APA 9 Ball Races

cueball2010

cueball2010

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
I have always wondered why the APA uses ball count instead of 9 ball pocketed liked the rest of world. But I actually kind of like APA counting of balls to determine skill.

I guess I am looking for some opinions here. Is the better player the one who can sink the most balls or the one who can pocket the 9?
 
MitchAlsup said:
I would give it the lesser bad of 9-ball handicapping.
Click to expand...
The idea of point per ball is the only way to go.
I don't know how well the APA implement it but it's better than giving games or match balls.
 
skor said:
The idea of point per ball is the only way to go.
I don't know how well the APA implement it but it's better than giving games or match balls.
Click to expand...

Back in the 1960s we played $1 on 5 and 7 $2 on 9
you could win or loose and still break even.
 
I think the ball count gives the lower skill level player a better chance than counting racks like in 8 ball. Especially when the lower skill level player is not intimidated by their opponent.

The premise in APA 9 ball, is that an entire rack is worth 10 points, a point for each ball and two points for the 9. If you make an early 9, you get those two points, and the next break, but it's often better to run balls for the extra points if the shots are there. Balls made on a scratch or a foul are "dead balls", and are not counted for either player.

For handicap, here are the balls needed for each skill level:
A 1 needs 14
A 2 needs 19
A 3 needs 25
A 4 needs 31
A 5 needs 38
A 6 needs 46
A 7 needs 55
A 8 needs 65
A 9 needs 75

Now just like in 8 ball, there are those that reach the higher levels that are worlds apart from those that have been there for years. And for some weekly league matches, playing a 3 against a 7 or an 8 is often a good team strategy. My GF is a 3, and I'm an 8, and in our basement practice matches, she beats me way more than I beat her. She needs to average 3 balls per rack, and she'll hit four and five ball runs more than I'll hold her to none or one. I find that playing good defensive or safety shots is something that is an absolute necessity. Lots of lower skill level players tend towards just bashing balls at break speed when there isn't a clear shot, and much as I don't like that, it often works. Those lower skill level players frequently have close matches when playing higher skill level players.
 
USAPL also uses a form ball count for 8/9/10 ball. Rack winner gets 14 and rack loser gets 1 point per ball pocketed (9/10 ball) and 1 point for every ball of theirs not on the table (8 ball).

Agree that APA method works fine for APA. In the lower skill levels there are only a few racks played in a match so the ball count is more indicative of "performance."
 
In APA, points awarded for making the 9 points is 2 versus only 1 point for any object ball.
It really should be a higher point value than just double a single object ball’s point value.

Why? Because in real life pool and the official rules of pool, you only have to pocket the 9 ball
to win the game. You can have a race to 7 match & only have to pocket 7 balls to win the match.

As long as all seven balls are the 9 ball and your opponent can pocket the other 56 balls but you
still win 7-0. Since 9 ball is about pocketing the 9 ball to win, the 9 should be worth more than 2 pts.

I think it should be increased to a 3 points value…….that means you opponent can win 8 points by
running the table to the 9 and misses the shot you pocket to win the game & get 3 points, not 2 pts.

It places more emphasis on how the game of 9 ball is actually played. Sink the 9 ball anytime in any
pocket and you win and on 7’ tables it is ridiculously easy to take place. Make the 9 called pocket only.

9 ball is already a game of slop and and so is the way 8 ball gets played in APA. Slop a solid or striped
ball In any pocket not called and it counts. APA doesn’t require calling your pocket except for the 8 ball.

Any pool league should at least abide by the established rules of pool or try to come close but inadvertent,
pure luck slopping a ball around the table & accidentally pocketing a OB in 8 ball for credit is bending the rules.

Get on your ass on any table and call every shot and now you are playing pool. Just hit the OB as hard as
you can and hope it drops isn’t. That is the short fall of 7’ tables and social pool leagues. I prefer cutthroat.

Big tables, tight pockets, fast cloth and I am in nirvana when it comes to pool playing. The rules that APA
uses, especially with length of time players are afforded to take a shot, is just outright ludicrous and comical.

Tighten the rules, implement a shot clock, change the points value like for 9 ball, a team handicap limit should
be increased to 25 instead of 23 for 9 ball since player ratings can be as high as 9 versus 8 ball’s 7 points max.

I guess I am more competitive minded and I hate losing to another player slopping object balls in an undesignated
pocket and counting. I believe pool is a game of strict rules to be followed and any lucky shots should be minimized.
 
Last edited:
Justaneng said:
USAPL also uses a form ball count for 8/9/10 ball. Rack winner gets 14 and rack loser gets 1 point per ball pocketed (9/10 ball) and 1 point for every ball of theirs not on the table (8 ball).

