Another stupid idea from me …

T

tim913

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Would it be possible, maybe it already exists, to make a training aid that actually shows you where the CB and OB make contact? I know there are some where you shoot between two points or actually at the OB and it goes in the hole, but there’s some wiggle room between the size of the ball and the size of the pocket.
Let’s say you make a solid color training ball that displays a random red dot on the horizontal axis, you shoot at this red dot and where the CB actually makes contact is displayed as a blue dot, compare the dots and adjust accordingly. It doesn’t matter what aiming system you use to hit this random red dot. Then reset it and start over. Feedback a player needs!
 
tim913 said:
Would it be possible, maybe it already exists, to make a training aid that actually shows you where the CB and OB make contact? I know there are some where you shoot between two points or actually at the OB and it goes in the hole, but there’s some wiggle room between the size of the ball and the size of the pocket.
Let’s say you make a solid color training ball that displays a random red dot on the horizontal axis, you shoot at this red dot and where the CB actually makes contact is displayed as a blue dot, compare the dots and adjust accordingly. It doesn’t matter what aiming system you use to hit this random red dot. Then reset it and start over. Feedback a player needs!
Click to expand...
Maybe those projector things could do it.
 
I’ve thought about this in detail for a long time and there are various challenges, most specifically an orientation reference.

The simplest case is an inert ball with graphics printed on the surface. For example, a line around the equator of the ball with a tick mark every 10 degrees. Since the ball can take orientation with any pitch and roll angle, it is up to the player to manually align the equator parallel to the table surface. You would then need a marking system to create a semi-permanent record of the contact point of the OB and CB, like ink or carbon paper transfer, so that you can inspect after the balls have stopped moving. The player would also need to align either a zero reference tick to a feature on the table like a pocket or the head rail direction, and then read the contact record as an absolute value. The accuracy would be limited to the contact point record width and to the error of the zero tick alignment angle.

Ink / chalk is messy for creating a record. What if we tried a digital method instead?

If you put an accelerometer in a ball, then at rest it can see the direction of gravity with a magnitude of 1G. Since gravity is orthogonal to the table surface, this eliminates the need to manually aligned the ball parallel to the table. However, the accelerometer can not sense where on the table it is or what orientation the ball is in relation to it. Think of staring at your feet in the middle of a field at night in the fog. You won’t know your bearings.

You need some outside observable reference to the table. You can add a magnetometer (compass) to measure your bearings, but this is not very accurate because of the metal construction of buildings and the table itself. You can’t really put a camera inside of the ball to look out and see the table orientation, and you can’t easily use a camera mounted to the table to look at the ball and send orientation info to the ball. So you’re kind of stuck at sea unable to see the sun, not knowing where you are pointing unless you are manually aligned or a reference is presented temporarily, like moving a magnet near the head rail facing side of the ball before every shot (clouds parting and seeing the sun for a brief moment).

Then you hit the ball with the CB and generate 2000Gs of force for 1ms. Your accelerometer needs to capture the direction of that impact with high accuracy which is challenging.

If you can do all of this then you can calculate the exact contact point of ball collisions relative to a target.

I’m working on a product that may be able to at least give you an angle if you manually align it to the center of the pocket, but I haven’t tested the directional precision of that high impulse event and can’t claim it is accurate yet.
 
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Maybe it doesn’t need to actually be a ball at all but a 2 1/4 inch diameter disc suspended above the cloth the exact height of the equator of a ball. Think of a tire hanging horizontally with height adjustment. This small disc would have a target point which could be turned around in any direction, be able to move out of the way when struck and indicate point of CB contact
 
The easiest and fairly accurate thing that I use is an old worn out magic rack. I cut out two holes that are together in one strip of the old rack. Place the object ball on one hole and the other hole is the ghost ball. Gives a quick view of your contact point.
 
