Anyone here plays 6 pocket?

F

Fastolfe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was looking the rules of the game at http://www.6pocketleague.com/ and I'd like to make sure I understand: in a nutshell, you break - if you break like crap it doesn't matter. In fact, scratching rewards you with ball in hand behind the head string - then you sink balls you call until you miss or run out, then you stop, the number of balls down is your score, balls are re-racked and your opponent plays. You and your opponent do that a bunch of times, and after the game is over, you get to be compared to shite players who benefit from the handicap system.

Correct me if I'm wrong, and no offense to those who like it, but this must be the stupidest form of pool ever. I thought 9-ball was dumb, but this takes the cake: there is no concept of safety play, no concept of proper breaking, no concept of shared play time trying to solve the same problem (the ball's configuration on the table), players have to re-rack after each inning, and if you spent time training to become a decent player, you get dragged down to the level of Joe Beginner by the craptastic handicap system.

Sheesh. Someone please enlighten me on the value of 6 pocket. I can't believe someone created something this daft; I must be missing something crucial here...
 
6 pocket is a great game. It makes you shoot. You miss your turn is over. Theres no luck shots like in 9 ball or APA rules. You call all shots. If you scratch on the break thats a 1 point penaltie. So if you run out your total scroe is 14. 6 pocket is a great game for all skill levels.
 
southernhustler said:
6 pocket is a great game. It makes you shoot. You miss your turn is over. Theres no luck shots like in 9 ball or APA rules. You call all shots. If you scratch on the break thats a 1 point penaltie. So if you run out your total scroe is 14. 6 pocket is a great game for all skill levels.
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You can get lucky just like in 8-ball or 14.1, if you pocket in the called pocket. As for a one point penalty if you scratch on the break, the 6pocketleague.com site doesn't say anything about this.

But what's really damning about this game is that it's completely antisocial. You might as well play all your games alone on your own table, and your opponent his games on another table. You don't even have to do it on the same day. Then clever math ensues to call it a match, and between completely uneven skills no less. Plus, the complete lack of strategy throws away a lot of the interest of a pool game.

To me, a game of pool (or carom, or snooker) is playing *someone*. Your opponent leaves you in a pickle, you do your best to get out of it. You lose your speed because you see the guy move and ruin your clever positions, you get back at the table, make a great shot, get back in position, and then *they* start feeling down, etc... It's a game of chess and a game of poker, as well as game of skills. Sitting for 30 minutes in anguish watching the guy almost run out, then get back at the table and win against all odds, feeling elated and drained at the same time, is part of what makes billiard a great game. Whoever invented 6 pockets apparently considers all these aspects of the game something to get rid of, and that's completely wrong.

Re 3 ball or cutt throat, everybody knows they are betting games, not to be taken too seriously. Nobody claims they are "the future of billiard" and "changing billiards one rack at a time", like the 6 pocket folks do. 6 pocket may be amusing, in fact I will try it later tonight at the pool hall to see if it really is, but it's hardly as rich a game as straight pool, or even 8 ball.

This said, if you like 6 pocket, more power to you. Better play a game of pool - even amputated of half of what makes it fun - than watching TV...
 
Fastolfe said:
You can get lucky just like in 8-ball or 14.1, if you pocket in the called pocket. As for a one point penalty if you scratch on the break, the 6pocketleague.com site doesn't say anything about this.

But what's really damning about this game is that it's completely antisocial. You might as well play all your games alone on your own table, and your opponent his games on another table. You don't even have to do it on the same day. Then clever math ensues to call it a match, and between completely uneven skills no less. Plus, the complete lack of strategy throws away a lot of the interest of a pool game.
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How do you get lucky making a ball in a called pocket???? I don't know how social you are but this game is definitely not antisocial. Just because you are playing the table instead of an opponent doesn't make it antisocial. I've taught several people to play the game and they like it because they can learn from it. Why are you so negative about this??? All the strategy and stuff about other games can come later. Getting people to play is what this is all about. I just looked at the rules Friday again, and there is a penalty point for scratching on the break.
As for Cut Throat being a betting game, you gotta be kidding me!!!
 
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Wasn't there a game called Equal Offense? This sounds very similar.

With a little alteration, it can help your 14.1 game. The change I made to Equal Offense was to allow you to score 20 points per inning...thus bringing in the break shot. Run the first 14, then rack those and shoot from there (as in 14.1). If you get a good break out shot, you could max you score to 20. A little more skill involved in this method.

