apa question

[trob]

Yeah you're right... I'm clueless

Sorry there right. It's a franchise. In a pyramid every one up the line from the bottom to the top is making money. Apa is a franchise like McDonald's. You use there business model and name to make money and pay franchise fees to the corporate office for the right to do it. The only people making money in the Apa is the operator and the league office. That isn't a pyramid scheme.

 

[TheNewSharkster]

No lol everyone including the lo knows her well. She's a 2 because she started playing. Trust me they know that lol

I'm a 9. Now if I show up and start shooting left handed I can see there is a problem. Lol the fact remains there is nothing in the rule book saying you must pick lefty or righty and remain that lol

What other explanation can it be? I am not debating about legality of shooting lefty. It just seems to me that would be the only reason the LO would say it is against the rules.

 

[rhatten]

Sorry they're right.....You use there business model and name to make money and pay franchise fees to the corporate office for the right to do it. The only people making money in the Apa is the operator and the league office. That isn't a pyramid scheme.

Felt like a rip off to me when they pulled this crap after we paid them 15 weeks for the session play... They should of said something at the start of the season... not after we paid them 4 months... Ripped off. ie scheme. from "above"....

 

[leto1776]

Not sure about back in 96, but the 23 rule is clearly stated in the guidebook.

 

[cluelesscuer]

The Local LO don't like the 23 rule. They get your money by your weekly dues. It's the national office that wants the 23 rule to get new membership money.
What happens is the LO want to keep your sl down so he can have returning players play and teams not break up. But the national office is where the ponzu scheme or whatever you want to call it lies. They want more and more new players, even if they quit. Thus the 23 rule.
Because of this there is pressure from the national office to not have any team or player in singles do well in Vegas. Your LO is not rooting for you when you go to Vegas. It makes him look bad when someone plays above their SL. So that why they jump people up in citywide or tri cups and then lower them back down eve if they win for the next session.

 

[krupa]

The Local LO don't like the 23 rule. They get your money by your weekly dues. It's the national office that wants the 23 rule to get new membership money.
What happens is the LO want to keep your sl down so he can have returning players play and teams not break up. But the national office is where the ponzu scheme or whatever you want to call it lies. They want more and more new players, even if they quit. Thus the 23 rule.
Because of this there is pressure from the national office to not have any team or player in singles do well in Vegas. Your LO is not rooting for you when you go to Vegas. It makes him look bad when someone plays above their SL. So that why they jump people up in citywide or tri cups and then lower them back down eve if they win for the next session.

So any business that wants more customers is a ponzi scheme!?

This is what a ponzi scheme is:

I go out and recruit 10 people and have them pay me 10 bucks each.
Those 10 people go out and find 10 more people, get 10 bucks from them, give me 5 of those dollars and keep the other for themselves.
The new people recruited go out and find 10 more suckers who give up 10 bucks, etc, etc.
There is no product.
There is no service.
Just the people on the bottom paying the people above them for the opportunity to be somewhere in that chain.

The APA provides a service. Whether you think that service is worth your time and money is up to you, but there is no scam or scheme involved.

 

[rhatten]

So any business that wants more customers is a ponzi scheme!?

This is what a ponzi scheme is:

I go out and recruit 10 people and have them pay me 10 bucks each.
Those 10 people go out and find 10 more people, get 10 bucks from them, give me 5 of those dollars and keep the other for themselves.
The new people recruited go out and find 10 more suckers who give up 10 bucks, etc, etc.
There is no product.
There is no service.
Just the people on the bottom paying the people above them for the opportunity to be somewhere in that chain.

The APA provides a service. Whether you think that service is worth your time and money is up to you, but there is no scam or scheme involved.

OK ... yeah that's it .. I (we) were "SERVICED" by the APA's operators... I got mine... and went to Vegas 2X's.. thank YOU very much for the education on 'services' terminology.

R

 

[Celophanewrap]

