APA League question

George

George

Balance is everything
Silver Member
This should be fairly simple to answer. ;)

Monday we show up at our opponents club for our match(we're visitors) and they only have one player present. He says other players are on the way he thinks. 7:35 we get started and during that first match another player shows up. Long and short of it, we win both and there's no one there to play. We then waited 30 minutes(we know these guys) and still no player. We write up last 3 matches as forfeits and sent in the scoresheet.
This morning we received this weeks paperwork and we see that we were only given 3 total wins:mad: ........this can't be correct IMO. Does any have a clearer understanding of the rule than I got from the manual????

Pages 20 and 21:
http://www.poolplayers.com/materials.html

The manual leads me to believe we should get 5 wins. Am I wrong?
We did have 7 players there ready to play.
 
I'm pritty sure the rule is, you played the two matches, so that's 2-0. they forfeit the other 3, that's 5-0. seems like you got the shaft my friend! now if none of the players showed up, that is either three or four points, i can't remember exactly.
 
ronhudson said:
Call your league operator and ask the question of them.
Click to expand...
I should have added that I've already left a message for him......just waiting on the return call. I was justing hoping someone knew what the rule is so I'm not at a disadvantage when I speak to him.

Thanks for responding :grin-square:
 
A team may begin play with one player present. Upon completion of
each individual match, the team must have another player available for
play or the remaining match(es) will be forfeited. In other words, PLAY
MUST BE CONTINUOUSONCE BEGUN.
 
TheNewSharkster said:
A team may begin play with one player present. Upon completion of
each individual match, the team must have another player available for
play or the remaining match(es) will be forfeited. In other words, PLAY
MUST BE CONTINUOUSONCE BEGUN.
Click to expand...
I understand that Sharkster, what I don't understand is "how many points should we have received"??

I read that to mean we will receive wins for all forfeited matches.
 
TheNewSharkster said:
A team may begin play with one player present. Upon completion of
each individual match, the team must have another player available for
play or the remaining match(es) will be forfeited. In other words, PLAY
MUST BE CONTINUOUSONCE BEGUN.
Click to expand...


Yep, that's my understanding as well. You should end up 5-0 for the night, because you had players ready to play. Maybe there was some confusion on the league operator's part. Hopefully you'll get the points you're owed in the end.
 
If it wasn't in the last four weeks of the session, or it wasn't the playoffs, couldn't one of the opposing players (we would've let BOTH of them in our league) have played two matches. Maybe this is why you only got credit for three wins, because by not naming a player or players of their team to shoot twice (and this is done before the first match starts) your team actually forfeited to them. I don't know if this is the answer or not, just trying to put another possibility into the mix. I'm sure when your LO contacts you, he/she is gonna have the answer.

Maniac
 
Maniac said:
If it wasn't in the last four weeks of the session, or it wasn't the playoffs, couldn't one of the opposing players (we would've let BOTH of them in our league) have played two matches. Maybe this is why you only got credit for three wins, because by not naming a player or players of their team to shoot twice (and this is done before the first match starts) your team actually forfeited to them. I don't know if this is the answer or not, just trying to put another possibility into the mix. I'm sure when your LO contacts you, he/she is gonna have the answer.

Maniac
Click to expand...
It was week 14 of a 15 week season, we're in 1st place by 4 points prior to this match. The standings as they are right now has us up 4 points with 1 week to play. We're playing the 2nd place team in week 15.
I realize with the standings as is we only need one win to lock up 1st but if we are entitled to the full 5 points then we will have already clinched. I like that scenario better:grin:
 
George said:
It was week 14 of a 15 week season, we're in 1st place by 4 points prior to this match. The standings as they are right now has us up 4 points with 1 week to play. We're playing the 2nd place team in week 15.
I realize with the standings as is we only need one win to lock up 1st but if we are entitled to the full 5 points then we will have already clinched. I like that scenario better:grin:
Click to expand...

Well, in that case, IMO your team should have received 5 points. I just can't see any reason in the rules or by my experience that tells me otherwise.

Maniac
 
George said:
I understand that Sharkster, what I don't understand is "how many points should we have received"??

I read that to mean we will receive wins for all forfeited matches.
Click to expand...


Yes, you should get a point for each match that was forfeited. So if you played 3 and won 3 and forfeited 2 it would be 5-0. Be sure to make reference to the manual if the LO gives you any crap.
 
Thanks for all the responses guys. You've all pretty much got the same take on it that I do. Our league operator has always seemed to be a fair guy and I'm sure it's just an error by the league when entering our info(I know the scoresheet was filled out properly).......our LO has about 300 teams that play on a weekly basis. That's a lot of scoresheets to handle, I'm sure he'll straighten it out. Thanks for all the input.:)

 
Now I'm pi$$ed

We just got an email response and were told to refer to the "local by-laws". I found this local by-law on the league website and it makes NO SENSE to me at all:

http://ripoolplayers.com/common/pdf/bylaws.pdf

"7. FORFEITS - IF A TEAM FAILS TO SHOW FOR A NIGHTS MATCH THE OPPOSING TEAM WILL RECEIVE THEIR AVERAGE WIN POINTS OR 4, WHICHEVER IS GREATER ( 4.5 AVERAGE AND UP WILL BE 5) AND AVERAGE OR 80 IN 9 BALL.
THERE ARE NO COMPLETE TEAM FORFEITS THE FIRST WEEK.
? IF THE OPPOSING TEAM SHOWS UP AND PLAYS 3 OR MORE PLAYERS ON A GIVEN NIGHT YOU WILL RECEIVE POINTS FOR ALL MATCHES WON (+) REMAINING FORFEITS.
? IF THE OPPOSING TEAM SHOWS UP AND PLAYS 2 OR LESS PLAYERS ON A GIVEN NIGHT YOU RECEIVE YOUR AVERAGE, 4 OR 80 POINTS, WHICHEVER IS GREATER.
? TEAMS WHICH EXCEED 5 FORFEIT POINTS ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR THE WILD CARD.
? TEAMS THAT DO NOT SHOW UP FOR THE LAST 4 WEEKS WILL FORFEIT ANY PRIZE MONIES, DEEMED INELIGIBLE FOR THE WILD CARD, AND BE REQUIRED TO PAY $135 PRIOR TO THE NEXT SESSION."

