Any instruction resources available for playing with an upright stance?

[Lanten77]

Hi, I'm an enthusiastic pool player who loves to practice and work on technique. My big problem is I have fused cervical discs and cervical arthritis. Having to lift my head up with a low stance, even if not very low, gives me a lot of neck pain, and I can't practice nearly as long as I would like. I know the old timers obviously played well with an upright stance. I appreciate all the great AZ, YouTube and written instruction available, but I haven't been able to find any good instruction specific to playing with an upright stance. I know a lot of the instruction for low-head stances can apply in general to both low and high, but it seems there must be some technique specific to upright stances, in particular for the right arm positions and stroke?

Anyone have any suggested reading or video resources that I can look at? Or, even if not actual instruction, if you have any suggestions for any reasonably current/modern pro or Semi-Pro players who play more upright that I can look for video or their matches, that would be great also. Thank you!

 

[boogieman]

Hi, I'm an enthusiastic pool player who loves to practice and work on technique. My big problem is I have fused cervical discs and cervical arthritis. Having to lift my head up with a low stance, even if not very low, gives me a lot of neck pain, and I can't practice nearly as long as I would like. I know the old timers obviously played well with an upright stance. I appreciate all the great AZ, YouTube and written instruction available, but I haven't been able to find any good instruction specific to playing with an upright stance. I know a lot of the instruction for low-head stances can apply in general to both low and high, but it seems there must be some technique specific to upright stances, in particular for the right arm positions and stroke? Anyone have any suggested reading or video resources that I can look at? Thank you!

I am not an instructor. This video of Mosconi shows his method. I know he talked about it some in his books too. I'd imagine there are instructors out there that are knowledgeable about upright stances and what to watch for, hopefully someone with more knowledge knows.

 

[Lanten77]

I am not an instructor. This video of Mosconi shows his method. I know he talked about it some in his books too. I'd imagine there are instructors out there that are knowledgeable about upright stances and what to watch for, hopefully someone with more knowledge knows.

Thanks Boogieman. This is the one video that I have seen. Can't make it look much easier than he does! I am curious to see if there are any slightly more modern players that play upright.

 

[skiergd011013]

I am curious to see if there are any slightly more modern players that play upright.

Mike massey

 

[GoldCrown]

Same needed here. Need a stroke like Fats. Difficult to lean over and look up.

 

[boogieman]

Again, I'm not an instructor. I empathize with your situation, back problems here, and sometimes I have to use multiple "base" stances depending on condition. As a kid I was taught upright because that's how my parents played (as well as most people in a small rural community). An upright stance can obviously work, proved by looking at the greats of the past.

I have noticed one thing, not directly related to an upright stance, but while addressing the ball if you feather the cue it gives you a ton of feedback. IMHO more feedback than even practice strokes. If the tip wavers during the feathering it can be multiple things. Your bridge may be out of line, your grip may be off, wrist twisted, too tight, or the stick may not be online with the shot. It's a good way to tinker but more importantly to confirm if your stick is actually on the shot line and going straight.

Once the feathering looks dead straight/not drifting/wobbling you can do some practice strokes to see that the cue is indeed online and will drive straight through the CB. When doing a practice stroke right before the execution I like to think "deliberate" I pause at the CB, then breath out to let my mind clear, then execute the shot.

If your tip doesn't waver you know your mechanics are working, no matter the height or how you address the ball. It even helps on oddball shots where you have to stretch, or even things like jump shots.

I think all the "textbook" things apply. You want to be balanced, have solid footing, somewhat comfortable or at least neutral feeling to the stance. Watch and analyze old matches, like even black and white era straight pool stuff can be beneficial. It doesn't supersede actual instruction from an instructor but it can be helpful for something to emulate.

 

[bbb]

dont obsess over it
just play

(inside joke...we are friends )

 

[Lanten77]

Same needed here. Need a stroke like Fats. Difficult to lean over and look up.

Hi gold crown, here are a number of suggestions in this Reddit post from someone who was also asking about which players have more upright stances.
https://www.reddit.com/r/billiards/comments/1beb9m2

 

[FranCrimi]

You may find something online in carom instructions, or even watching carom matches. They tend to stand taller. But pool has evolved to low stances. Keep in mind that upright stances were popular in pool when the game they were playing was 14.1, and smaller strokes were used.

With an upright stance, you'll probably have to incorporate some kind of elbow drop into your stroke for anything bigger than a short stroke. Another technique the players who stood tall used to use was wrist-snapping action just at impact when they needed more speed to compensate for the lack of stroke length. It takes practice to get the timing right.

The proper weight distribution also changes a bit with an upright stance. For example: When we stand completely erect, good balance is when our weight is evenly distributed between both legs. The lower we stand and the more we bend over, the more we have to lean back on our back leg to counter the forward lean of our torso, to find balance. So depending on how upright your stance is and how much you bend over, your weight distribution will be somewhere between leaning back and evenly distributed. Whatever you do --- don't lean hard on your bridge hand. It can cause damage to your shoulder and add another issue to your injuries.

Also, your vision of the cue ball in a taller shooting stance changes a bit. Center ball may seem higher than it actually is because you're seeing less of the bottom-half of the ball, so make sure you do some drills so you can adjust your sighting.

Those are the main differences, I think.

 

[3kushn]

My 3C Mentor taught me about standing tall. I did that for many years. With 3C it kinda helps.
It's similar to looking at your shot before getting down.
Standing tall while in a shooting position gives you more of a that birds eye view. Playing 3C, that Birdseye view helps
with visualizing the CB path.

That's not your issue

He also taught me to raise my bridge... Palm off the table, similar to what we do to bridge over a ball. On Most Shots
Fats is the only one I can think of who used this bridge routinely.

Sang Lee stood tall but I don't think he used a fingertip bridge unless necessary. He stood tall although.

As Fran says, your perception of where your tip is landing on the CB will need to be practiced when standing tall.
As you noted many if not most of the very old timer Champions stood tall. To me that means there's nothing wrong with it.

Since you like to practice, this shouldn't be a problem.

 

[BilliardsAbout]

Hi, I'm an enthusiastic pool player who loves to practice and work on technique. My big problem is I have fused cervical discs and cervical arthritis. Having to lift my head up with a low stance, even if not very low, gives me a lot of neck pain, and I can't practice nearly as long as I would like. I know the old timers obviously played well with an upright stance. I appreciate all the great AZ, YouTube and written instruction available, but I haven't been able to find any good instruction specific to playing with an upright stance. I know a lot of the instruction for low-head stances can apply in general to both low and high, but it seems there must be some technique specific to upright stances, in particular for the right arm positions and stroke?

Anyone have any suggested reading or video resources that I can look at? Or, even if not actual instruction, if you have any suggestions for any reasonably current/modern pro or Semi-Pro players who play more upright that I can look for video or their matches, that would be great also. Thank you!

You need not be chin atop cue--a player can perform well with their head as high as two feet above the cue stick. Post some video footage or photos and several folks will offer more specific advice.

 

[evergruven]

not an instructor
I recall watching a (instructional?) minnie fats vid where he's older, playing upright, but still firing them in
it can be done..I've messed with playing standing up myself, shooting with the bird's eye view was kinda cool

 

[Bob Jewett]

... . I know the old timers obviously played well with an upright stance. ,,,

There were some old timers who played remarkably upright, such as Jimmy Moore, but here are Mosconi and Caras and they are only a little higher than modern players. (And probably much lower than your neck will take.)

I don't think there is any special technique to help. Do you ever work on specific shots you have trouble with?