APA 8-ball Rankings

HawaiianEye

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I did my usual Sunday morning banging today and hung around afterward and watched an 8-ball match between two guys who were both rated as 6-levels. They had to play a race to five.

I must have forgotten how their ratings were structured, so I looked it up a moment ago and saw that the highest rating in APA 8-ball is a 7-level.

Maybe different areas of the world have 6-levels that play better than the two guys I watched because neither of these guys could play a lick...either pocketing balls or in game strategy.

I can't understand how these guys got to the next-to-the-top highest rung in rankings playing as poorly as they did. It wasn't just an off-day for them...I could see that neither of them had any note-worthy fundamentals or sense of pattern play.

Are all APA leagues like this?

Do they ever provide lessons to the players in order to help them improve their games or do they just take their money every week and let them fend for themselves?

I see some of these grown-ups who are 2s and 3s and some of them have been at those levels for multiple seasons. I don't care how bad they play, I can teach somebody to be better than 3s and 4s in not too long...surely not seasons and seasons...no matter how infrequently they play.

They always ask me to join the league, but I have absolutely no use for it...not my cup of tea. However, I would be willing to teach some of them how to be better players if they came in before the league and were willing to pay attention and learn something.

Of the ones I've tried to show a thing or two, they were either ADD or too busy trying to show me their ability to "spin" the ball with their fancy LD cue. They didn't have a lick of sense when it came to English, but were insistent on trying it on every shot. It seems that some of the 4s must have told them to "spin it up" on every shot. It is hard to break them of that habit when their attention span isn't longer than a minute or less.

If I could ever find one willing to listen and put in the time and effort, I'd like to see how much they could improve with some guidance and coaching.
 
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Ratings are partly derived from wins and losses I believe. Therefore the strength of the player is somewhat dependent on the level of competition.
There are quite a few 6s from the town I used to call home in Illinois who could give you all you could handle on a bar box.
 
What surprises me about my local Apa league is how little people understand about playing 8 ball. Even when I play a 6 maybe they are not as consistent as me but I expect them to understand the game and they don’t . They make thier open balls and then look at what they have left. I play a safe or 2 then run out. Lol they don’t seem to get 8 ball is about running racks it’s about patience and finding the path of least resistance.
 
I feel like the OP should know better. Bangers will always be bangers if they don’t spend time developing their game. Leagues doesn’t change that. Leagues are mostly social. And don’t forget how hard it can be learning pool. There’s a million lessons to be learned. Hard hours can teach you that in short time but one chat with an old timer may make sense in the moment but it won’t survive a night of sleep if it’s not reinforced with some hours on the table.
 
I love these posts. This is why pool goes nowhere, and is going nowhere.

Everyone is a pro on Az. No one ever misses on here, or has a bad game.

Thanks for the morning chuckle.
 
APA lives off of low ranked players...aside from Dr Dave and Lee Brett videos (which are really good), they don’t do a ton to help.
 
Different strokes for different folks. I play APA and it amazes me that someone can remain a 2 or 3 forever, but then I remind myself not everyone is me.

Winning and pushing myself to be the best I can is important to me. To others it is the social aspect of league. They go to hang out with friends while playing pool.

No different than golf or tennis. You see the same thing there. It is important to remember that not everyone has the same goals and having the “duffers” involved helps support the game
 
I've found that the best instructors for me, in a wide variety of activities (not just pool), are those that think like me. Their mental approach is similar to mine, and they are interested in continuously improving their skills and abilities, and they enjoy passing along the "whys" of what they teach, and not just the "hows". It also has to do with my general opinion of someone as a person, meaning that if I think someone is a genuinely good person, I'll then want to emulate them and follow the path so-to-speak.

I'm only playing in my third session of league pool, and can bang away with the best of them. But I'm noticing that there are a couple guys that play a completely different kind of game, lots more safety/defensive shots and strategic positioning, and those are the guys that I'm learning the most from. It's only after them playing those shots that I realize why they did it, and that aspect is where I feel my weaknesses lie right now.

Overall, it seems like most league play is a social activity, and people become content with their skill levels.
 
APA, especially APA 8-ball, isn't trying to cover the entire range of pool skill levels with their ranking system. An APA 7 can be anywhere from around a B player (especially in areas with less competition) to an open player. If you've been playing tournament pool or gambling for most of your pool career, anyone less than an APA 7 isn't going to look very competitive to you. The reason that this system works for the APA is that there are only so many high level players that are interested in playing league pool, and there is a handicap limit of 23 points per match to prevent those players from being able to effectively play on the same team.

