APA Members! What is your rating, and do you feel like it is accurate?

California Fats

California Fats

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A few months ago, I posted a thread asking what everyone thought of the APA before I joined. The consensus seemed to be that it is a fun night out, but not a very competitive organization. I started a team with my girlfriend, family members, and friends, so that was exactly what we were looking for.

The only thing that bothers me is the lack of consistency with the ratings the computer spits out for our team. We have 1 guy who has only won 2 of his 9 matches, yet has never been lower than a 3. That is juxtaposed by one of our guys that has won 8 of his 11 matches, but has never been rated higher than a 2. Even stranger, we had one guy get uprated to a 5 on a week where he lost.. He went on to lose the next 3 in a row, and stayed as a 5. What gives??

I am currently a 6 in 9-Ball, and personally, I think that is accurate. What about you guys?
 
My understanding is its easier to go up than down. Its some mathematical formula that I don't think is all that accurate. Also it is not to hard to win the match as a 2 since they only have to win a couple games.
 
kenny_74 said:
My understanding is its easier to go up than down. Its some mathematical formula that I don't think is all that accurate. Also it is not to hard to win the match as a 2 since they only have to win a couple games.
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Oh most definitely, but using your logic (that I 100 percent agree with), why would he still be a 2 after so many wins? More importantly, why would someone with an abysmal record stay a 3? It's just not consistent.

Both players started at the exact same time.
 
I'm a 6 and I think I would be a 5 in my league. .....
I see 5's run 2 or 3 racks and don't go up
I'm a 6 and can't go down and the league owner will not change it or make it fair imo
 
Search the net and you will find some info on how the system works. The reason a 2 who is on a winning streak does not go up, is that they are winning but taking more than (on recollection) 7 innings. At some point, if they have won more than 50% of their best 10 of the last 20 games they won, they will go up even though they are averaging more than 7 innings per game. Winning or loosing has very little to do with the calculations. Hope this makes sense. Steve
 
California Fats said:
Oh most definitely, but using your logic (that I 100 percent agree with), why would he still be a 2 after so many wins? More importantly, why would someone with an abysmal record stay a 3? It's just not consistent.

Both players started at the exact same time.
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A 6 can run the rack and miss last ball then the 2 makes the 8. I haven't done 9 ball yet but from what I understand you need less balls to win. So that means even a 2 can run some balls they are just not as consistent in shape.

I am very new to APA only been playing just over a month and now a 5 in 8 ball after 7 matches. Hopefully will play 9 ball soon too. I played a 3 today and had to win 4, she could shoot and had me nervous but in the end you could tell why she was only a 3. So honestly I think it just takes time for it to change and without knowing for sure how its all calculated there is no way to know. I do know people complain about sand bagging in 9 ball.
 
I'm a 5 in both 8-ball and 9-ball. For my area, I believe its accurate.

Against other areas, probably not. A 5 who can run two racks, someone mentioned above? I haven't seen a 6 here do that, nor the 7's....
 
I'm a SL5 in 8-ball and 9-ball.
I think the rating system is flawed.

I played my first 8-ball match as a SL4 and played against another "SL4". I lost by one game with a total of 7 innings in the match. I was bumped down to a SL3. Played as a SL3 beating SL5's and 6's for three weeks before they bumped me to a SL4. Then after 7 or so more weeks I was bumped to a SL5. I've been stuck as a 5 since. I don't care much what they rank me, I just find it inaccurate.

I played my first 9-ball match as a SL4, broke and ran twice and won 18-2. I was bumped to a SL5 and haven't moved since.
 
I'm a 7 in eight ball...it's accurate. The problem with APA is more along the lines of everything is geared towards lesser players and the ability to sandbag. The double reduction regularly hurts 7's and sometimes 6's. Sandbagging is as rampant today as it was over a decade ago, if not worse. They need a new handicap system that doesn't use innings. NAPA seems to have found the cure, win and go up, lose and go down. You simply can't go down and win. Until APA gets in line with a similar system, it will always be full of folks who think they can cheat the system. APA has a failsafe, but it takes roughly 20 matches to kick in. That's a lot of sandbagging and winning along the way. Sometimes covering up to 2 full sessions of other teams bearing the burden of it. Also, at the national level, teams that get caught sandbagging aren't usually dismissed until well into the tournaments and all of the teams they beat are already out and receive no recompense. It's just a mess. They exist because of the lure of Vegas. I just wish they'd fix their system and then maybe I'd play APA again. Until then, mostly you will find 7's are where they should be. Every other handicap is a toss up because you don't know who is sandbagging and who isn't unless you really know pool and the players themselves. The better players can usually tell very easily who is sandbagging.
 
