Another pool room closes

[Dan_B]

The Noble Game may seem under arrest for now, the ill of the taker from the makers is the prime sport of today and there’s nothing noble about it, meanwhile, it’s my shot.

Rape is not a recoverable act; Wall Street and the Fed having a useful comrade, the government, are the result to which we live at present. I’m not going to get into the particulars now even though it isn’t complicated. We are told with gas being cheaper than the extorted price of yesterday that all is good now; ask a rape victim if all is good later, now.

The cost of doing business in this town/state has increased substantially, especially in the hospitality sector, to which we the entertained player reside. The mayor has increased his salary 200% and of course, his lawyers also, that give him the protection to carry out these deeds upon the unaware electret.

The cost of foods, labor and utilities with all their various liabilities* that they carry coupled with a customer that had a choice; the minority that showed up is now reaping what it sowed onto the majority.

*Bureaucrats and the useful dependent.

 

[Ranmar]

few people that run pool rooms are good business people. that dooms them.
they have to understand who they are competing with for the dollars of their customers.

they also have to be aggressive in promoting new customers and making repeat customers come more often as well.

i find current practices of places terrible and i travel and play. many places make you put up cash por credit card or drivers license for them to hold. no restaurants or other places require that. it is an insult.

food is mostly crappy overpriced bar greasy prepackaged food. who wants that?
tables are not clean enough and the person behind the counter is not working just handing out balls with no owner to supervise.

few real specials or events to bring in spectators or just fill the place with people. people bring in other people and spend money.

Leagues execute a business model that works. They collect a steady stream of recurring fees from low skilled players. Nothing wrong with this. It creates players, fans, customers. And I don't blame leagues for not giving a **** about anything but continuing to generate a steady stream of recurring fees from low skilled players.

The rest of us need to work towards creating a steady stream of recurring fees from skilled players. Non-league tournaments in America are where pros apply their trade and where the rest of us decent shots get our fix.

Non-league tournament culture might be an industry but we'll never know until we can crowd source fees from it to support it. It needs a central portal where all tournament directors post their events and all players can find, sign up, and see who else is signed up for those events. At that point we have access to every tournament coming up and a list of who is playing is any given tournament.

Now eyeballs are being collected and your eyeballs might generate a few adverts for the site and you might pay a small fee to sign up online. But now you're crowd sourcing. You can't beat the leagues...so join their model.

Build up this other income generating culture being left out to dry on the American pool scene and it will build business for failing rooms.


C'mon, who's with me! This is AZB Forum!! Optimism my fellow time wasters!!!

 

[Banks]

League players are good customers at my home room. They account for a significant part of each week's food and drink sales.

Table time has the biggest profit margin, though (by a long shot), and they don't account for as much of that (they get a deal).

pj
chgo

At my home bar, with four tables, league takes up two of them about three days a week when the two apa teams aren't away. This week they hosted the division playoffs for four teams and the bar was pretty happy. While they don't always spend a lot, they always spend something and attract others to the place. With that said..

I'm not sure the OP knows the full situation. From what i understand, the bills are paid throughout the week, but the profit is made on the weekends. Do people not go there on the weekends?

I think one yelp review said the tables are free with a $10 purchase or at least that was a special. Another part of it said Saturday was the busiest day. Then a yellow pages review or something said it was dead and there was no music.

Something is missing and my guess is the environment.

 

[Nostroke]

Right now the rooms in my town with leagues matches:

1. Pay to sponsor teams
2. Give them free pool
3. Give one free round of drinks

It doesn't make sense. I really want to support the rooms, and I have the money to do so. I just don't drink that much and I don't eat much of the foods they serve. And I'm not going to become a fat alcoholic to support my room.

There has to be a different model. But everything has to be "free" and "added money" in pool - and not just pool. Apps are free but they make money from stupid people buying farms and gems. Google is free but they sell your info to everyone. Phones are free but they don't tell you that you're paying on it every month with your service. Our economy is built on tricks.

How about this: We actually pay for things. If you play in a league, you pay $5 a night to, you know, use their room and tables. If you play in a tournament, they subtract money rather than add it. In return they actually stay in business, and maybe want more leagues, tournaments, and pool players.