I know that you hear all sorts of strange rules, so I've gotten into the habit that whenever someone tells me, "Oh, you can't do that, it's against the rules". I'll always ask, "Which one?" and hand them my rule book. It's not always that I don't believe them. I know the book pretty well, but I'm not infallible. I'd rather be educated than stupid, but you can tell when someone is trying to jerk you around. This "rule" about not switching from right to left, I might have to question that one. If that is in the book I'd certainly want to know about it.
The skill level thing, I've had players go up after they lost a match and thought to myself, "No F#@!ing way!" So I sat with our LO and had them explain it to me. Turns out it made sense after all. The thing to remember is that the "system" takes into account your last 20 match scores, throws out the worst 10 and computes your S/L. If you have players that play more than once a week it's likely that they have several matches entered at one time on whichever day the LO enters collected data. So if you play on 3 or 4 teams and your LO enters data on Thursday the system will flush the oldest of the last 20 match scores when the new ones are entered. So if like a normal S/L 4 or 5 your play is pretty inconsistant you may be replacing low scores with high ones, or high with low and this creates movement in your S/L. Or if for whatever reason (vacation, Holiday, illness...) your LO misses a week of entering data, then instead of entering 2, 3, or 4 scores, they are now entering anywhere from 2 or 4 to 10 new scores and that can make a significant difference in your S/L. I think that S/L's and data keeping in you local "Cities" or "Tri-Cup" is a little bit different of a beast and S/L's are computed after every match and looked at much more closely. I know a lot of you guys think your LO is really trying to jerk you around, but ask yourself, Why? Do you and your team occupy so much of their heart and brain that they really try to think up ways to make you miserable. Even if you're half right and they are just out to collect money then consider this: if they piss you off and you quit they can no longer collect your money and that will effect their income. That's not to say that there aren't LO's that shouldn't be in charge of a toy boat in a bath tub and you wouldn't trust them as far as you could throw them, but I believe that's more the exception than the rule. I think for the most part they're pretty decent folks that run a small business and hope to be successful at it

 

[hang-the-9]

This was tough to read and I don't really care about the APA so I just looked at the kitty in your avatar. SO CUTE!!!

I know that you hear all sorts of strange rules, so I've gotten into the habit that whenever someone tells me, "Oh, you can't do that, it's against the rules". I'll always ask, "Which one?" and hand them my rule book. It's not always that I don't believe them. I know the book pretty well, but I'm not infallible. I'd rather be educated than stupid, but you can tell when someone is trying to jerk you around. This "rule" about not switching from right to left, I might have to question that one. If that is in the book I'd certainly want to know about it.
The skill level thing, I've had players go up after they lost a match and thought to myself, "No F#@!ing way!" So I sat with our LO and had them explain it to me. Turns out it made sense after all. The thing to remember is that the "system" takes into account your last 20 match scores, throws out the worst 10 and computes your S/L. If you have players that play more than once a week it's likely that they have several matches entered at one time on whichever day the LO enters collected data. So if you play on 3 or 4 teams and your LO enters data on Thursday the system will flush the oldest of the last 20 match scores when the new ones are entered. So if like a normal S/L 4 or 5 your play is pretty inconsistant you may be replacing low scores with high ones, or high with low and this creates movement in your S/L. Or if for whatever reason (vacation, Holiday, illness...) your LO misses a week of entering data, then instead of entering 2, 3, or 4 scores, they are now entering anywhere from 2 or 4 to 10 new scores and that can make a significant difference in your S/L. I think that S/L's and data keeping in you local "Cities" or "Tri-Cup" is a little bit different of a beast and S/L's are computed after every match and looked at much more closely. I know a lot of you guys think your LO is really trying to jerk you around, but ask yourself, Why? Do you and your team occupy so much of their heart and brain that they really try to think up ways to make you miserable. Even if you're half right and they are just out to collect money then consider this: if they piss you off and you quit they can no longer collect your money and that will effect their income. That's not to say that there aren't LO's that shouldn't be in charge of a toy boat in a bath tub and you wouldn't trust them as far as you could throw them, but I believe that's more the exception than the rule. I think for the most part they're pretty decent folks that run a small business and hope to be successful at it

 

[Celophanewrap]

This was tough to read and I don't really care about the APA so I just looked at the kitty in your avatar. SO CUTE!!!

Yea, he's a good guy. Likes lite beer

 

[CreeDo]

She was told this by more than one operator?
That's a house rule (which unfortunately APA lets people get away with) and it's a moronic one.
Those guys aren't fit to run a leafblower, much less a league.
What are they afraid of, that she's using a fake "I gotta play off-hand" excuse
to rack up innings, sandbag down to a 1?

I have no idea why they'd care but I switch hands at least 5 times a match and nobody ever had an issue.

As for that comment about the 23 rule, a million people have said that and it's BS every time.
But it wouldn't surprise me if the comment caused the LO to act like a hardass.

When teams are forced to break up the APA loses a sure-thing customer
and there's zero guarantee they will go through the hassle of calling up a half dozen people
to try to form an entire new team. Often they just quit. That isn't what the APA is looking for.

The goal isn't to break up teams. The goal is to ensure all those 2's and 3's out there feel welcomed.
Thanks to that rule, people actually seek out reliable low-rank players. Without it, everyone
just wants the best possible players on their team... even if they have to give up weight.
There's only so much you can do with the spot - nobody has fun if a bunch of AAA's horsef*ck amateurs
all year, and it's not that fun for the AAA's if they have to give up so much weight that they lose
to one bad roll against someone who holds the wrong end of the cue.