SwissChris said:
I'm a 6 and I think I would be a 5 in my league. .....
I see 5's run 2 or 3 racks and don't go up
I'm a 6 and can't go down and the league owner will not change it or make it fair imo
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Dude, the finally moved you up to a 6 :) Man, you got nothing to complain about... you rode the Five Horse till the cows came home.... you know they were finally gonna come for ya :)
 
You just wait! The thing that'll really fry your nads is when you start (or have the occasion/opportunity) to play people from other areas and other parts of the country. You'll get into a match with another 6 from somewhere else and you won't believe that they are a 6. They either can't run 2 balls in a row, or you'll get one chance to shoot every 3 racks. In you home area they'd either be a 3 or a 9. Boy, that will piss you off, but realize that sometimes you'll be the player they can't believe is rated where they are. As for your team it may take at least several sessions before your skill levels show some accuracy and consistancy.
Just play your best, don't worry about the S/L's, and have a good time with it, it all evens out in the end.
 
For the most part, it's fairly accurate. Some people's games just fluctuate more, plus the variance between a low or high rating(3.1 vs 3.9, for example). I'm a 7/9 and from what I've seen, even the people claiming to sandbag usually can't play much better than what they're rated. Give a "4" that should be a 5 an open table and my money is on them messing it up more often than not. I just play my game and tell my friends to do the same.
 
for the most part it is pretty accurate in my area.

we do have a few i suspect are sandbaging.

let me give you just 2 examples of why i suspect these guys are sandbagging.

both are 5's like me. we all play napa also. let me add my team mate who is a 5 also.

my team mate is a 43 in napa who i have been telling my lo should be an apa 4. he has a 42% kifetime record in napa and is ranked 80TH.

i am a 58 in napa with a 52% lifetime record and am ranked 51st.

one of the other guys is an 80 in napa ...dont recall his lifetime but he is currently ranked 17th. his apa record this session is 78 % and still a 5. i have a friend who is an apa 7 and is only a 72 in napa and ranked 30th. how the hell is that guy above a 5 unless he is sandbagging ?

the other guy is a 68 with 11 wins out of his last 12 matches and ranked 26th. his apa record this last session is 42% . how the hell does this guy manage to win 11 out of 12 in napa and only win 4 out of 11 in apa .

both of the above players spot me 2 and 3 games respectively in napa yet i gotta play them even in apa.

but again for most in my area i say their skill levels are pretty accurate.

i remember when i 1st went up to a 5 in 9 ball. i lost every match that session. 12 matches in a row before i was lowered back to a 4. that was 2 years ago . 2 sessions later i was raised back to a 5 and am now locked in at that s/l nationally due to going to vegas last year. even with that 12 in a row loss my lifetime win % is still 53 %.
 
Your APA SL is based on average innings per match in your last 20 matches. Before you have played 10 matches it can be a little more random as each match matters more to your overall average. Once you play 20 it will make way more sense. Don't worry about it just try to improve. Your SL will take care of itself. Make sure to keep accurate track of innings and always mark all safeties they keep our SL's accurate.

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I think it's accurate

I'm not playing APA right now, but I've played APA masters, and APA open. I would be a 7 in 8 ball open, which is my favorite game. As for the examples you've listed, let's use this example. Let's say I'm in a slump. (I don't do slumps anymore) lol,...and a SL4 beats me but it takes 4 innings and he barely beats me and most of my balls were pocketed...same thing happens 3 weeks in a row because I suck and I'm weak. The SL4 should creep up if anything, and the 7 should drop. Drop slow, because we all know what he's capable of, and we all know he's gonna get it back.