The fact that most of the APA is composed of lower ranked players is just a testament to the fact that you don't have to be good at pool to enjoy a pool league. There are "bad" players in every type of league that I can think of, but they still play. Besides, if only the good players played pool, all of the pool rooms would have shut down by now.
 
I am an APA 6, but i dont play near as
good as I used to. I just don't have the
time to play more then once a week. I no longer have my
own table. So I'm stuck just having fun.
 
I have very very rarely seen a good player on a team try to make the other players on the team better. Sure they give them advice during a match but nothing past that. And often the advice is "miss so your don't go up" LOL
 
HawaiianEye said:
I did my usual Sunday morning banging today and hung around afterward and watched an 8-ball match between two guys who were both rated as 6-levels. They had to play a race to five.

I must have forgotten how their ratings were structured, so I looked it up a moment ago and saw that the highest rating in APA 8-ball is a 7-level.

Maybe different areas of the world have 6-levels that play better than the two guys I watched because neither of these guys could play a lick...either pocketing balls or in game strategy.

I can't understand how these guys got to the next-to-the-top highest rung in rankings playing as poorly as they did. It wasn't just an off-day for them...I could see that neither of them had any note-worthy fundamentals or sense of pattern play.

Are all APA leagues like this?

Do they ever provide lessons to the players in order to help them improve their games or do they just take their money every week and let them fend for themselves?

I see some of these grown-ups who are 2s and 3s and some of them have been at those levels for multiple seasons. I don't care how bad they play, I can teach somebody to be better than 3s and 4s in not too long...surely not seasons and seasons...no matter how infrequently they play.

They always ask me to join the league, but I have absolutely no use for it...not my cup of tea. However, I would be willing to teach some of them how to be better players if they came in before the league and were willing to pay attention and learn something.

Of the ones I've tried to show a thing or two, they were either ADD or too busy trying to show me their ability to "spin" the ball with their fancy LD cue. They didn't have a lick of sense when it came to English, but were insistent on trying it on every shot. It seems that some of the 4s must have told them to "spin it up" on every shot. It is hard to break them of that habit when their attention span isn't longer than a minute or less.

If I could ever find one willing to listen and put in the time and effort, I'd like to see how much they could improve with some guidance and coaching.
Click to expand...

Easiest way to say this is that with a handicap league that has set biased marks for skill levels, the size of the league determines who is a high skill level and not. The smaller the league, the higher ones skill level will be. To knock those guys as being a 6 is you being a nit. Blame the local league operator for the small size of the league. Most likely due to their lack of ethics and integrity is why the league is small.
 
There's also a time and dedication factor that goes along with it. As much as i would love to I simply don't have the time to delicate to getting better. I love playing pool but with family work and life pool has to take a backseat. I also don't have a table at home to practice on so that limits by ability to get table time to improve my game.
 
"Do they ever provide lessons to the players in order to help them improve their games or do they just take their money every week and let them fend for themselves?"

This comment here, why? I have played in several leagues, APA, VNEA, BCA, and some local stuff. Not one of them ever offered up any lessons to the players. Why is it you feel that this ONE league should?
 
If a better player or even a played tht has invested some time in trying to get better watches an APA match between most any skill level they will find errors galore.
But

It really doesnt matter. Its too hard to judge the players without knowing them and the situations. MOST (vast majority) play league for fun. They do their daily grind and look forward to a night out with some friends. COMPETITION is not even remotely on their mind.
I was always amazed by a guy in our league.. jack hammered and did concrete work all day then would come and sometimes not play until 10pm. I couldn't have made a ball.

Point is that you never know if someone has just started, if they even care what level they are at, if they do care (dont want to go up) what they did that day or is on their mind, if they care if they win etc etc. Just too many variables.

The other thing IMO about the match you saw is it two 6s. They are the most misunderstood group of players. Many times people see them as right next to the highest level but IMO they are often some of the weakest players.

There are some that actually do thing better than the below levels consistently but I think many times they are 4s or 5s that don't know how to play and make balls. They NEVER extend a game if the layout is poor and just have low innings. They generally have the ability to make some balls but no thought process. Even the players they play on most night come away with a low inning match.