It's nuts. My friend owned a pool room in Fla-The leagues didnt pay a thing and for the most part didnt drink. Then one league threatened to leave the room unless they put Simonis on all the tables. He threw that league out and then all the others and said he was better off without them..

 

[Teacherman]

An independent burger joint opened. Great burgers. I frequented it once a week for a couple of months. Got distracted by a project, family and other issues....went back after missing several weeks.....it was closed.

I felt some responsibility. I had a duty to support that business....IF......I wanted that burger to be available regularly.

I am paying the 'want but can't have' price now.

 

[9andout]

I am extremely disappointed and saddened that my "home pool room" is closing. On January 7th, The Corner Pocket in Milford Connecticut will close its doors for good. The big problem seems to be high rents combined with the fact that pool players simply don't spend money in the pool hall (which also, by the way, has a full bar and full kitchen and great food).

I never noticed that the pool players never spent money there. The place would be packed nightly with APA players who thought because they paid their $10 APA dues that they were entitled to hang out all night, playing on all the tables, enjoying the TVs and social experience of a wonderful establishment with fantastic equipment while the owners sit there all night as glorified baby sitters (and baby sitters make more $).

I know the owners well and they truly care about the sport and really care about their customers. They cater to their customers and create an atmosphere and environment that makes you feel like family whenever you step foot in there.

The recurring theme with pool seems to be the lack of money that goes into the sport (at all levels). Hypocritically, the pool players who rarely ate or bought a drink at Corner Pocket will now cry because its closing.

For heaven's sake people, please invest in your local rooms and our sport - have a meal, buy a few drinks (alcoholic or not), purchase that PPV to watch a stream, pay to play in a tournament, go pay to see a live pro tournament, purchase from the advertisers. Support the pros who make this beautiful sport great. For if not, there will be no place to play and no one to watch.

Please don't take your pool hall for granted, nor the sport for that matter.

Thanks for reading and putting up with my rant.
- Steve

Good read. Sux. I support through attendance and PPV's. It's important.
But with my home table I don't get to the local rm much. Gonna change that. But I do wish they ran more tournaments. I will tell them again!
Good luck finding another rm.!

 

[Kevin3824]

At my home bar, with four tables, league takes up two of them about three days a week when the two apa teams aren't away. This week they hosted the division playoffs for four teams and the bar was pretty happy. While they don't always spend a lot, they always spend something and attract others to the place. With that said..

I'm not sure the OP knows the full situation. From what i understand, the bills are paid throughout the week, but the profit is made on the weekends. Do people not go there on the weekends?

I think one yelp review said the tables are free with a $10 purchase or at least that was a special. Another part of it said Saturday was the busiest day. Then a yellow pages review or something said it was dead and there was no music.

Something is missing and my guess is the environment.

It seems to me there is a huge difference between a bar and a pool hall. bars make their money from alcohol and food sales. Bar owners may use a pool table or bar league team as an attraction. A pool hall though has a primary business of selling table time. If they sell food or alcohol a large potion of their prifits will come from there as well. When you think of it though in a pool hall you walk in and pay per person per hour a fee for table time. Usually people play one on one but sometimes they play doubles. Lets figure the average league charges $10 per week to its members an the league ties up the tables for 4 hours if normal table time is $8 per person per hour that is a major loss to the hall in possible fees. Normally each player would be paying $32 for the same table time. Maybe I am missing something major here because of my own lack of knowledge on how leagues work. Granted the leagues will bring players in just as tournaments will but is it cost effective for the pool hall. I also understand offering a discount to league players or returning customers as well it just seems like a huge discount. I also think that leagues should be scheduled for the slowest days and times the halls are open but that will not happen because most players work during the day and are only available at night.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...if normal table time is $8 per person per hour that is a major loss to the hall in possible fees.

Only if the place would be full without the league - if they're playing on a few tables that would otherwise be empty then whatever reduced rate they pay is all gain. Plus leagues have more people around fewer tables, so the food/drinks sales per table is higher.

There are also intangible benefits, like being introduced to a lot of pool players and looking popular and busy.

pj
chgo

 

[Shermanscs]

Pics of the soon to be late great corner pocket...

