absolute killers who had an unholy hatred of missing balls/selling out on bad safes. Strickland, Archer, Davenport, etc.

To be brutally honest, we don't have 5 guys like that on the Mosconi team from this year. We have a couple of young guns who, in general, are happy to be there when they get to the finals of a big event. Of course they want to win.... But are they the personality types to go back home and practice for 14 hours a day a week straight after losing in the quarter finals of the U.S. Open?

I am not so sure.

And therein lies the rub. THAT's what is required for team USA to win. Talents like Shane, Earl, Archer are not made in a week before the Mosconi Cup. They are made starting the day after a big loss. Shane is the only real killer on the team, and it's just too much pressure, as he feels he cannot lose a match for team USA to have even the slimmest chance of a victory.

I think outside of actual competition, some of these killer players can be pretty nice. BUT, when it comes to competition, I think one has to be a bit of an asshole who truly wants to beat the guy down 11-0 and crush their ego.

Because there is not enough events for American players to make a living, they resort to gambling.. And in these gambling matches, they set up long races and ahead sets where a specific individual shot does not matter, in the great big scheme of things.

Our American players need to change up their practice routines and thinking, getting to the point where they simply will not tolerate a missed shot or safety that is makeable. This obsessive-compulsive drive needs to overcome our younger generation if we are to ever develop more truly world class talent.

Yeah, the American pool scene sucks. No money in it, and so most of the young guns are just doing it to have fun and compete before they have to start a real job.And their work ethic reflects that. They are giving something like 80% effort to honing their craft, because that's the (relatively) EASY 80%. But to be truly dominant world-class talents, they need to give the other 20% effort in their training, regardless of what the financial rewards are, or are not.

If these younger players are not willing to give the sort of obsessive-compulsive effort that Shane does, and Strickland/Archer/Varner/Hall did, while understanding they simply are not going to benefit as much financially as the previous generations did, then there is no hope for American pool.

Am I ADVOCATING that they do so? Not really. There's just not enough money in American pool. I am just saying what is necessary for America to compete with Europe/Asia.

Short Bus Russ

Ok I will start the ball rolling with who oughta be on it.

Svb
Donny mills
Brian parks

Dunno who else at the moment but obviously these 3.

Svb is obvious because he is our best .

Donnie mills is not really a surprise pick because some on here suggested he should have been on this years team.

Brian parks.....well like Donnie he has a full time job. Considering he works full time and has still managed to reach the level of play he has means he obviously has the drive to be the best he can be at the game.

Besides that he has 5 us amateur trophies.....that means he dont like to lose .

The way I see it svb and Brian are in the same stratosphere. Svb has won 5 us opens. Brian has won 5 us amateurs. Who else can match those two. ?
 
Ok I will start the ball rolling with who oughta be on it.

Svb
Donny mills
Brian parks

Dunno who else at the moment but obviously these 3.

Svb is obvious because he is our best .

Donnie mills is not really a surprise pick because some on here suggested he should have been on this years team.

Brian parks.....well like Donnie he has a full time job. Considering he works full time and has still managed to reach the level of play he has means he obviously has the drive to be the best he can be at the game.

Besides that he has 5 us amateur trophies.....that means he dont like to lose .

The way I see it svb and Brian are in the same stratosphere. Svb has won 5 us opens. Brian has won 5 us amateurs. Who else can match those two. ?

I agree that Brian Parks has the will to win, definitely.

Just maybe, like Oscar Dominguez, not quite the technical skills?

Short Bus Russ
 
I agree that Brian Parks has the will to win, definitely.

Just maybe, like Oscar Dominguez, not quite the technical skills?

Short Bus Russ

I really made this post in jest due to all the posts in that us amateur thread .

Ironic that you mention Oscar because that's one of the players Brian beat in that hard times tournament.

One thing In your op that made sense was the 80% vs 100% commitment. I have no idea how commited full time pros are to their game. I would venture to say Donnie and Brian would fall into that 80%...or less category due to both holding full time jobs. Imagine how good they would be if they commited 100% to their game ?
 
I really made this post in jest due to all the posts in that us amateur thread .

Ironic that you mention Oscar because that's one of the players Brian beat in that hard times tournament.

One thing In your op that made sense was the 80% vs 100% commitment. I have no idea how commited full time pros are to their game. I would venture to say Donnie and Brian would fall into that 80%...or less category due to both holding full time jobs. Imagine how good they would be if they commited 100% to their game ?

To be clear, I am talking about the 100% that someone like Appleton gave to the game during his US Open runs... Horribly difficult drills worked until there is just absolutely no doubt on the exact proper stroke/tip position to use on any shot.. Absolute drilling of the basic fundamentals.

I'm not sure if even Shane works on his game to that extent. What I do know is.. No one else in America comes even close to that level of commitment to their fundamentals. And that there are probably tons of players in Asia/Europe that do so.