Still a solitary type game and no defensive moves...strickly offense. Good practice when you're alone.

L8R...Ken
 
SKUNKBOY said:
Wasn't there a game called Equal Offense? This sounds very similar.

Still a solitary type game and no defensive moves...strickly offense. Good practice when you're alone.

L8R...Ken
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Yes, it's in the BCA rule book. I forget just who invented it, maybe Jerry Briesath?

Edit: Just looked, it was Jerry.
 
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Pushout said:
How do you get lucky making a ball in a called pocket????
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Like in "6 in the side", miss the side pocket, 6-ball does 2 rails and drops in the called side pocket.

Pushout said:
Why are you so negative about this??? All the strategy and stuff about other games can come later. Getting people to play is what this is all about.
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Well okay, I did come across as very negative, when in fact I think any pool is good for pool in general. I apologize for the strong words.

Playing the table makes you ignore completely your opponent's skills. As I said, the format of this game is such that you could conveibably play a match against someone who isn't even there. This is not my idea of a fun game, but then, to each his own I guess.

If this is a game to get potential players hooked on pool, I'm all for it. Like you say, there's always time to get these players hooked on the rest later. But reading the 6pocketleague.com website, I get the feeling that these people took a game that is completely unfair by nature, purged all the unfairness out of it, made it accessible to every Tom, Dick and Harry who can wield a cue stick, and that they now have the One True Game everybody should convert to, because it's So Much Better(TM). If they just said "hey, we've got this cool game. Try it out, even beginners can participate!", it would be just dandy. But they're so militant in promoting the format it bothers me, because it really is a pale shadow of what other pool formats can offer.

But I guess I get too excited too easily. I'll try it in a couple hours, who knows, I might have fun :)
 
Fastolfe said:
You can get lucky just like in 8-ball or 14.1, if you pocket in the called pocket. As for a one point penalty if you scratch on the break, the 6pocketleague.com site doesn't say anything about this.

But what's really damning about this game is that it's completely antisocial. You might as well play all your games alone on your own table, and your opponent his games on another table. You don't even have to do it on the same day. Then clever math ensues to call it a match, and between completely uneven skills no less. Plus, the complete lack of strategy throws away a lot of the interest of a pool game.

To me, a game of pool (or carom, or snooker) is playing *someone*. Your opponent leaves you in a pickle, you do your best to get out of it. You lose your speed because you see the guy move and ruin your clever positions, you get back at the table, make a great shot, get back in position, and then *they* start feeling down, etc... It's a game of chess and a game of poker, as well as game of skills. Sitting for 30 minutes in anguish watching the guy almost run out, then get back at the table and win against all odds, feeling elated and drained at the same time, is part of what makes billiard a great game. Whoever invented 6 pockets apparently considers all these aspects of the game something to get rid of, and that's completely wrong.

Re 3 ball or cutt throat, everybody knows they are betting games, not to be taken too seriously. Nobody claims they are "the future of billiard" and "changing billiards one rack at a time", like the 6 pocket folks do. 6 pocket may be amusing, in fact I will try it later tonight at the pool hall to see if it really is, but it's hardly as rich a game as straight pool, or even 8 ball.

This said, if you like 6 pocket, more power to you. Better play a game of pool - even amputated of half of what makes it fun - than watching TV...
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Hello and welcome to the greatest newest growing game in the billiards industry. Im sorry you have such concerns about the game but please allow me to maybe give a second oppinion.

1st if you scratch on the brake then any balls made come up spotted. If you scratch on the brake, miscue, or go off the table without a legal brake it is a minus 1. You can accrew multiple penaties until you make a legal brake. A brake is contact with the rack from any angle at any speed.

Your next concern about the fun of the social atmosphere with the game allow me to mention that at my weekly tournaments the guys have a great time chearing for run outs and trying to sneak peeks at score cards. LOL Its all about fun. Its actually more fun to play when you and your friends are playing good becouse now you have a point total to try to beat. It definitly keeps track of your progress.

As for the handicapped system let me say this, that you with your handicap will still get smoked by say John Schmidt with his handicap and he plays scratch on an 8 footer he gets no balls but just like in golf statisticly he will out play you in this format becouse it is more likely for you to Miss then him. Generally the handicap might give someone an a brake every 4th tournament or so the rest of the time its the consistent shooters in 9,8, and every other billiards game that win.

