can you pm me a you tube link?
Another observation: PSR
- Thread starter dquarasr
- Start date
Reminds me of the concept of "anchors" for accessing the "flow state" - a special phrase, gesture, thought, etc. that you repeat while in the zone until it becomes a way to recall it.
pj
chgo
Quoted from
Get Into The Flow State Now! - Mindset Mental Coaching
The Flow State helps in many areas of life. Maximize your performance in your sport, work or life by getting into the Flow State on command!
mindsetmentalcoaching.com
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Reminds me of the concept of "anchors" for accessing the "flow state" - a special phrase, gesture, thought, etc. that you repeat while in the zone until it becomes a way to recall it.
pj
chgo
Quoted fromGet Into The Flow State Now! - Mindset Mental Coaching
The Flow State helps in many areas of life. Maximize your performance in your sport, work or life by getting into the Flow State on command!
View attachment 669909
The funny thing is, too many people think this type of mental skill is similar to the "feel good" self-help stuff, like reciting positive affirmations or self-hypnotism or whatever. And though there is some research showing that these things can be beneficial (positive reinforcement/encouragement), it is not the same as learning how to control your mindset.
In other words, repeatedly telling yourself you're great might make you feel good, and it might temporarily boost your confidence, but it won't magically put you in the zone. Being able to control your mindset, however, will certainly help you find the zone more easily and more often.
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I did a significant amount of research on this over the years, and the one that always jumps to my mind is the experiments with Russian weightlifters. Although an athlete can't bring on the zone on demand, they can increase the possibility it will occur by increasing their ALPHA brainwaves.
The Russians, with the use of biofeedback devices, put their weightlifters into ALPHA states prior to stepping out into competition. This seemed to have brought out their peak performances with relative ease. Afterwards, some of them couldn't remember lifting. This is a typical reaction from being in the zone. Anyone who's ever played pool in the zone, has trouble afterwards recalling details of the match.
In our Pool School we teach that there are three shot routines we must train and follow. When a student starts doing this, they have a chance to play very well.
THINK
AIM
DO
THINK
AIM
DO
That's the secret to meditation and breathing exercises - puts the mind in a better place for creative and constructive thought.
In the "Playing to Win" book, there's a chapter titled, "You Can't Be on Fire All the Time". It basically talks about regression to the mean, how we typically perform at our average, sometimes better, sometimes worse, and occasionally hitting our best or rock bottom performance.
Anyhow, I added this venn diagram to the end of that chapter. It shows 3 elements needed for any experienced player to catch fire at any time (play at peak performance). When all three of these systems/elements are functioning smoothly together, we give ourselves the best chance of finding the zone, playing at our peak level.
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WobblyStroke
Well-known member
As others have mentioned, the more reps you have doing something, the less you consciously think about it. Tor Lowry has a good breakdown of this in his YouTube vid on automatic aiming in which he splits things players do at the table into conscious/subconscious and discusses how things we first have to consciously focus on can become fully automatic over time and to a greater degree than most players would ever consider giving up conscious control over.
What the studies I referenced referred to were really the execution of strokes and how they are aided by focusing on the objective of the shot rather than internally focusing on what every little body part needs to do and when it needs to do it. Looking at your 4 examples.....
1+4. These occur before execution and is part of 'getting yourself into the right position before action' as BC originally pointed out in the post that I elaborated on in my post that you quoted. You should def drill your approach into your shot in practice and be pretty deliberate in how you set your feet Also, finding a feel or checkpoint to make sure your head position and alignment is consistent, giving you the same vantage point to view shots from, is also part of this setup programming to focus on in practice. As you shoot 1000+ balls, locating your shot line, placing your back foot on it, stepping in parallel and getting down on the shot with your head coming str8 down to a consistent level relative to the cue/shot line (or whatever the particular steps you take for your setup are), doing anything else begins to look/feel wrong and that feeling signals you need to start over. That is the next phase. After a while of that all those little steps will just happen, not any different than all the focus you need when learning to drive as you pay attention to every little thing you do and a year later you can get lost in thought on the way home and snap out of it in your driveway wondering how you even made it home. But again, feet/head placement happen before any execution so thinking about them doesn't really interfere with performance....it just becomes a waste of mental energy over time.
3. It would be best if you found a move you could incorporate into your preshot routine that sets your grip how you like it BEFORE you get down. You shouldn't really be fiddling around with the grip once down. Though I will say I have a student now that does something great to fine tune her tension level and placement on the cue just as she gets down and when I asked her about it she had no idea she was doing it at all....she has played about 20-30hours of pool total, so this can become subconscious in a hurry.