Short Bus Russ
 
To be clear, I am talking about the 100% that someone like Appleton gave to the game during his US Open runs... Horribly difficult drills worked until there is just absolutely no doubt on the exact proper stroke/tip position to use on any shot.. Absolute drilling of the basic fundamentals.

I'm not sure if even Shane works on his game to that extent. What I do know is.. No one else in America comes even close to that level of commitment to their fundamentals. And that there are probably tons of players in Asia/Europe that do so.

Short Bus Russ

I definitely agree with this post.
 
It's not that the players don't play well as a team, it's that they don't play well individually. Not a one of them. In the past few years -- the only one I can really remember playing truly world class for the US team has been Justin Bergman. The rest of them -- it just seems as if the stage is too big for them and all the accumulated losses have seemed to increase the pressure on them while at the same time the pressure never gets turned up on the Europeans. Sure they feel some pressure here and there and it affects their play but it doesn't snow ball on them because the next guy up doesn't have the weight of all these losses on their shoulders.

Now why can't they handle the stage? The fundamentals things as been beaten to death BUT that's because it's so very true. But it's not just their wonky technique that lets them down every year. Think about it for a second, when you compare this generation's players to yesterday's the glaring difference is the audience they have played in front of. Archer, Strickland, Varner, Sigel, Rempe, and even the beginning of Deuel's career they all got to experience playing in front of big, live, television audiences. There's really no comparison for today's players. This Mosconi Cup is the one event a year where they get to experience this setting and the pressure that comes along with it.

The frustrating part is how so many European players can handle this stage with their limited experience. The reason for that is they don't have years of accumulated losing they are trying to overcome and to a man -- they have better technique. Technique that doesn't let them down under pressure.

I've documented the flaws in our players technique in years past and I don't see the point in going over it again but for anybody that is really a pool junky this stuff jumps off the screen at you. There's one player who's technique I really respect (while not perfect) and that's Justin Bergman. I think there's little surprise that he's been the best US player the last few years.

Ultimately, the reason I think we are falling further behind the Europeans is because kids just aren't getting good instruction at a young age. They are being patted on the head at a young age and they are told that they looking great and encouraged to just make a little tweak here or there. Even on the cover of one of our top US instructor's books there's an image of him cueing where the cue is just flopping in the wind. Compare that to the technique of someone like Mark Gray -- a player that often times is mocked because of his supposed lack of cue power, but he cues as straight as an arrow. We really just need our players to embrace a more rigid cueing style. One that once the player is locked in, they can't cue offline because their body won't allow it.

Oh well. Of course I would love for there to be a resurgence in top flight professional pool in our country but I will say I love the state of the amateur game here in the US. So even if we continue to lose year after year there are still thousands of people out enjoying this game every week with tons of regional tournaments that are a blast to take part in. Things just really aren't that bad here.
 
To be clear, I am talking about the 100% that someone like Appleton gave to the game during his US Open runs... Horribly difficult drills worked until there is just absolutely no doubt on the exact proper stroke/tip position to use on any shot.. Absolute drilling of the basic fundamentals.

I'm not sure if even Shane works on his game to that extent. What I do know is.. No one else in America comes even close to that level of commitment to their fundamentals. And that there are probably tons of players in Asia/Europe that do so.

Short Bus Russ

(I'm using ShortBusRuss's post to make my point)

The question is not WHO from the U.S. is on the Team, the question is WHO is on the European team that is making the difference.

Back in the day, when the U.S. was winning the MC seemingly ad nauseam, the European players weren't quite the players they are today.
I'm not saying that guys like Archer, Strickland, and the myriad picks we made weren't great players (they were indeed), it's just that the old crop of European players weren't playing 9-ball as they do so now.

Couple that with the hard work ethic culture of the old world, and you will indeed produce a better all around player--and a team.

You all can continue to debate who SHOULD be on our U.S. Team, but it's all to no avail. Team Europe has surpassed the U.S. in terms of technical ability, team work, and overall camaraderie.

Will Team Europe continue to produce quality players? Yes.
Can the U.S. win the MC again? Maybe.
 
Gentlemen - One possible reason why the USA are not competitive right now in the Mosconi Cup is right there under your nose!!!

Have a look into the thread "World 9 Ball Championship 2017 (9-14 Dec) ,Doha- Winner $30K" and look for the participiants from the US.

Most of the elite players of the world assemble here. But only 2 players from the US. And arguably not your best.

If the American players don't compete on an international level - how should they ever be competitive? To be amongst the best players of the US counts a lot
... inside the country
... but not very much in the rest of the world.

If you want to be good - you've got to play with the best ... and think out of the box. ... and don't wait for a miracle.

Just my 2 cents
Gerhard

PS: Just saw Jason Shaw go down, damn good players there in Doha
 
Last edited:
Back
Top