As far as the concern about stress. Play a girl 5 racks give her ten balls on the wire and then sit there while she blows away the first rack for a fifteen and you know even if you do the same you still have to make up ten balls somewhere. LOL Oh and do this at the fast sddies tour. LOL Not to mention in 6 pocket missing isnt an option.

That being said you must brake with control and accuracy as the table needs to lay out well in order for you to run out. You must exersive your mind about patterns and brake outs. It isnt as easy as it seems. I promise you there is alot more skill necessary to be good at this game then people give it credit for.

Please share your score with us after 10 racks but please try it atleast twice for an average.

anything over 125 and you might be playing near a pro level.

Brandon Schuff came down to one of my tournaments and ran every rack but scratched on the 10th brake for a 149 out of 150. You could hear the scratch in Canada, I bet. James Garcia here in town shot a 139. These are probably the two best scores Iv seen.

Good luck and have fun.

Alex
 
It wouldn't be anything that I would want to spend a roll of quarters on for league play.

I do practice that way as it is good for concentration (see how you feel after missing an easy shot on your 3rd ball).

The handicapping is the big draw for the game IMHO.

I am surprised that nobody mentioned it, but the handicapping may not be as even as everyone thinks...for example, you may wind up comparing scores shot on a bar table to a 9ft table with pro cuts.

Not my cup of tea. I don't see it catching on due to the previously mentioned lack of necessity for social interaction.

Hmmmmm, on a totally different tangent, the name 6 pocket did make me think that there might be a way to play one pocket with more than 2 players be adding the element of rotatiing pockets.
 
Okay, I'm back from the action room. I played 6 pocket with my friend Kevin, a 9 ball fanatic who loves fast games, and my friend Oliver who's my usual straight pool partner. Kev is the weaker player of us three, and Ol and I reckon we're about on par. I proposed a "serious" test of the 6 pocket game: both were seriously underwhelmed by the idea, but agreed nonetheless for the sake of not dying ignorant. Here are our observations :

I played 10 racks with Kev, and 7 with Ol, whose patience at that point ran out. The 3 of us agree that way too much of the game rests on the break : if you get a nice spread, you can run out fine in a few minutes. If you don't, you either know roughly the number of balls you'll be able to make before getting into trouble in the problematic pack of balls (in Kev's case, he isn't too good at potting *and* removing problem spots at the same time) or you launch into what's essentially a rack of straight pool without the option of safety play, which may last much longer than 5 minutes. In any case, your opponent yawns for a long time in his chair and has plenty of time for a cigarette and a coffee.

In the end we all opted for a safe head-on medium-hard front break, not really trying to pocket anything, just to get a nice spread. In order to increase our chances of spreading the balls, we spent an inordinate amount of time making sure the racks were tight, which added to the inning times considerably. Given that our tables are somewhat problematic to get tight racks, we ended up getting annoyed at the difficulty of making good racks and not getting good spreads.

We didn't bother with score cards, we just kept points on the regular counter. We didn't really bother with handicaps either, as we just wanted to play for fun, and Kev figures he's better than us anyway :)

Kev stuck around because, impatient though he is, he likes to show off running a full rack. Since he can break 8-ball like nobody, he was at an advantage. Ol however had enough waiting for me to finish and re-rack at each inning and told me to either find a stripper to peel off items of clothing at each ball he pocketed in his racks, or quit that and rack em up for straight pool, because he was paying the table by the hour and he wasn't having fun.

Long story short, we got bored stiff, although Kev had a better time than Ol or I. Oh well, at least we tried...

rbpwrd240 said:
Your next concern about the fun of the social atmosphere with the game allow me to mention that at my weekly tournaments the guys have a great time chearing for run outs and trying to sneak peeks at score cards. LOL Its all about fun. Its actually more fun to play when you and your friends are playing good becouse now you have a point total to try to beat. It definitly keeps track of your progress.
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Well okay, it's great that you can have fun with 6 pocket in your neck of the wood, but somehow the joy didn't spread to our pool hall. Different mentalities perhaps, or we needed a few cold ones (or Ol's stripper) to make it interesting for us.

rbpwrd240 said:
Please share your score with us after 10 racks but please try it atleast twice for an average.
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I scored 108 when I played 10 racks with Kev. I didn't do it twice, and I clean forgot how much I did over 7 racks with Ol. I found it a lot easier than my usual warm-up routine, which is also trying to run out a rack, but stripes (or solids) first, 8-ball, then the rest of the balls. The only thing that prevented me from scoring higher was the stupid rack that wouldn't spread right, which incidentally tells me that 6 pocket players had better play on nice tables if they want to increase their scores.