2. This intense thinking of elbow up, quiet shoulder while down or even worse, while performing the stroke, is exactly the type of internally focused thinking that will hurt performance. I'm not saying drop your elbow and be wild with your shoulder. Just, saying that the shoulder should be locked down by your stance. There are several ways to find the right arm/body setup FOR YOU and some setups (square vs more angled) will be better suited to different grips/deliveries. A skilled instructor can help you navigate this and make sure you aren't doing the classic golf mistake of mixing and matching great tips intended for different types of strokes and setting yourself up for disaster. I mentioned in my original post that my PSR involves movements that set up desired relationships between body parts for me. I make one move that presets my grip, grip tension, and arm/body relationship that I prefer. Find something similar so you don't need to think about the shoulder and elbow when down, esp not when stroking. The execution of the stroke should absolutely not be micromanaged by the conscious mind when performing. Back to my newbie student....she has no idea how she strokes the cue, but she delivers the cue beautifully. Not saying anyone can get there 30hrs in as she is a gifted mover in general and has had a steep learning curve her whole life when it comes to movement. But I'm just emphasizing just how soon things can become subconsciously controlled.
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
HOLY TEXT WALLS, BATMAN! ^^^
Since we've veered off topic into Zoneland, here's a list of the comments made about the Zone in a thread about 10 years ago. (The "Resources" list at the bottom might be the most useful part.)
pj
chgo
pj
chgo
What out of this list --- if anything --- helped you the most over the last 10 years?
The "Resources" list - specifically Fancher's "Pleasures of Small Motions" and his advice to focus on the process rather than the outcome.
pj
chgo
You didn't already know that?
Yes, even before reading Pleasures, although that articulated it for me, which helped. I think it's one of the most valuable principles - still helps me.
pj
chgo
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filerunner
New member
Yes, lack of confidence or trying too hard to control, causes a lot of suffering. I remember when I was taking piano lessons, I knew how to read the music and I knew the notes on the keyboard, but I was thinking so hard to keep from making mistakes, it sometimes seemed as though my hands wouldn't move.
dquarasr
Registered
TLDR: OP appreciates the discussion on unconscious vs conscious. OP played HORRIBLY in a tournament on Saturday. Gutted. Today OP tried with pretty good success: think standing, get down, shoot abandoning any thinking. Thinking while down? Stand up and start over.
So many responses here about getting out of the way of our own shooting. I especially like this one:
I didn't play after I got home Saturday. I didn't play yesterday. I unsubbed from many pool groups on FB. A bit of an extreme reaction, certainly, but I needed to quit thinking about it.
Tossed and turned last night. I was so discombobulated on Saturday that I screwed up a certain win. 6-ball hanging in the corner pocket. 8-ball on the short rail in the opposite corner along the same short rail, long way between CB and 6. Opposition had one ball remaining dead center of the table. Easy, right? Roll the CB, tap in the 6, perfect for the 8. What did I do? Hit it so freaking hard, the CB went two rails to the opposite side of the table, of course, directly behind the only stripe. WTF? I even asked aloud at one point during the match "HAS ANYONE SEEN DOUG? TELL HIM HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE HERE FOR THIS TOURNAMENT!" During the tossing and turning, I thought back to my bowling career. For the first few years, I got on the lane, and stood like a statue thinking about what I had to do. And stood there. And stood there. Eventually, I changed my thought approach. I'd think about what I needed to do off the lane. I'd step onto the lane, put my fingers in the ball, put my feet in position, and go. IMMEDIATELY. My average went up 20 pins very soon thereafter to mid-20x. Hmm. How can I translate that to pool?
Just now I tried what people have been trying to tell me. Think about the shot while standing: tip contact point on the CB, and speed. With little thought, place feet. Put the cue on the line while stepping into the shot and get down. Feather, feather, shoot. If I caught myself doing ANY kind of thinking while down, I stood up.
I shot about 10 racks, just shooting balls in randomly. I can't profess to have made all 150 balls, but I sure as heck had three or fewer misses per rack, with a few racks zero misses. This is about as well as I have ever shot 10 racks. So I'm going to keep this up and see if I can learn to trust this process.
So many responses here about getting out of the way of our own shooting. I especially like this one:
Anyways, I played in a Toys For Tots tournament on Saturday. I was atrocious. I mean, truly, truly bad. I was missing nearly everything. I think my TPA would have been around 20%. In the six Scotch racks we played (first loss 0-3, second loss 1-2), I think I made about a handful shots. I was confused, gutted, embarrassed. I got home, put the cover on my pool table, put my sticks, cases, etc., in my closet and seriously questioned why I was even trying to get better.
I didn't play after I got home Saturday. I didn't play yesterday. I unsubbed from many pool groups on FB. A bit of an extreme reaction, certainly, but I needed to quit thinking about it.
Tossed and turned last night. I was so discombobulated on Saturday that I screwed up a certain win. 6-ball hanging in the corner pocket. 8-ball on the short rail in the opposite corner along the same short rail, long way between CB and 6. Opposition had one ball remaining dead center of the table. Easy, right? Roll the CB, tap in the 6, perfect for the 8. What did I do? Hit it so freaking hard, the CB went two rails to the opposite side of the table, of course, directly behind the only stripe. WTF? I even asked aloud at one point during the match "HAS ANYONE SEEN DOUG? TELL HIM HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE HERE FOR THIS TOURNAMENT!" During the tossing and turning, I thought back to my bowling career. For the first few years, I got on the lane, and stood like a statue thinking about what I had to do. And stood there. And stood there. Eventually, I changed my thought approach. I'd think about what I needed to do off the lane. I'd step onto the lane, put my fingers in the ball, put my feet in position, and go. IMMEDIATELY. My average went up 20 pins very soon thereafter to mid-20x. Hmm. How can I translate that to pool?
