Anyone ever see this one pocket rule used?

jjr183

jjr183

Jamie Ruff
Silver Member
I was just looking at the BCA rules for One Pocket and was surprised to see this rule under 'Rules of Play':

5. When a player has the cue ball in hand behind the head string (as after a scratch) and all object balls are
also behind the head string, the object ball nearest the head string may be spotted upon request. If two or
more balls are an equal distance from the head string, the highest numbered ball is spotted.
Click to expand...

I assume this could only happen during an up-table game with the scratching player not having made any balls yet. The rule makes sense and is consistent with the rules for other games, but I was just wondering if anyone has seen this situation and if the incoming player was aware that he could do this.
 
I've had to use that rule a couple of times. It's most likely to happen with either a severely handicapped game, or with old school players who like to play the wedge game.
 
jjr183 said:
I was just looking at the BCA rules for One Pocket and was surprised to see this rule under 'Rules of Play':



I assume this could only happen during an up-table game with the scratching player not having made any balls yet. The rule makes sense and is consistent with the rules for other games, but I was just wondering if anyone has seen this situation and if the incoming player was aware that he could do this.
Click to expand...

Certainly. Again, basic One Pocket. I'm surprised so many people keep coming up with rules they aren't familiar with that are pretty basic to the game.
 
jjr183 said:
I was just looking at the BCA rules for One Pocket and was surprised to see this rule under 'Rules of Play':



I assume this could only happen during an up-table game with the scratching player not having made any balls yet. The rule makes sense and is consistent with the rules for other games, but I was just wondering if anyone has seen this situation and if the incoming player was aware that he could do this.
Click to expand...
Not often, since a BIH fould results in spotting a ball, so something would be on the foot spot - unless there is nothing to spot. As you noted, this only occurs when playing an up-table game, and the fouling player has no balls. Generally, this means there are 8+ balls in the kitchen.

Go ahead an go to the bar, you're in for a long game...

-td
 
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wow, ive never heard of this rule. I guess you learn something new everyday.

Another reason why AZBers are the best.
 
Tom In Cincy said:
14.1 also has this rule.
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And it's far more common in 14.1 -- it came up last week in league. As for one pocket, I don't think I've ever seen the rule used.

This thread brings up an important point again: if you want a significant advantage over your opponents, read the rules. Most of them haven't.
 
td873 said:
Not often, since a BIH fould results in spotting a ball, so something would be on the foot spot - unless there is nothing to spot. As you noted, this only occurs when playing an up-table game, and the fouling player has no balls. Generally, this means there are 8+ balls in the kitchen.

Go ahead an go to the bar, you're in for a long game...

-td
Click to expand...

Yup, I'm not all there today, forgot about the ball on the spot:(
 
jjr183 said:
I was just looking at the BCA rules for One Pocket and was surprised to see this rule under 'Rules of Play':



I assume this could only happen during an up-table game with the scratching player not having made any balls yet. The rule makes sense and is consistent with the rules for other games, but I was just wondering if anyone has seen this situation and if the incoming player was aware that he could do this.
Click to expand...
All the years playing 1 pocket, I'm not sure if this has ever come up. If it has I sure didn't know that rule. Good thing to know.
 
You shoot the object ball and it knocks in your opponents ball and then the object ball goes off the table.

I say you owe a ball and spot that one and the object ball, the ball pocketed in your opponents pocket stays down.

Others say you spot the object ball, opponents ball, and a ball for the foul.

I say you cannot punish the opponent for a foul that he did not make.
 
Casey said:
You shoot the object ball and it knocks in your opponents ball and then the object ball goes off the table.

I say you owe a ball and spot that one and the object ball, the ball pocketed in your opponents pocket stays down.

Others say you spot the object ball, opponents ball, and a ball for the foul.

I say you cannot punish the opponent for a foul that he did not make.
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You are right, and the "others" are wrong. Only cue ball scratches and jumps result in the opponents ball coming back up. In your scenario, the jumped object ball spots, and the shooter owes one, but the opponent's ball counts. Now, only if the cue ball also jumped the table would you spot all 3 balls.

[Note that, in some places, jumping an OB is not a foul. In those places, only the jumped ball would be spotted - with no penalty ball for the shooter. This, however, is not the BCA or current 1-h rule on jumped balls.]