That concludes my 6 pocket experiment. Sorry to say, it ain't sticking here...
 
Fastolfe said:
Like in "6 in the side", miss the side pocket, 6-ball does 2 rails and drops in the called side pocket.



Well okay, I did come across as very negative, when in fact I think any pool is good for pool in general. I apologize for the strong words.
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Hmm...never had that happen in Straight Pool, 8 ball, maybe, but I haven't played it much since I walked into a commercial pool room. You don't see it played on big tables by good players, where I learned to play. Only kids and beginners, no offense intended, that's just the way it was.

Apology accepted!
 
Pushout said:
Hmm...never had that happen in Straight Pool, 8 ball, maybe, but I haven't played it much since I walked into a commercial pool room. You don't see it played on big tables by good players, where I learned to play. Only kids and beginners, no offense intended, that's just the way it was.
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It happens to me occasionally, especially when I need to hammer in an almost straight-in shot with a ton of english, to bring the cueball around the table in 3 rails for instance. If I miss, the object ball will sometimes do 4 or 5 rails and finish in the intended pocket. It doesn't happen often, and I look like a right idiot when it does, but it does happen :)
 
fd_colorado said:
It wouldn't be anything that I would want to spend a roll of quarters on for league play.

I do practice that way as it is good for concentration (see how you feel after missing an easy shot on your 3rd ball).

The handicapping is the big draw for the game IMHO.

I am surprised that nobody mentioned it, but the handicapping may not be as even as everyone thinks...for example, you may wind up comparing scores shot on a bar table to a 9ft table with pro cuts.

Not my cup of tea. I don't see it catching on due to the previously mentioned lack of necessity for social interaction.

Hmmmmm, on a totally different tangent, the name 6 pocket did make me think that there might be a way to play one pocket with more than 2 players be adding the element of rotatiing pockets.
Click to expand...



There are no table fees per game for 6 pocket. The bar box's must be open and free.

There are conversions for playing on bar box 8 and 9 foot tables. As far as pocket size practice on small play on equal or bigger.



Generally the initial response to the game is I dont like it. Stick with it if only for practice eventually you will see yourself playing the game more and more.

The break is definitly crucial as well as pocketing balls and playing patterns. Im sorry you guys feel this way about the game but give it time and I think you might change your mind.

Good luck and good roles
Alex:wink:
 
I am in the process of trying to put together 6 Pocket leagues here in the Tampa Bay area. I like the game but I like other games even more. But 6 Pocket has lots of advantages for league play and I thought I'd try to clarify them.

6 Pocket is not the be-all and end-all pool game, and will never supplant the major games, Straight Pool, 8, 9 & 10 Ball, and One Pocket. That said, the game can be fun, puts a surprising amount of pressure on you (every shot is sudden death), and is quite helpful in learning pocketing, position, and pattern play.

One the break, if you scratch or foul it's a one point penalty and you have to spot any balls pocketed. Cue ball goes in the kitchen and you must shoot toward the foot end of the table.

If you break and don't foul, but get a horrible lie, you can optionally place the cue ball in the kitchen, take a 1 point penalty, and shoot forward. You do not have to spot any balls made. This means a breaker who scratches does not get an advantage over one who did not. That said, a good break is quite an asset.

Handicaps are calculated independently for each table size. A handicap on a 7 footer is not used in play on a 9 footer, you must establish a 9 ft handicap independently.

There are a huge number of people who complain about a lot of the things that are common in league play. Some leagues are worse than others, but all generate a lot of complaints, though they obviously provide something players want because there are so many members.

In 6 pocket, many of the things league players like least are gone. For example:

There are no teams, just singles. Therefore:
  • You don't have to put up with a captain who doesn't play you.
  • You play against the field, not against one opponent.
  • There is no coaching
  • If you want to play, show up, if not, don't.
  • No requirement to play every week.
  • No limit on handicaps. All players welcome regardless of skill level.
The format solves a lot of problems too:

  • Typical matches of 10 innings with 3 players per table take 2 hours.
  • No waiting around until after midnight to finish.
  • No waiting forever for low skill players to finish a match.
  • Pocketing balls is most people's favorite part of the game.
  • Safety play is eliminated. Some won't like that, many wil rejoice.
  • How you perform is entirely up to you.
  • No blaming opponents for lucking into safes all the time.
  • Some will still blame the equipment, nothing can be done to stop that.
  • Everyone gets the exact same oportunity to perform.
  • Skill is rewaded, luck quickly fades.