Now, let's say a SL7 has dropped to a SL6, has won the last 3 games, but all on the hill, after 4 innings on average...I think that we can all agree that he shouldn't get bumped up to a 7 yet cuz 7's run out and don't need 4 innings to do it. They don't go to hill hill very often with anyone. The 7 is just plain old off his game, even tho he's been winning. Many players in this case would be confused at why he hasn't moved up. That's why they need the expertise and structure that a league like APA provides!

A good SL7 should have about a 3 ball spread against his opponents on average...even taking into account the occasional losses, because the occasional bad games and losses should be offset by the frequent ERO's and break n runs.

I've played in MANY different leagues, and have found them ALL to be incredibly accurate. It's just a matter of understanding how they rate it. Take the time to get to know how they do it. It will be hard to argue why the player is rated what they are once you understand it.

It's complicated and confusing sometimes, my best advice is to just trust the rating system, I promise you it's accurate. And I'm not trying to protect APA, I'm actually not a huge fan. As a 7, hell, nobody even wants a 7 in my area, they cripple the team with their high rating. That's why there's so many sandbaggers.. If I sandbagged down to a 5 or 6...I'd be a hot commodity. Not my style. Sandbaggers are holding themselves back IMO, they will actually start believing that they are only as good as their rating after a while, and they will lose their heart and get used to losing. Cuz winning is a habit. And losing is a habit. They are developing dangerous habits of losing just to drop a point. Bring em on, I'm a winner. I will cut thru their weak mindset and be triumphant in the end, even with the spread.
 
Its accurate. Once you are a 6, you can drop to a 5. But you will NEVER be able to drop any further. It takes extraordinary circumstances, such as a physical disability, to drop 2 or more spots. It doesnt matter how bad you play, or how many you lose. A 5 can never e a 3 again. A 7 can never be a 5 again. Plus there are other factors. If a 6 has 5 innings per game, and wins, 5 innings will not be entered. They give what is called an applied score....based on your win percentage. There might be a 2.3 entered if you have a 70 percent w/L record. They do this because they expect a 6 to win in 2 innings. JUST AN EXAMPLE. I may be off a little.
 
One of the biggest problems with apa is the score keeping. People simply don't count defensive shots as they should. By apa definition, a defensive shot is not just a safety but any shot where there wasn't an attempt to make the ball. This makes a significant difference in the defensive shot count, particularly with lower level players. This impacts the inning count which is a primary factor in determining skill level.

No doubt there is sandbagging but it wouldn't be as prevalent if score keepers would keep accurate count of defensive shots and innings.
 
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nobcitypool said:
One of the biggest problems with apa is the score keeping. People simply don't count defensive shots as they should. By apa definition, a defensive shot is not just a safety but any shot where there wasn't an attempt to make the ball. This makes a significant different in the defensive shot count, particularly with lower level players. This impacts the inning count which is a primary factor in determining skill level.

No doubt there is sandbagging but it wouldn't be as prevalent if score keepers would keep accurate count of defensive shots and innings.
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BINGO!
This is the main reason I think its so silly to keep the details of the handicap system secret. If people understood how important accurate score keeping was they wouldn't slack on it and SL's would be more accurate.

How can our league opporators do their job correctly if the data they receive sucks.

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nobcitypool said:
One of the biggest problems with apa is the score keeping. People simply don't count defensive shots as they should. By apa definition, a defensive shot is not just a safety but any shot where there wasn't an attempt to make the ball. This makes a significant different in the defensive shot count, particularly with lower level players. This impacts the inning count which is a primary factor in determining skill level.

No doubt there is sandbagging but it wouldn't be as prevalent if score keepers would keep accurate count of defensive shots and innings.
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i have preached about score keeping many times my self. every one on my team takes turns keeping score....and yea i had to teach them what a defensive shot is lol.

i have seen many people not paying attention when keeping score....talking about what was on tv last night...playing games on i pads ..etc etc . bugs the shit outa me some times lol.
 
Isn't it funny that just like in league. Our community as a whole isn't the best or the worst of us its the average of us all. (Cue after school special theme) lol

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