Agree that APA method works fine for APA. In the lower skill levels there are only a few racks played in a match so the ball count is more indicative of "performance."
Click to expand...

I like the USAPL handicap system much better, you need to win the game to get the majority of the points. In the APA you can play 9 ball without much focus at the endgame and still win the match, even if you technically loose every game. Not good training for the "real world" of pool.
 
I'll just add here that the APA is a business, and when you look at their rules like team handicap limits and such, the business aspect of that, and how it helps grow the leagues, those rules make much more sense. At least it does for me.
 
With the ball count method, low skill players can compete = more players = more money for APA. I like ball count. If you run eight and jar the 9, you're still good.
 
Logandgriff said:
low skill players can compete = more players = more money for APA
Click to expand...
The middle part of that equation is important for everyone - APA, CSI, all the way up the ladder to the pros. It's important to equipment manufacturers, host locations, tournament organizers, even matchup gamblers and backers, and others like FargoRate. It's also important to longer-term goals like sponsorship. Without the "more people", everyone suffers. Intolerance for those "more people" also harms the growth of the sport. Ignore them if you wish, but actively showing disdain can drive them away. <--- Not directed at anyone in particular, just my perspective.
 
Bavafongoul said:
In APA, points awarded for making the 9 points is 2 versus only 1 point for any object ball.
It really should be a higher point value than just double a single object ball’s point value.

Why? Because in real life pool and the official rules of pool, you only have to pocket the 9 ball
to win the game. You can have a race to 7 match & only have to pocket 7 balls to win the match.

As long as all seven balls are the 9 ball and your opponent can pocket the other 63 balls but you
still win 7-0. Since 9 ball is about pocketing the 9 ball to win, the 9 should be worth more than 2 pts.

I think it should be increased to a 3 points value…….that means you opponent can win 8 points by
running the table to the 9 and misses the shot you pocket to win the game & get 3 points, not 2 pts.

It places more emphasis on how the game of 9 ball is actually played. Sink the 9 ball anytime in any
pocket and you win and on 7’ tables it is ridiculously easy to take place. Make the 9 called pocket only.

9 ball is already a game of slop and and so is the way 8 ball gets played in APA. Slop a solid or striped
ball In any pocket not called and it counts. APA doesn’t require calling your pocket except for the 8 ball.

Any pool league should at least abide by the established rules of pool or try to come close but inadvertent,
pure luck slopping a ball around the table & accidentally pocketing a OB in 8 ball for credit is bending the rules.

Get on your ass on any table and call every shot and now you are playing pool. Just hit the OB as hard as
you can and hope it drops isn’t. That is the short fall of 7’ tables and social pool leagues. I prefer cutthroat.

Big tables, tight pockets, fast cloth and I am in nirvana when it comes to pool playing. The rules that APA
uses, especially with length of time players are afforded to take a shot, is just outright ludicrous and comical.

Tighten the rules, implement a shot clock, change the points value like for 9 ball, a team handicap limit should
be increased to 25 instead of 23 for 9 ball since player ratings can be as high as 9 versus 8 ball’s 7 points max.

I guess I am more competitive minded and I hate losing to another player slopping object balls in an undesignated
pocket and counting. I believe pool is a game of strict rules to be followed and any lucky shots should be minimized.
Click to expand...
Think you're looking at it as 9 Ball instead of more like straight pool. When you think about it, that's really what they're going for while keeping it as the "exciting" (oooh!) game of 9 ball. Who can just make more balls or make their handicapped number first, as opposed to a game like 8 ball where there's chance for weird stuff to happen like early 8s or scratches on the 8, while still keeping some luck/excitement of the break and getting more for the 9 when it's left for the weaker player. It's really like the 9 shouldn't count more than any other ball, but then it's ridiculous to call it 9 ball and you might as well play straight.
 
Actually what I am saying is there is a obvious imbalance if you can literally win every game and wind up losing the match. Now for fairness, the number of balls sunken is obviously important. But making the 9 is what the game has always been about. Sink the 9 and you win. Do this 6-7 games in a row and still lose the match in APA seems screwy.

I know the number of balls sunken counts but at least give more weight to the points value of the 9 ball. The underlying premise of the game is sink the 9 ball……on the break, your last shot or your only shot but sink the 9 ball and win.

APA should increase the significance of sinking the 9 by assigning the 9 ball a higher value than a object ball and only doubling it from 1 point to 2 points doesn’t recognize the importance of making the 9 ball which is the basis of 9 ball.

It’s not straight pool, which is the toughest game to play, but it sure isn’t 9 ball either. Pool was never intended to be easy
and the way social pool leagues like APA do it really becomes way too easy when played on little tables….not my cup of tea,
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top