Predator tour stops at Corner Pocket:

Me (Steve sherman) shooting at Corner Pocket:

The Silent Assassin visits the Corner Pocket:

 

[Banks]

It seems to me there is a huge difference between a bar and a pool hall. bars make their money from alcohol and food sales. Bar owners may use a pool table or bar league team as an attraction. A pool hall though has a primary business of selling table time. If they sell food or alcohol a large potion of their prifits will come from there as well. When you think of it though in a pool hall you walk in and pay per person per hour a fee for table time. Usually people play one on one but sometimes they play doubles. Lets figure the average league charges $10 per week to its members an the league ties up the tables for 4 hours if normal table time is $8 per person per hour that is a major loss to the hall in possible fees. Normally each player would be paying $32 for the same table time. Maybe I am missing something major here because of my own lack of knowledge on how leagues work. Granted the leagues will bring players in just as tournaments will but is it cost effective for the pool hall. I also understand offering a discount to league players or returning customers as well it just seems like a huge discount. I also think that leagues should be scheduled for the slowest days and times the halls are open but that will not happen because most players work during the day and are only available at night.

At $8 per person per hour, I'd find something else to do, too.

PJ is spot on. Bring people in, make the place popular and sell, sell, sell. The one hall in town that is doing very well has a bca league that fills it up on Thursdays, plus a bunch more apa teams throughout the week. The other places, not so much.

 

[a1712]

We have 3 extremely well maintained Diamond bar boxes. We use Aramith Tournaments, Delta Elite Racks, tables are cleaned a min. 3x's a week and the balls ran through the Diamond polisher every other day. We are going to do a study to check the feasibility of keeping the pool tables over replacing them with tables where people can sit and actually spend money. We have 12 pool teams that play league pool 4 nights a week and can practice any day of the week for free, except after 6pm Fridays and all day Saturday. When we have Tournaments, we're lucky to get 5-6 people to show up. We have very good food, reasonable drink prices, and my Girls are the best.
So what do you do in a situation such as this? Brian.

 

[Banks]

We have 3 extremely well maintained Diamond bar boxes. We use Aramith Tournaments, Delta Elite Racks, tables are cleaned a min. 3x's a week and the balls ran through the Diamond polisher every other day. We are going to do a study to check the feasibility of keeping the pool tables over replacing them with tables where people can sit and actually spend money. We have 12 pool teams that play league pool 4 nights a week and can practice any day of the week for free, except after 6pm Fridays and all day Saturday. When we have Tournaments, we're lucky to get 5-6 people to show up. We have very good food, reasonable drink prices, and my Girls are the best.
So what do you do in a situation such as this? Brian.

Location? Rates? Specials? Clientele? Imo, you're giving away too much free time. What's the tournament?

 

[classiccues]

Banks, if you went to the movies, its normally 12 to get in, another 10 for the popcorn and soda and the movie runs 1.5 hrs. So going to the movies is almost double the 8 dollars for the same time frame. If people spent that kind of money at the pool room, most would have no issues.

JV (---just a comparison...

At $8 per person per hour, I'd find something else to do, too.

PJ is spot on. Bring people in, make the place popular and sell, sell, sell. The one hall in town that is doing very well has a bca league that fills it up on Thursdays, plus a bunch more apa teams throughout the week. The other places, not so much.

 

[Banks]

Banks, if you went to the movies, its normally 12 to get in, another 10 for the popcorn and soda and the movie runs 1.5 hrs. So going to the movies is almost double the 8 dollars for the same time frame. If people spent that kind of money at the pool room, most would have no issues.

JV (---just a comparison...

Yes and the movie is new and costs millions to make. Making it more expensive to bring additional people is just a bad plan.

 

[a1712]

Location? Rates? Specials? Clientele? Imo, you're giving away too much free time. What's the tournament?

SC Pa, 3 bar boxes .50 a game, food specials every week and we've won the H-D Wing Wars 4 years straight, from 21 to ancient, fight and you're going to jail. Tourneys are a simple double elimination, 8-ball, BCA rules, $10 entry with a total payout. 20 years ago we'd get 20-30 every week, guys would eat and drink. Now, I use to have free pool on Sundays and got tired of the same guys coming in every Sunday and playing pool for 8+hours, not purchasing anything, having the Girls take them pitchers of water all day and leave with out tipping so much as a buck. So I put a $5 min. spending to shoot free pool on Sunday and all the sudden I'm the Anti Christ. Brian.