 

[justadub]

She was told this by more than one operator?
That's a house rule (which unfortunately APA lets people get away with) and it's a moronic one.
Those guys aren't fit to run a leafblower, much less a league.
What are they afraid of, that she's using a fake "I gotta play off-hand" excuse
to rack up innings, sandbag down to a 1?

I have no idea why they'd care but I switch hands at least 5 times a match and nobody ever had an issue.

As for that comment about the 23 rule, a million people have said that and it's BS every time.
But it wouldn't surprise me if the comment caused the LO to act like a hardass.

When teams are forced to break up the APA loses a sure-thing customer
and there's zero guarantee they will go through the hassle of calling up a half dozen people
to try to form an entire new team. Often they just quit. That isn't what the APA is looking for.

The goal isn't to break up teams. The goal is to ensure all those 2's and 3's out there feel welcomed.
Thanks to that rule, people actually seek out reliable low-rank players. Without it, everyone
just wants the best possible players on their team... even if they have to give up weight.
There's only so much you can do with the spot - nobody has fun if a bunch of AAA's horsef*ck amateurs
all year, and it's not that fun for the AAA's if they have to give up so much weight that they lose
to one bad roll against someone who holds the wrong end of the cue.

Oh, stop making sense. This is an APA thread, we cant have that.

 

[Donkey Puncher]

I'm so sick of all these threads complaining about the APA rules.

It's a horse shit league and always has been. Just play something else, or start your own league or something.

 

[trob]

They believe that there is nothing better then the apa. and they sucker people into the belief that they're truly winning something going to vegas. even though I'll pay less money going to vegas on my own dime then what I have to pay to play in apa. (apa charges 3 times what other leagues do to play in this area) Remember your lo can raise your levels for whatever reason they see fit. They don't have to wait for the apa and it's great equalizer system to do it. you are correct ... the apa is like any franchise . one may have a great lo while the next could have one that's either not real bright or won't mind skewing the numbers to help friends.
and yes I do think they want to see teams break up. apa lo buy into the bill of goods the apa sells them. You may lose a few players when you break up teams but you will gain far more in the long run when your players go out an recruit to so they can keep there chase for that vegas dream alive lol

I know that you hear all sorts of strange rules, so I've gotten into the habit that whenever someone tells me, "Oh, you can't do that, it's against the rules". I'll always ask, "Which one?" and hand them my rule book. It's not always that I don't believe them. I know the book pretty well, but I'm not infallible. I'd rather be educated than stupid, but you can tell when someone is trying to jerk you around. This "rule" about not switching from right to left, I might have to question that one. If that is in the book I'd certainly want to know about it.
The skill level thing, I've had players go up after they lost a match and thought to myself, "No F#@!ing way!" So I sat with our LO and had them explain it to me. Turns out it made sense after all. The thing to remember is that the "system" takes into account your last 20 match scores, throws out the worst 10 and computes your S/L. If you have players that play more than once a week it's likely that they have several matches entered at one time on whichever day the LO enters collected data. So if you play on 3 or 4 teams and your LO enters data on Thursday the system will flush the oldest of the last 20 match scores when the new ones are entered. So if like a normal S/L 4 or 5 your play is pretty inconsistant you may be replacing low scores with high ones, or high with low and this creates movement in your S/L. Or if for whatever reason (vacation, Holiday, illness...) your LO misses a week of entering data, then instead of entering 2, 3, or 4 scores, they are now entering anywhere from 2 or 4 to 10 new scores and that can make a significant difference in your S/L. I think that S/L's and data keeping in you local "Cities" or "Tri-Cup" is a little bit different of a beast and S/L's are computed after every match and looked at much more closely. I know a lot of you guys think your LO is really trying to jerk you around, but ask yourself, Why? Do you and your team occupy so much of their heart and brain that they really try to think up ways to make you miserable. Even if you're half right and they are just out to collect money then consider this: if they piss you off and you quit they can no longer collect your money and that will effect their income. That's not to say that there aren't LO's that shouldn't be in charge of a toy boat in a bath tub and you wouldn't trust them as far as you could throw them, but I believe that's more the exception than the rule. I think for the most part they're pretty decent folks that run a small business and hope to be successful at it

 

[trob]

but they preach there beloved equalizer system makes every match even no matter who plays? lol since you seem to drink the apa cool aid i guess you don't believe that.
So what reason do they have for keeping the 23 rule for 9 ball? You have players that keep be 2 numbers higher then 8 ball but it's still 23? Mine asks me if I'm going to play in there scotch doubles tournaments? Well can you find me 1? because the rule for 9 ball is still you can't be more than 10 combined just like 8 ball. Never mind in 8 ball you can't get higher then a 7 lol only one reason I can think you would do that.. force teams to split up and find new players for the league. Your lo might not like it because he may lose players but I think the corporate office believes that the new players brought in will far surpass the few they lose.