Where this refers to points it is as follows: you get 1 point for each match won and 1 point per week for mailing your score sheet in on time. This can earn you a total of 6 points if you win all 5 of your matches.

I've attached a link for your perusal.....let me know what you think.
 
IF THE OPPOSING TEAM SHOWS UP AND PLAYS 3 OR MORE PLAYERS ON A GIVEN NIGHT YOU WILL RECEIVE POINTS FOR ALL MATCHES WON (+) REMAINING FORFEITS.


That tells me you should get the 2 points for the forfeit since you played 3 of the matches.
 
Nevermind. After re-reading your original post I see you only had two matches. Sorry to hear about the crappy by laws.
 
George said:
This should be fairly simple to answer. ;)

Monday we show up at our opponents club for our match(we're visitors) and they only have one player present. He says other players are on the way he thinks. 7:35 we get started and during that first match another player shows up. Long and short of it, we win both and there's no one there to play. We then waited 30 minutes(we know these guys) and still no player. We write up last 3 matches as forfeits and sent in the scoresheet.
This morning we received this weeks paperwork and we see that we were only given 3 total wins:mad: ........this can't be correct IMO. Does any have a clearer understanding of the rule than I got from the manual????

Pages 20 and 21:
http://www.poolplayers.com/materials.html

The manual leads me to believe we should get 5 wins. Am I wrong?
We did have 7 players there ready to play.
Click to expand...

Am I the ONLY one who reads this as you playing JUST 2 matches...in that case you get what ever your weekly average is as per local rules stated?
 
IF THE OPPOSING TEAM SHOWS UP AND PLAYS 3 OR MORE PLAYERS ON A GIVEN NIGHT YOU WILL RECEIVE POINTS FOR ALL MATCHES WON (+) REMAINING FORFEITS.
? IF THE OPPOSING TEAM SHOWS UP AND PLAYS 2 OR LESS PLAYERS ON A GIVEN NIGHT YOU RECEIVE YOUR AVERAGE, 4 OR 80 POINTS, WHICHEVER IS GREATER.


Ok, this will be my last post in this thread.

You played only two matches so you are not eligble for all forfeits. However you should have got 4 total points. IF THE OPPOSING TEAM SHOWS UP AND PLAYS 2 OR LESS PLAYERS you get your average, 4 or 80. Unless your average is above 4 win per week you should get 4 (since it is greater). The 80 only applies to 9ball.
 
TheNewSharkster said:
IF THE OPPOSING TEAM SHOWS UP AND PLAYS 3 OR MORE PLAYERS ON A GIVEN NIGHT YOU WILL RECEIVE POINTS FOR ALL MATCHES WON (+) REMAINING FORFEITS.
? IF THE OPPOSING TEAM SHOWS UP AND PLAYS 2 OR LESS PLAYERS ON A GIVEN NIGHT YOU RECEIVE YOUR AVERAGE, 4 OR 80 POINTS, WHICHEVER IS GREATER.


Ok, this will be my last post in this thread.

You played only two matches so you are not eligble for all forfeits. However you should have got 4 total points. IF THE OPPOSING TEAM SHOWS UP AND PLAYS 2 OR LESS PLAYERS you get your average, 4 or 80. Unless your average is above 4 win per week you should get 4 (since it is greater). The 80 only applies to 9ball.
Click to expand...

That's the way I'm reading the by-laws. But then your dealing with the APA, which I have always found to be a bit too lenient when it comes to enforcing rules (at least in the area that I play in).

Maniac
 
I think many LOs have had to create by-laws to contain cheating. If two "buddy" teams play each other and just forfeit to give the other team all five points how fair is that for the other teams that are playing pool for points.

Also, many teams that are out of contention sometimes just don't care to show up for the last couple of weeks. Seems like this LO is addressing that as well. Certainly isn't fair to to have a team fighting for a position in the last week not have the opportunity to play for the potential of a 5-0.

Now that you know this by-law perhaps you will offer the other team a free drink if they show up instead of not playing happily thinking you are getting all 5.
 
Bigkahuna said:
I think many LOs have had to create by-laws to contain cheating. If two "buddy" teams play each other and just forfeit to give the other team all five points how fair is that for the other teams that are playing pool for points.
Click to expand...

THE "BUDDY" TEAM WOULD WANT TO PLAY AND LOSE.....THAT HELPS THEIR AVERAGE AS WELL AS HELPING THE WINNING TEAM GET POINTS.

I KNOW THE APA DOESN'T ALLOW "SANDBAGGING", BUT I'D THINK THAT ANY TEAM WILLING TO FORFEIT, WOULD ALSO BE WILLING TO "DUMP" TO KEEP THIER S/L'S DOWN.

P.S. IN THE SCENARIO LISTED, YOUR TEAM SHOULD GET EITHER 4 POINTS, OR YOUR WEEKLY AVERAGE. WHICHEVER IS HIGHER.
 
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