 

[dnixon]

It's too bad that corner pocket is closing. Bart offered me the room a few weeks ago at a very good price. Just that the rent is way too high. I guess we'll be seeing you at US one good luck to bart and his wife

 

[JasBy]

I think the table time charge is something rooms really need to take into consideration.
While you might be competing against movies and other forms of entertainment, you also have realize what your direct competition is - the bar table.

Using the rates at my local large pool room it's ~$8.00 an hour for one person. This is a reasonable rate because most bar boxes in the area are $1.00 - $1.50 a game. As a player I am 'making money' at that point because I can play a lot more than 5-6 games an hour.
But you go to 2 players and now it's ~$12.00 an hour: still not a bad deal as long as you are both there to play and don't chat it up too much.
You start to run into problems an 3 and especially 4 people - most likely these are your casual Friday and Saturday night players that are looking for a social activity while they are hanging out. Now you are talking $18-$20 an hour to play pool. 4 people playing socially are NOT going to be averaging a 5 minute game of pool, which is what they would need to average less than $1.50 a game. It suddenly becomes much more cost effective for them to go to a bar and play casually on a bar table and spend much less money.

Also I think a great thing to do would be to find a way to introduce more socializing into the casual crowd. A lot of people play pool at the local bar to play other people, put quarters up, challenge themselves, and socialize. This is kind of inhibited at an hourly pool hall because of the pricing system. Perhaps a 'speed dating' (for lack of a better term) event where everyone kicks in $5 for table time and every 10 minutes you switch tables and play a new person casually. This would be a great tool for new leagues and league teams to meet and recruit new players.

 

[klone]

It is no doubt a tough business operating a poolroom.

I believe there are players who'll spend a few more dollars per hour for great equipment and environment to play. Just like there are customers who buy expensive cars and those who buy expensive smartphones repeatedly. Most poolrooms aim to attract the general public because it generates the most sales, at least in the near term: food, drinks, loud music, etc. but then you're competing with bars, restaurants, and clubs. Therefore you cannot price higher. Which results in lower profit margins. And that means less money for equipment upkeep and such, which hardcore players value (the folks willing to spend more money). The cycle repeats until the venue is less of a poolroom and more like any neighborhood bar/restaurant.

I have pondered if a poolroom could be successful if operated like a country club - membership based, great equipment, awesome service. Heck, don't even have a kitchen - save money on food and hiring staff - just partner with the deli/restaurant next door. Use most of the capital to buy and maintain the equipment, and maybe offer some exclusive member services such as free/discounted cue related repairs or services; or even partner with streamers to offer PPV of some tournaments; etc.

Always hate to see a poolroom close... Let's hope a new one opens in its place.


billiards.slack.com/signup
-or-
Request by PM

 

[Banks]

SC Pa, 3 bar boxes .50 a game, food specials every week and we've won the H-D Wing Wars 4 years straight, from 21 to ancient, fight and you're going to jail. Tourneys are a simple double elimination, 8-ball, BCA rules, $10 entry with a total payout. 20 years ago we'd get 20-30 every week, guys would eat and drink. Now, I use to have free pool on Sundays and got tired of the same guys coming in every Sunday and playing pool for 8+hours, not purchasing anything, having the Girls take them pitchers of water all day and leave with out tipping so much as a buck. So I put a $5 min. spending to shoot free pool on Sunday and all the sudden I'm the Anti Christ. Brian.

I hear you on the last one, but you don't need "customers" that spend nothing and require maintenance. One of the places i work with gives an hour, i think it is, to each league player each week of free play. So, two could play for two hours. At a couple locations, there is a reduced hourly rate during the day. Some also include a reduced rate for league players or those that play for the bar. Even if you're charging a couple bucks an hour, it's a deal and they're getting in the habit of reaching into their pockets. A lower entry fee, single game tournament may attract more casual players as well. Heck, maybe even a 3-ball tournament. Rotating games each week? You could afford to kick in a little if you're getting more revenue from the tables. Reduce some of the free play and set aside.. say.. hourly charges for the tournament money. Those are what i can think of off the top of my head. What's the worst that could happen.. you follow through with more seating?

Good luck with the tables and the wings sound great.

 

[Tobermory]

After reading this string through page 3, the next time I go to our wonderful pool room I am going to hug the owner and kiss him on the cheek.