She was told this by more than one operator?
That's a house rule (which unfortunately APA lets people get away with) and it's a moronic one.
Those guys aren't fit to run a leafblower, much less a league.
What are they afraid of, that she's using a fake "I gotta play off-hand" excuse
to rack up innings, sandbag down to a 1?

I have no idea why they'd care but I switch hands at least 5 times a match and nobody ever had an issue.

As for that comment about the 23 rule, a million people have said that and it's BS every time.
But it wouldn't surprise me if the comment caused the LO to act like a hardass.

When teams are forced to break up the APA loses a sure-thing customer
and there's zero guarantee they will go through the hassle of calling up a half dozen people
to try to form an entire new team. Often they just quit. That isn't what the APA is looking for.

The goal isn't to break up teams. The goal is to ensure all those 2's and 3's out there feel welcomed.
Thanks to that rule, people actually seek out reliable low-rank players. Without it, everyone
just wants the best possible players on their team... even if they have to give up weight.
There's only so much you can do with the spot - nobody has fun if a bunch of AAA's horsef*ck amateurs
all year, and it's not that fun for the AAA's if they have to give up so much weight that they lose
to one bad roll against someone who holds the wrong end of the cue.

 

[lorider]

They believe that there is nothing better then the apa. and they sucker people into the belief that they're truly winning something going to vegas. even though I'll pay less money going to vegas on my own dime then what I have to pay to play in apa. (apa charges 3 times what other leagues do to play in this area) Remember your lo can raise your levels for whatever reason they see fit. They don't have to wait for the apa and it's great equalizer system to do it. you are correct ... the apa is like any franchise . one may have a great lo while the next could have one that's either not real bright or won't mind skewing the numbers to help friends.
and yes I do think they want to see teams break up. apa lo buy into the bill of goods the apa sells them. You may lose a few players when you break up teams but you will gain far more in the long run when your players go out an recruit to so they can keep there chase for that vegas dream alive lol

i will admit i defend apa a lot on here but i do see flaws in the league as a whole.

as far as my lo goes guess i am lucky according to how some of you describe yours.
there have been a few times i have disagreed with his viewpoint but then again nobodys perfect.

 

[Banks]

but they preach there beloved equalizer system makes every match even no matter who plays? lol since you seem to drink the apa cool aid i guess you don't believe that.

They don't say it makes "every match even", they say, "everybody can play, anyone can win" or something along those lines. You've hated the APA for years, but still played.. 'nuf said. And of course they're going to market their "system" that makes games more competitive for those involved. What, are they going to market the local bar instead? Maybe they should market the fact that it's harder for "real players" to join and act like jerks to the rest of them.

 

[Celophanewrap]

I always have a great time in Las Vegas, but I'm not a hard core (or even a casual) gambler, I'm more of a hard core eater and there are a million places to get good food there. In our area it's $5 per player per match or $25 per team per match. Maybe that's not much compared to what some LO's charge in other areas. I feel like we're traeted fairly by our LO. We get a decent size "Travel Fund" is we qualify for Las Vegas. It'll always cost us something to go, but I suppose that's because I don't want to stay at Circus Circus and eat every meal at McDonalds (maybe In-N-Out though...) or bring my own beer, and I like the convenience of a car while I'm there. I feel like what we pay and what we get back is reasonable, and if we should qualify for Las Vegas I think it's pretty fair. To read what some of you guys write you'd think that some of your LO's pack 9 of you in a a 72' Volkswagon Bug and drives you to Utah and leaves you there in the middle of the desert with no money, tells you to make your way to Las Vegas if you want to play, the tournament starts tomorrow then points toward Colorado and says, "it's that way".
I get the feeling that our LO is a real Jewel in a box of crap as LO's go.

 

[trob]

They don't say it makes "every match even", they say, "everybody can play, anyone can win" or something along those lines. You've hated the APA for years, but still played.. 'nuf said. And of course they're going to market their "system" that makes games more competitive for those involved. What, are they going to market the local bar instead? Maybe they should market the fact that it's harder for "real players" to join and act like jerks to the rest of them.

our league operators will tell you that every body should have about a 500 winning percentage because there system makes every match a coin flip. lol

 

[lorider]

our league operators will tell you that every body should have about a 500 winning percentage because there system makes every match a coin flip. lol

while i would not say thats an entirely correct statement... there is some truth to that.

it all comes down to an honest effort every match by every player and accurate score keeping to ensure the most accurate handicap possible for every player.

as you know any thing can happen on any given night. i have beat 7's and lost to 1's. ...it happens.

i have played 563 matches in 3 years and have a 52% lifetime win record. you can't get much closer to a 500 record than that over that many matches.

again it all boils down to accurate scorekeeping , honest effort by each player and a lo who stays on top of watching out for sandbaggers.