The game will help you improve your pool skills in many ways, all transferrable to any other game you like to play. It won't teach you everything, but that's hardly a criticism, since other games don't either, though some work more skills than others.
  • A good break that scatters balls is a valuable asset.
  • Not scratching/fouling on the break is important too.
  • Pocketing skill is very important, of course.
  • More important, especailly as each inning progresses is position play
  • Good pattern play will make it much easier to run lots of balls.
  • You actually get a score, you can see your progress over time (or not).

The 6 Pocket League organization puts a lot of power and flexibility in the hands of the room owners to tweek their leagues and tournament formats to suit their requirements. The rules stay the same, but in a tournament one place could play one 10 inning game and another could play back to back to back 5 inning games while cutting the bottom 25% each time. Lots of formats possible, many not even thought up yet.

I'm sure I've missed many other things that make 6 Pocket a great game to build a league around. It isn't for everybody, but neither is anythig else. How about the constant scrapping on this board between 9 ballers and one pocket players, etc.

If it isn't for you, oh well. But that doesn't make it a bad game.
 
rbpwrd240 said:
There are no table fees per game for 6 pocket. The bar box's must be open and free.

There are conversions for playing on bar box 8 and 9 foot tables. As far as pocket size practice on small play on equal or bigger.



Generally the initial response to the game is I dont like it. Stick with it if only for practice eventually you will see yourself playing the game more and more.

The break is definitly crucial as well as pocketing balls and playing patterns. Im sorry you guys feel this way about the game but give it time and I think you might change your mind.

Good luck and good roles
Alex:wink:
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I noticied you are listing yourself as a "Sponsored Player". Please explain the details on this......

Also, how do you personally rank in 6 ball (what is your handicap)? How about APA or BCA? Just curious....

Finally, what are the benefits of 6 ball when it comes to a players ability? Seems like with 8 ball you have to navigate around your opponent's balls and think about position on your next balls, with 9 ball and 10 ball you always have to play position, but with this game it seems like if you can break good and spread the balls you don't have to worry about much until your last few balls.

Thanks!
 
MahnaMahna said:
I noticied you are listing yourself as a "Sponsored Player". Please explain the details on this......

Also, how do you personally rank in 6 ball (what is your handicap)? How about APA or BCA? Just curious....

Finally, what are the benefits of 6 ball when it comes to a players ability? Seems like with 8 ball you have to navigate around your opponent's balls and think about position on your next balls, with 9 ball and 10 ball you always have to play position, but with this game it seems like if you can break good and spread the balls you don't have to worry about much until your last few balls.

Thanks!
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First, it's Six Pocket, not 6 ball. What does apa or BCA have to do with it? 8 ball only improves 8 ball by playing it. Six Pocket will improve your overall pool skills similar to Straight Pool. 8 ball you still only have to run 6 or 7 balls to win if you make a ball on the break. How many racks of 15 can you run?
 
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I ran into 6 pocket back in May when I felt I had a good game and needed to go out and get my seasoning and pay my dues. I had seen them at my local trophy league several times. Each time I came up with a reason to question them and their game but never play it. Several weeks later I was at a Fast Eddies Olhausen tour event they asked me to play their guy in a demo event. I jumped at the chance. I ended up playing Billy Chilton. He kicked my butt. I swallowed my pride and asked questions no more. I dogged easy balls in front of Shane, David G., Hill Billy, and a slew of other top players from around the nation.

I couldnt have been more imbarised and humbled at the same time. It put alot of pressure on me for the first time and I crumbled. :o

After the showing I spoke with them several times and eventualy we came to an agreement that helped get their name out and helped me get to the events I wanted to play in. There is more to it then that but...?

I have been fortunate enough to play in competition with Samm Diep, Brandon Schuff, and a slew of other top players. I had John Schmidt help me out with an OB-2 and OB cues helped me out with some joint issues. Iv been able to talk and pick the brains of a slew of other top players thanks to 6 pocket. I couldnt be more thankfull.

I am an 8/9 in BCA 8-ball (trophy league)
I am running right about a 4.8 in 6 pocket (I get 4.8 balls per rack on 8ft)
I play a BCAPL national league and we'll see how I do in vegas at the amature 8 ball event I expect to come back a Master.

I dont play any APA leagues or ACS etc.:eek:
 
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