I am a 7 and on any team I ever played on I told the players I am going to help you. i don't want to see sandbagging. I had to get rid of some players that didn't like that but that is okay too. they can find a team that fit them. I wanted players that for the most part cared about winning and wanted to learn a little bit.

I am back in league now after a hiatus and this session in 8 weeks I have had 2 players go up and another has to be on the edge. I take time outs to help them win whenever I can and try to give advice on their "game". Its a good group and we are in first place.
 
trob said:
What surprises me about my local Apa league is how little people understand about playing 8 ball. Even when I play a 6 maybe they are not as consistent as me but I expect them to understand the game and they don’t . They make thier open balls and then look at what they have left. I play a safe or 2 then run out. Lol they don’t seem to get 8 ball is about running racks it’s about patience and finding the path of least resistance.
Click to expand...

So true. Can't begin to tell you the looks I have received playing safe right out of the gate or with ball in hand. Completely flusters a lot of players.
 
Billiardsfan said:
"Do they ever provide lessons to the players in order to help them improve their games or do they just take their money every week and let them fend for themselves?"

This comment here, why? I have played in several leagues, APA, VNEA, BCA, and some local stuff. Not one of them ever offered up any lessons to the players. Why is it you feel that this ONE league should?
Click to expand...

I don't know about you, or anyone else, but "I" like to improve at things I do. I guess you consider the leagues to be nothing more than "social hours".

I didn't single out APA, I just made an observation. I would think all leagues would hope that their players progressed as they went along.

To me, playing pool as a "social hour" is kind of like the bowling leagues where you have a team of bowlers who all have 75 pin handicaps. They come in the bowling alley, all wearing fancy team shirts, sit around and BS between frames, get up on the lane and throw 2s, 3s, and gutter balls and then get real loud and do fist bumps and hand slaps while going back to their BSing sessions.

I guess I'm spoiled because they never had leagues where I grew up playing pool. I learned to play in a REAL pool hall, not a recreation center or a bowling alley. I worked in a pool hall as a kid, even though there was not supposed to be anybody in the pool hall under 21, unless accompanied by a parent.

I grew up playing with people who actually could play pool. I got beat down like everybody else, over and over, until I actually learned how to play. What time I wasn't playing, I was watching the best players gambling and paying attention. We didn't have cell phones and all kinds of distractions back then.

I played eight, or more hours, a day, six days a week, for years...all the way through high school. By the time I was 16, I could beat anybody in the town and I exacted my revenge on all those players who "beat me down" during the earlier years.

I don't mind watching people play, but I'd rather be at the table shooting...that is why I aspired to play better than they played.
 
Ahhh, for a time machine. But if I could go back, I wouldn't look at a pool table...Hell, just give a Wall St, Journal dated 2 days ahead. ;)

Seriously, good posts here. I'll confess to being a recreational player. Being a serious player and not making the top ranks must be a path to being unhappy.
 
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Billiardsfan said:
"Do they ever provide lessons to the players in order to help them improve their games or do they just take their money every week and let them fend for themselves?"

This comment here, why? I have played in several leagues, APA, VNEA, BCA, and some local stuff. Not one of them ever offered up any lessons to the players. Why is it you feel that this ONE league should?
Click to expand...

All of them should, seems like a failure of the person running the league, the USAPL league in N.E. offers free classes.

Here is one https://www.facebook.com/events/179263589523196/

Usually there are a few of those a year along with weekly lessons for junior players and recently they started working with the local colleges (MIT, BU, BC, etc...) with their pool program and having a few sessions with them.

We have also had Karen Corr in the area for a few weeks and she did lessons (although not free) that were advertised to the league players.

Also the top players on the team should work with the rest of the players. Sadly due to how many leagues run things, getting better is not the goal or serve a good purpose, while sandbagging for easier wins and keeping players low for handicap limits is.

The whole structure of leagues is not to improve players if you just look at the core setup of them. Why get better when you then have to play better to beat people when you can do nothing and just use the handicap system? Plus with total team ability limits, you can't just have players get better or you can't play them or keep them on the team. It's like some sales quota or helpdesk where they do not monitor for quality or good answers but how much or how fast you get your numbers made. You hang up with someone in 2 minutes you get a good score, it does not matter if you did not help them or they need to call back 3 times more or if you made things worse, you have your good mark.

The attitudes from most league players, and players in general is not "I want to play the best I can and improve", it's "I don't need/want to get better, I just want more weight".
 
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