-td
 
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Tom In Cincy said:
14.1 also has this rule.
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I knew about that one since I have actually seen it come up and according to what the commentators said on the Efren/Bustamante exhibition at Derby City last year it also applies to Rotation. I guess I just play 1-pocket too aggressively to allow myself or my opponent to get in this situation.

Before 9-ball went to 'Texas Express' style didn't they also use this one for the lowest numbered ball? What about 8-ball back when you always had to shoot from the "kitchen" after any scratch with all the balls above the head string? Before all the games went to ball-in-hand I know that things were a lot different then. I may have to buy a BCA rulebook from the 80's out of curiosity to see how much things have changed since then...
 
Bob Jewett said:
This thread brings up an important point again: if you want a significant advantage over your opponents, read the rules. Most of them haven't.
Click to expand...

I think I may have to carry a current rule book with me so I can properly defend my point when I try to invoke something like this. Some people may try to intimidate you out of calling it, although I find this is not true of players who play one-pocket and 14.1 continuous; their a much more gentlemanly crowd in my opinion:) .
 
Here is another interesting rule that perhaps could use some discussion:

4. Balls pocketed by a shooter in an opponent's target pocket are scored for the opponent, even if the stroke
was a foul, but would not count if the cue ball should scratch or jump the table. However, if the stroke is
not a foul and the shooter pockets a ball(s) in both target pockets, the shooter's inning continues, with all
legally pocketed balls scored to the appropriate player. If a shooter pockets a ball that brings the
opponent's score to the number opponent needed to win the game, the shooter has lost unless the cue
ball scratches or jumps off the table.
Click to expand...

In cases where a player intentionally pushes through in an illegal fashion or double hits the cue ball in order to clear his opponents pocket they might try to argue that the potted ball should be pulled out with one of his and he might be able to BS his opponent into actually allowing it. After reading this rule I will not be susceptible to such an arguement! Maybe 10 minutes ago, but not anymore.

Since this involves pocketing a ball we're obviously not talking table scratches here;) .
 
jjr183 said:
Here is another interesting rule that perhaps could use some discussion:



In cases where a player intentionally pushes through in an illegal fashion or double hits the cue ball in order to clear his opponents pocket they might try to argue that the potted ball should be pulled out with one of his and he might be able to BS his opponent into actually allowing it. After reading this rule I will not be susceptible to such an arguement! Maybe 10 minutes ago, but not anymore.

Since this involves pocketing a ball we're obviously not talking table scratches here;) .
Click to expand...

There was recently a thread about this very issue. The classic situation for this is when your opponent needs one, has one in the jaws, and a ball midtable they could easily shoot from the kitchen. The move is to make the ball using a push stroke, call the foul on yourself, and hope your opponent doesn't know the rules. I've had several old timers try that one on me.

The one pocket rule I've seen the most arguments about is this one-

3.2 In the event that a player pockets both their own game winning ball, and their opponent?s game winning ball, both on the same legal stroke, then the shooting player wins. There are no ?ties?, and it does not matter which ball drops first, as long as they both drop as a result of the same stroke.
 
jjr183 said:
I was just looking at the BCA rules for One Pocket and was surprised to see this rule under 'Rules of Play':



I assume this could only happen during an up-table game with the scratching player not having made any balls yet. The rule makes sense and is consistent with the rules for other games, but I was just wondering if anyone has seen this situation and if the incoming player was aware that he could do this.
Click to expand...
different game but i had a similar thing happen today playing a 10-ball ring game...8,9,10 left on table..player 1 scratched and 8 hung up in corner pocket in the kitchen..player1 picks it up to spot it but player 2 says "wait!" and wants to leave it there to kick at it...player 1 says no it automatically spots up...which is right?
 
deadwhak said:
different game but i had a similar thing happen today playing a 10-ball ring game...8,9,10 left on table..player 1 scratched and 8 hung up in corner pocket in the kitchen..player1 picks it up to spot it but player 2 says "wait!" and wants to leave it there to kick at it...player 1 says no it automatically spots up...which is right?
Click to expand...

Any balls in the kitchen spot, this is a no-brainer.

As far as OP, yes I've seen it, though it's not very common.

I tried to learn every rule when I first started playing/gambling.... it's amazing how little players actually know as far as rules go, so I still have to go over rules before playing for anything serious with just about anyone I play.
 
in all the gambling i've done( about 50 years worth), we always play fouls on the cue ball only. if the cue ball stays on the table no foul, just spot the one that jumped and go from there.
 
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