Any shrinks in here?

Here is my take on this.

Playing someone who is 1/2 to1 level better helps. It is close enough where you have a chance to win some games, yet you must play your best to have a shot at winning. Excellent way to improve.

Getting killed by someone a lot better, where every miss means racking doesn't help if anything it is just torture. The only way to turn this into a positive is to observe the other player and ask him/her questions. You cannot do that with everyone and certainly not while playing for money. In a case where D or C player is facing an average B player it probably is not such a great idea to learn from him either. Odds are that a guy who has played pool for 10 years without getting better has a lot of problems with his game.

I don't believe that players just starting their pool life benefit from playing for cash either. I used to play once in a blue moon just with friends. I remember running into weak players who wanted to play for cash and tried to hustle. They always would say something stupid like 'it will improve your game'. My usual answer was 'I don't play league, tournaments, don't practice and don't give a shit in general so why would giving money to you help my game?'. Everything has its place and time in development.

When I got serious about pool and started working on my game those same weak hustlers would flock to me to play for cash. At first they would take a little here and there, sooner or later I would start beating them consistently. To me everything is a step on the road of improvement. Anyway, once their victory was no longer certain, those same COWARDS would no longer think that giving away money was the way to improve. Those same guys will not come anywhere close to putting up 20 bucks even when I?m offering ridicules odds.

My game has improved more than 200% in the last year and a half. I'm a bit of a maniac completely addicted to the game, lessons, practice, league, tournaments, reading, money games. I have had the great fortune of learning the game from very strong players. When I walked into the pool hall it took me 2 months to win my first match in a tournament. I now win those same tournaments often enough, mostly coming out 2nd or 3rd. Many of my opponents are strong A+ & A players, majority B+, B. Defeating my mentors and seeing the progress has been a great fuel to increase my desire. A couple of days ago a very nice older man and a deadly player who was nice enough to play and show me things at the beginning said 'I knew you got better but I'm AMAZED at how much!!!'.
I played well that day and had many EROs. I simply said 'thank you, it means a lot to me'.

The satisfaction from making nice shots regardless if there is money on the table or not is its own reward. Playing for cash can bring the best out of you but so can love of the game.
 
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Wolven said:
Here is my take on this.

Playing someone who is 1/2 to1 level better helps. It is close enough where you have a chance to win some games, yet you must play your best to have a shot at winning. Excellent way to improve.

Getting killed by someone a lot better, where every miss means racking doesn't help if anything it is just torture. The only way to turn this into a positive is to observe the other player and ask him/her questions. You cannot do that with everyone and certainly not while playing for money. In a case where D or C player is facing an average B player it probably is not such a great idea to learn from him either. Odds are that a guy who has played pool for 10 years without getting better has a lot of problems with his game.

I don't believe that players just starting their pool life benefit from playing for cash either. I used to play once in a blue moon just with friends. I remember running into weak players who wanted to play for cash and tried to hustle. They always would say something stupid like 'it will improve your game'. My usual answer was 'I don't play league, tournaments, don't practice and don't give a shit in general so why would giving money to you help my game?'. Everything has its place and time in development.

When I got serious about pool and started working on my game those same weak hustlers would flock to me to play for cash. At first they would take a little here and there, sooner or later I would start beating them consistently. To me everything is a step on the road of improvement. Anyway, once their victory was no longer certain, those same COWARDS would no longer think that giving away money was the way to improve. Those same guys will not come anywhere close to putting up 20 bucks even when I?m offering ridicules odds.

My game has improved more than 200% in the last year and a half. I'm a bit of a maniac completely addicted to the game, lessons, practice, league, tournaments, reading, money games. I have had the great fortune of learning the game from very strong players. When I walked into the pool hall it took me 2 months to win my first match in a tournament. I now win those same tournaments often enough, mostly coming out 2nd or 3rd. Many of my opponents are strong A+ & A players, majority B+, B. Defeating my mentors and seeing the progress has been a great fuel to increase my desire. A couple of days ago a very nice older man and a deadly player who was nice enough to play and show me things at the beginning said 'I knew you got better but I'm AMAZED at how much!!!'.
I played well that day and had many EROs. I simply said 'thank you, it means a lot to me'.

The satisfaction from making nice shots regardless if there is money on the table or not is its own reward. Playing for cash can bring the best out of you but so can love of the game.
Click to expand...

I love this post, thanks for sharing that. +rep
 
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I can't believe what I'm reading losing to any one shouldn't make you feel good. Match up the best you can an play your hardest an you've done all you can. If you match up with someone an you never get to shoot what are you learning? You should be learning you need to match up better. If you want to learn from superior players watch two of them play its free unless you bet on the side an thats not a bad thing to do. It will teach you how to match up an handicap.
Pinocchio
 
I never consciously went out of my way to play better players, but I got pretty good anyway. I attribute this to:

1. Books
2. One or two house boys who were willing to teach
3. Playing the table and not worrying about who I'm up against.