Just now I tried what people have been trying to tell me. Think about the shot while standing: tip contact point on the CB, and speed. With little thought, place feet. Put the cue on the line while stepping into the shot and get down. Feather, feather, shoot. If I caught myself doing ANY kind of thinking while down, I stood up.
I shot about 10 racks, just shooting balls in randomly. I can't profess to have made all 150 balls, but I sure as heck had three or fewer misses per rack, with a few racks zero misses. This is about as well as I have ever shot 10 racks. So I'm going to keep this up and see if I can learn to trust this process.
dquarasr
Registered
Status update:
This is working! The shots I’m missing are mostly those I actually caught myself thinking about something, like my aim (does that look right?), or more often thinking about my grip. Sometimes i miss because I probably aligned wrong, and truth is, deep down on those shots i had a nagging feeling and I usually miss the side my gut told me i would. So I’m really trying to be disciplined enough that if ANYTHING feels off, or I’m thinking about any aspect of shot execution while down, to stand back up and start over.
A happy by-product of think, step, down, feather, feather, shoot, is that I’ve noticed my stroke is much more fluid, and my grip much looser, without actually having to focus on such.
Practice, practice, practice.
This is working! The shots I’m missing are mostly those I actually caught myself thinking about something, like my aim (does that look right?), or more often thinking about my grip. Sometimes i miss because I probably aligned wrong, and truth is, deep down on those shots i had a nagging feeling and I usually miss the side my gut told me i would. So I’m really trying to be disciplined enough that if ANYTHING feels off, or I’m thinking about any aspect of shot execution while down, to stand back up and start over.
A happy by-product of think, step, down, feather, feather, shoot, is that I’ve noticed my stroke is much more fluid, and my grip much looser, without actually having to focus on such.
Practice, practice, practice.
The last part of the PSR is the "checkoff point" -- your time to stop left-braining shape, speed and etc. and get down to feel and do/in the zone.
Billiards and golf are static, in other stick-and-ball sports we respond creatively to a moving target. Is there time to tighten on an incoming tennis ball and think overlong about racket angle, grip, etc.?
dquarasr
Registered
Yet another revelation (at least to me) regarding "flow".
This afternoon I threw the balls out there intending to simply shoot them off in random order. The more I played the more I missed. The more I missed, the worse I got. Frustrated, I realized I was "in my own head", so I put down the cue and did something else.
This evening I went back to the table, refreshed and relaxed. I find that I have better sessions if I start them out "grooving my stroke" with rolling CB shots nearly straight in. I was not too careful about putting the CB and OB in a perfect straight line. After about a dozen shots where I split the pocket, with shot angle 5 degrees or so, I carefully set them up in a perfect straight line. I was trying to follow the CB into the pocket.
Guess what? Yes, I'm sure you know. Not only did I fail to follow the CB into the pocket, eventually I started missing the shots completely.
Why? Because I was trying too hard. As soon as I put pressure on myself, I started missing. So I forgot about the result of following the CB into the pocket, and just ensured I aligned properly and relaxed and stroked the ball with as little thought as possible, trusting the process. And again, guess what? Yes, of course you instructors all know, I started making the shots with nearly all of them having the CB follow the OB into the pocket.
Now the trick, the holy grail of pool, will be to learn how to control my thoughts and emotions on all shots, then carry that into competition. At least now I might have a fighting chance since I know what it feels like and what to look for when I am "off". Wish me luck.
This afternoon I threw the balls out there intending to simply shoot them off in random order. The more I played the more I missed. The more I missed, the worse I got. Frustrated, I realized I was "in my own head", so I put down the cue and did something else.
This evening I went back to the table, refreshed and relaxed. I find that I have better sessions if I start them out "grooving my stroke" with rolling CB shots nearly straight in. I was not too careful about putting the CB and OB in a perfect straight line. After about a dozen shots where I split the pocket, with shot angle 5 degrees or so, I carefully set them up in a perfect straight line. I was trying to follow the CB into the pocket.
Guess what? Yes, I'm sure you know. Not only did I fail to follow the CB into the pocket, eventually I started missing the shots completely.
Why? Because I was trying too hard. As soon as I put pressure on myself, I started missing. So I forgot about the result of following the CB into the pocket, and just ensured I aligned properly and relaxed and stroked the ball with as little thought as possible, trusting the process. And again, guess what? Yes, of course you instructors all know, I started making the shots with nearly all of them having the CB follow the OB into the pocket.
Now the trick, the holy grail of pool, will be to learn how to control my thoughts and emotions on all shots, then carry that into competition. At least now I might have a fighting chance since I know what it feels like and what to look for when I am "off". Wish me luck.
If there is any "secret" to achieving peak performance more often, it is this (in bold).
It's also important to develop habits that contribute to improvement.
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