APA, FARGO and the death of 8 ball.....

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
It is part of the USAPL league I've played in the last few months. The games are scored like muskyed mentioned in his post. I'm not real impressed with the format. The USAPL is a spin-off of BCAPL and uses the same ruleset. Both are CSI franchises I believe.
Yes, point per ball has been one of the methods of scoring for many leagues since the 1980’s. Leagues like BCAPL and its forerunner the BCA Leagues as well as VNEA are points-per-ball leagues at the local level. The first league I played in 1988 was the P.A.P.A, which used the same game rules as the APA (no call, ball-in-hand, mark the 8-ball), but it did a round robin, point per ball scoring.
 
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NathanDetroit

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Read the opening thread, and cannot figure out how the APA wound up in the title.
2 discussions here:

1. A buddy of mine started playing in an pool league for the first time last night... in his first game of 8 ball, he won in two innings.... the team captain came to him after the game and told him to "slow down, if your level gets too high it will hurt our team"..... This league reports fargo.... seems like a massive sandbagging scheme... is this prevalent in all leagues?? I dont play in any leagues


2. To me, the goal of 8 ball is and always will be to pocket your balls and the 8 ball before your opponent.... now with the league rules where you get points for making balls, this is not longer the only objective.... I was giving pointers to a guy who plays in leagues and encouraging him not to shoot all of his ball in unless he can run all the way out.... his response "but that is gonna cost my team point"... smh


No wonder USA is falling behind.... we are a bunch of cheaters and bangers with little motivation to get better....
 

Justaneng

Registered
USAPL is “point per ball” but the 8-ball is worth 14 points where the others are worth 1 each. If’s usually worth just playing the game proper except for the last rack if one player is well in the lead.
If both players are within 14 of their point total needed to win going into the last rack whoever hits the 8-ball wins.
 

DeadStick

i like turtles
Gold Member
Silver Member
The 2023 APA "World 9-Ball Championship" match just got posted to YouTube in the last few days. The final match of the team game, which wins the team $20K, was a SL2 woman vs a SL9 man - she needed 19 points for the win, he needed 75 points. One point per ball.

I won't spoil it for you, other than to say it's pretty slow and painful to watch, the woman was a "good" SL2, and the SL9 didn't play like the 600FR he is, must've been the pressure:

 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
The 2023 APA "World 9-Ball Championship" match just got posted to YouTube in the last few days. The final match of the team game, which wins the team $20K, was a SL2 woman vs a SL9 man - she needed 19 points for the win, he needed 75 points. One point per ball.

I won't spoil it for you, other than to say it's pretty slow and painful to watch, the woman was a "good" SL2, and the SL9 didn't play like the 600FR he is, must've been the pressure:

Tempting, but I plan on getting run over by a semi later tonight and that seems like a lot more fun
 

Coos Cues

Coos Cues
care to elaborate?

the following are facts:

1. My friend was in fact told to "slow down"

2. The same league reports to fargo

3. Many leagues have a points for balls system in scoring.

the rest, i would love to hear you opinions on it...
Fargo doesn't care what speed you perform at. So what exactly does slow down mean? Fargo only cares if you win or lose not how many balls your opponent makes. We have a BCA league that is handicapped by balls via Fargorate. This only matters to the team outcome and makes no difference to individual players and their payouts. None of this makes sense.
 

HitHrdNDraw

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Fargo doesn't care what speed you perform at. So what exactly does slow down mean? Fargo only cares if you win or lose not how many balls your opponent makes. We have a BCA league that is handicapped by balls via Fargorate. This only matters to the team outcome and makes no difference to individual players and their payouts. None of this makes sense.
Speed means how well you play not how fast you play…. Hopefully that clears things up a bit


Although it’s interesting that u use Fargo, a system based on wins, to determine a handicap based on balls…. Not saying it’s a problem it’s just unusual. I guess you can’t play multiple games in a league for handicap
 