The more I play, the more 'real' 3 has become to me. I used to really care about winning and I could only pretend that it didn't matter who I was facing. Now I play 9 year girls and stronger A players the exact same way. I just try to play correctly and run out every rack that seems runnable to me.

The trick is to play anyone you want, but make your goal running out rather than winning. It changes the perspective completely... you 'win' if you run out and you 'lose' if you don't run out. By sticking to this way of thinking, you'll always have a goal - to run every possible rack. If you stick to thinking about winning or losing, you will find yourself with either an unrealistic goal (in the case of trying to beat someone several speeds above you) or a useless one (in the case of slaughtering inferior players). But if you can't run out, or only get out 1 out of 10 times... then you will always have something useful to work towards (i.e. running 2/10, then 5/10, then 8/10, etc.)

This way of thinking has helped me a lot. I find that the actual winner or loser of the game might as well be a coin flip and I get upset very rarely when I lose. I just pay attention to whether I put enough honest mental and physical effort into the game.

One more thing... you don't magically soak up skill just watching better players, no matter how intently you focus on them... you usually have to understand what you're seeing before it's much use to you. That's not to say it's useless through, if the person you're watching (or a knowledgeable friend) can explain it. Watching costs nothing and you don't have to be the pro's opponent to watch. You can watch two pros battle and get twice the benefit for free without putting yourself through the torture of getting beat over and over. So don't think you have to play against someone just to get the benefit of watching them.

If you still feel like playing against pros, and you want to get something out of it, just test the waters this way: wait until you're in a weird, difficult situation and you're stumped about how to play it. Ask the other guy what he would do. If he seems to give a legit and thoughtful answer (especially if he suggest a safe that will leave him well-hooked) then you can probably learn from that player. If he just says "I dunno, play it however you think" then you probably can't.
 
nope

poolchic said:
Does losing to better players make you better.... really?:confused:
Click to expand...

In one simple word, NO. The only way to improve your "game", is to practice AND watch how "better than you" players play certain shots you are having problems with, or need some help with. Maybe they move the cueball better than you do because they know HOW to get from point A to point B easier than you do. This "game" is a constant learning endeavor, nothing to do about that...You just have to accept the fact that there will ALWAYS be someone out there that plays better than you, and strive to play to the BEST of your ability every chance you get. While playing better players is commonly associated with improvement, I have to disagree with that statement. YES, you CAN learn from better players by playing with them or just watching them play someone else, but ultimately, just playing them will end up in you losing alot of $$. I know, I've done it many times!! You need to watch how they play certain shots, and figure out why they do some of the things they do, or just try to get this person to help you. Most guys will talk with you and explain certain things, but will only show you if you're giving them something in return, like money :eek: Try finding someone who's close to your speed, but a little above you, and learn as much as you can from them by playing them, at least you have a chance against them. Playing someone who's WAAAY better than you is a waste of time, money, and all that accomplishes is getting you frustrated...So take your time and play lesser players, but still better than you, and learn as much as you can. Good luck!
 
I think SJM has the best answer to date, with variations by other people. I had not thought about it but it is true. Playing with some one at your speed who has the same interest in the game as you do makes both of you play better.

I think it is quite often true that when you find a world class miler or a good ball player, they have a friend who is nearly as good. The two players push each other to do better than last time and this keeps their interest and accelerates the learning because there is so much more fun.

The other alternative is a good coach who helps at every step of the way. I was a diving champ when I was a kid and I was invited to the Olympic tryouts at the time (got sick and did not make it to Chicago). I know now the two major driving forces in my life at that time were two friends who were equally as crazy on a diving board and my coach who seemed to be more obsessed than I was at the time.

Of the three my coach was undoubtedly the most influential as he was always looking for ways to make my diving better. From the sidelines and with his knowledge he could see every little thing that I could do to make the effort better.

A coach is probably the best you can do to become a truly world class player. Jasmin seems to be a good example here. Obviously there are other ways, but a coach is probably the best.
 
I don't think that losing to better players necessarily makes me a better player. However, I am sure that competing against better players makes me a better player.
Ideally, I search for better players to play against if:
(1.) They are willing to play for free or for a minimal wager.
(2.) They are willing to help me in my quest for improvement.

Through the years I've discovered that winning and losing should not be the goal. Perfection should be the goal. I've played like a dog and won and other days I have played real good and lost.

Several years ago, I played Nick Varner. He beat me 7-5 in 9ball.
I'll always remember is as one of my greatest victories!
 
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