Screenshot_20250116-095832.jpg
 
Yeah I still like my idea of a drum sander style ball cleaner … genius! You could use a piece of pvc pipe, put holes along it’s length or large cut out to load balls with sliding closure. Put caps on both ends, one with a pulley attached, add a belt and adjustable speed motor and spin clean. Inside would be lined with microfiber compartments that when dirty could be removed from pvc pipe by taking off one end cap and sliding it out as one sleeve and thrown in washer.
Probably another stupid dea that someone will make big bucks from 😬
Pipe and motor could be enclosed in a pretty oak cabinet
 
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tim913 said:
Maybe it doesn’t need to actually be a ball at all but a 2 1/4 inch diameter disc suspended above the cloth the exact height of the equator of a ball. Think of a tire hanging horizontally with height adjustment. This small disc would have a target point which could be turned around in any direction, be able to move out of the way when struck and indicate point of CB contact
Click to expand...
The problem I see with this is that anything other than a ball as a visual target adds a dimension of abstraction to the practice.
 
yankee817299 said:
The easiest and fairly accurate thing that I use is an old worn out magic rack. I cut out two holes that are together in one strip of the old rack. Place the object ball on one hole and the other hole is the ghost ball. Gives a quick view of your contact point.
Click to expand...
I think he wants to not visualize the contact point, but measure it after a real life collision. With a precision more than that of using a pocket.

I think that the best hands free solution is a high speed expensive camera system.
 
Why do you need anything to show you that? You can tell where it hit by where the ball went. Center shot, if it goes in the middle of the pocket, you hit it in the middle. Ball goes right, you hit too much to the left on the object ball. You can estimate by how much pretty easily by how much you missed.

The issue with aiming systems, training balls, etc.. is that you need to know WHY you missed, not just where you mishit the object ball. Is your arm a bit too high and you accidentally masse the cueball? Are you lined up not on the correct line? Are you swaying your cue to the side during the stroke? Spinning the cueball accidentally and hitting the right spot but throwing the object ball off the pocket line? And not only do you need to know why you missed that single shot, you need to know why you missed all of them, because I guarantee that no player misses shots due to the same issue every time.

If the only reason you, or anyone, missed was because we were aiming at the wrong spot, this game would be easy. The hard part of the game is getting the cueball to that spot and being able to modify that on thousands of different shot angles and situations.
 
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tim913 said:
Would it be possible, maybe it already exists, to make a training aid that actually shows you where the CB and OB make contact? I know there are some where you shoot between two points or actually at the OB and it goes in the hole, but there’s some wiggle room between the size of the ball and the size of the pocket.
Let’s say you make a solid color training ball that displays a random red dot on the horizontal axis, you shoot at this red dot and where the CB actually makes contact is displayed as a blue dot, compare the dots and adjust accordingly. It doesn’t matter what aiming system you use to hit this random red dot. Then reset it and start over. Feedback a player needs!
Click to expand...
Like an object ball with a laser light and a dot on the opposite side? Line up the ball so the laser points at center pocket and aim for the dot 180 degrees away?
 
Not sure why folks have an issue with this idea / concept. ALL feedback is useful in deliberate practice, this included (were it possible, easy, and immediate).

Dave <-- knows the vast majority of folks do not invest in deliberate practice
 
hang-the-9 said:
Why do you need anything to show you that? You can tell where it hit by where the ball went. Center shot, if it goes in the middle of the pocket, you hit it in the middle. Ball goes right, you hit too much to the left on the object ball. You can estimate by how much pretty easily by how much you missed.

The issue with aiming systems, training balls, etc.. is that you need to know WHY you missed, not just where you mishit the object ball. Is your arm a bit too high and you accidentally masse the cueball? Are you lined up not on the correct line? Are you swaying your cue to the side during the stroke? Spinning the cueball accidentally and hitting the right spot but throwing the object ball off the pocket line? And not only do you need to know why you missed that single shot, you need to know why you missed all of them, because I guarantee that no player misses shots due to the same issue every time.

If the only reason you, or anyone, missed was because we were aiming at the wrong spot, this game would be easy. The hard part of the game is getting the cueball to that spot and being able to modify that on thousands of different shot angles and situations.
Click to expand...
I don’t need to know anything. I had a few lower level players try to roll the CB over a dime I placed at the far end of a nine foot table once. They missed it quite a few times .. just a training aid for those who need it or a fire lit under the ass of those who prefer to whine
 
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