HitHrdNDraw

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Speed means how well you play not how fast you play…. Hopefully that clears things up a bit
Read the opening thread, and cannot figure out how the APA wound up in the title.
I mistakingly referenced apa initially and then edited the original post to just refer to leagues in general… my statement may not apply to APA but does to other leagues
 

Coos Cues

Coos Cues
Speed means how well you play not how fast you play…. Hopefully that clears things up a bit


Although it’s interesting that u use Fargo, a system based on wins, to determine a handicap based on balls…. Not saying it’s a problem it’s just unusual. I guess you can’t play multiple games in a league for handicap
I know what slow down means but it's not like he's going to be playing anyone for money later. I was joking.

So what possible benefit would anyone have for him to stall? Still makes no sense.
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
Why would a pool league exist where vanquishing your opponent in each and every game as efficiently as possible is not a boon for your team?

Is this really what APA is all about?

No wonder it sucks eggs.

And people like it. Sucking eggs has a large constituency it seems.
Team maximum handicap, which usually forces a higher ranked person off the team and they usually start their own team which brings in more tax payers(players)
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
The 2023 APA "World 9-Ball Championship" match just got posted to YouTube in the last few days. The final match of the team game, which wins the team $20K, was a SL2 woman vs a SL9 man - she needed 19 points for the win, he needed 75 points. One point per ball.

I won't spoil it for you, other than to say it's pretty slow and painful to watch, the woman was a "good" SL2, and the SL9 didn't play like the 600FR he is, must've been the pressure:

Technically its one point per ball, and two points for the 9. The SL9 has to be careful to not scratch, because ball-in-hand to an SL2 that only needs 19 points can be a killer. No, they should not be able to run a lot of balls, but depending on the layout, they can get a couple with ball in hand. That adds up quickly, and 19 doesn't have to take long. The SL9 has to not take any chances while they are running to 75.
 
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hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
2 discussions here:

1. A buddy of mine started playing in an pool league for the first time last night... in his first game of 8 ball, he won in two innings.... the team captain came to him after the game and told him to "slow down, if your level gets too high it will hurt our team"..... This league reports fargo.... seems like a massive sandbagging scheme... is this prevalent in all leagues?? I dont play in any leagues


2. To me, the goal of 8 ball is and always will be to pocket your balls and the 8 ball before your opponent.... now with the league rules where you get points for making balls, this is not longer the only objective.... I was giving pointers to a guy who plays in leagues and encouraging him not to shoot all of his ball in unless he can run all the way out.... his response "but that is gonna cost my team point"... smh


No wonder USA is falling behind.... we are a bunch of cheaters and bangers with little motivation to get better....

League players don't really have much to do with pro players, which is where the handicaps come into play. Anyone interested in playing at the A+ or higher level cares little for leagues or their handicaps.

The issue is the fact that leagues, and tournaments, will have 1/5th of the players they do if they make everyone play even, which I am not sure is an "issue", and also the fact that they keep the skill level per team lower to make sure all players get a slot on the team. The sandbagging issue is something that has been talked about since the inception of handicaps, so nothing much new there.
 

muskyed

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
10 points per ball or 100 points for the win on one league, and 105 points for the win on the other league we play.
The 105 points tends to favor the better teams
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The 2023 APA "World 9-Ball Championship" match just got posted to YouTube in the last few days. The final match of the team game, which wins the team $20K, was a SL2 woman vs a SL9 man - she needed 19 points for the win, he needed 75 points. One point per ball.

I won't spoil it for you, other than to say it's pretty slow and painful to watch, the woman was a "good" SL2, and the SL9 didn't play like the 600FR he is, must've been the pressure:

I watched this and actually was very invested in the match as to what would happen. Not because I was out to see some top level play, but how the players and match would turn out to be. Does a low level fold under pressure? How would the luck factor hamper the better player (SL2 misses, but the good player has no shot, crapped in balls, etc..)? Can the higher level maintain the needed play to keep the worse player in check?
 
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