APA Rankings

[Coop1701]

Hey guys and gals...
I'm hoping someone can explain the formula the APA uses to calculate your ranking. The reason I ask, is this. I'm a member of a APA 9-ball team. We have one guy on our team who plays very good as a 2 ranking. He very seldom can run more than 2 or 3 balls. However, he can win just once and gets moved up to a Skill level 3. Then he, for some odd reason doesn't play well. It takes him 3 loses to move back down to a 2. It's a never ending cycle. One win, 3 loses, one win, 3 loses.

So I can assume this...,
1.) Wins Carry more weight than loses
2.) Wins against higher and lower ranked players may carry more weight
3.) The number of innings in your match also must carry some value.

If anyone can explain this to me better, I would sincerely appreciate it.

 

[DoomCue]

Hey guys and gals...
I'm hoping someone can explain the formula the APA uses to calculate your ranking. The reason I ask, is this. I'm a member of a APA 9-ball team. We have one guy on our team who plays very good as a 2 ranking. He very seldom can run more than 2 or 3 balls. However, he can win just once and gets moved up to a Skill level 3. Then he, for some odd reason doesn't play well. It takes him 3 loses to move back down to a 2. It's a never ending cycle. One win, 3 loses, one win, 3 loses.

So I can assume this...,
1.) Wins Carry more weight than loses
2.) Wins against higher and lower ranked players may carry more weight
3.) The number of innings in your match also must carry some value.

If anyone can explain this to me better, I would sincerely appreciate it.

Hmm, I wonder why he doesn't play well after his handicap goes up.... Could it be sandbagging? Nah, that never happens in leagues....

Why do you care about how handicaps are calculated? Wouldn't you rather just have your teammates play and let handicaps fall where they may? Or is the handicap more important than the game?

The APA Equalizer system is trademarked and copyrighted by the APA, and is not published to the public.

-djb <-- just plays the damn game

 

[Coop1701]

I think it's more of a mental block than "Sandbagging". Infact I can say no one on my team would dare sandbag.

I'll be honest and say the only reason I was curious is if this player on my team is really a 2.9 instead of a 3. I'd like to know.

 

[Koop]

Hey guys and gals...
I'm hoping someone can explain the formula the APA uses to calculate your ranking. The reason I ask, is this. I'm a member of a APA 9-ball team. We have one guy on our team who plays very good as a 2 ranking. He very seldom can run more than 2 or 3 balls. However, he can win just once and gets moved up to a Skill level 3. Then he, for some odd reason doesn't play well. It takes him 3 loses to move back down to a 2. It's a never ending cycle. One win, 3 loses, one win, 3 loses.

So I can assume this...,
1.) Wins Carry more weight than loses
2.) Wins against higher and lower ranked players may carry more weight
3.) The number of innings in your match also must carry some value.

If anyone can explain this to me better, I would sincerely appreciate it.

Innings and safeties played carry the most weight. I enjoy playing in league but the sandbagging does piss me off sometimes. I just played a guy Monday night who was a five and beat me in 6 innings. And I had to give this guy weight.

Dave

 

[Coop1701]

Innings and safeties played carry the most weight. I enjoy playing in league but the sandbagging does piss me off sometimes. I just played a guy Monday night who was a five and beat me in 6 innings. And I had to give this guy weight.

Dave

Yeah it pisses me off too DDKoop. I completely understand. I see a lot of that in my area.

 

[Barbara]

Yeah it pisses me off too DDKoop. I completely understand. I see a lot of that in my area.

Ditto here in South Jersey.

After riding the s/l rollercoaster for 3 months I ended up being an s/l 6. I would really like to know how they determine that and I believe there are some players in the league that know because I was talking to a guy at my last match who knew when to pull up short to maintain his level.

Barbara

 

[Coop1701]

Ditto here in South Jersey.

After riding the s/l rollercoaster for 3 months I ended up being an s/l 6. I would really like to know how they determine that and I believe there are some players in the league that know because I was talking to a guy at my last match who knew when to pull up short to maintain his level.

Barbara

I swear sometimes I feel the exact same way.... plus I've seen so many people purposely add innings while playing. Intentionally trying to keep their ranking low. It's crazy!!!

 

[Mike Templeton]

I swear sometimes I feel the exact same way.... plus I've seen so many people purposely add innings while playing. Intentionally trying to keep their ranking low. It's crazy!!!

Coop,

Tim carrys most of the weight in Spartanburg on how people are ranked. If a team complains, or if he watches (or has someone else watch), and you seem to play better than your ranking, he will move you up without any formula information. I played there a couple of years ago, and this happened frequently. A team almost has to sandbag there to get to the playoffs.

Mike

 

[catscradle]

Ditto here in South Jersey.

After riding the s/l rollercoaster for 3 months I ended up being an s/l 6. I would really like to know how they determine that and I believe there are some players in the league that know because I was talking to a guy at my last match who knew when to pull up short to maintain his level.

Barbara

I think there is a lot less sandbagging than is perceived. Since sandbagging is a very real factor, when a person has a good or bad night within their normal range of play, the opponent automatically assumes sandbagging. When in fact, for most people it is just having a good or a bad night.

 

[Mike Templeton]

I think there is a lot less sandbagging than is perceived. Since sandbagging is a very real factor, when a person has a good or bad night within their normal range of play, the opponent automatically assumes sandbagging. When in fact, for most people it is just having a good or a bad night.

I agree. There is sandbagging, but alot of people that I see are too quick to accuse if an opponent has a good or bad night.

Mike

 

[pooltchr]

I agree, Mike. I lost Monday 17-3 to a sl-4, turned around Wendesday night and won 17-3 against an SL-7. I had a very bad night and a very good night. Most of the time, I play like a 6 or 7, but it's never going to be the same week after week.
Steve

 

[FLICKit]

Innings and safeties played carry the most weight. I enjoy playing in league but the sandbagging does piss me off sometimes. I just played a guy Monday night who was a five and beat me in 6 innings. And I had to give this guy weight.

Dave

In every system, a player can try to sandbag or intentionally try to manipulate the system. It's a fact of life. Too bad their isn't more integrity in the human race. Whenever people try to manipulate the system, there are measures that are put in place to bust the dishonest people and punish them accordingly. This happens at every level of play. Often times the best way to eliminate dishonesty and sandbagging is right at the initial point - by teammates and by other players that play against them on a weekly basis. Sometimes people would rather gripe and complain about others, than to actually take even the simplest step towards rectifying the situation (i.e. talk about it in a calm and reasonable manner with someone who can actually address the matter, like the LO. Yelling and screaming, although the natural reaction, is rarely met with success).

One of the issues is that pool is a very streaky game. Players can play great one day, and then fall off the map, the next day. We've all had those experiences, we all know what it's like. Unfortunately, the other players only see a small snapshot of the person that they believe is manipulating the system. If you see the person on that great day, then it's automatic to assume that they've been cheating. Of note though, is that if the player were really manipulating the system, it wouldn't be wise for the player to smoke you like that. The cheating player would wait until there's something on the line - money, next level. An honest player would want to smoke you no matter what the situation, because that's the way the game is played. That's what makes it fun! Sometimes people act as if, the opponent that just beat you, has sandbagged all their life, just so that they can unleash against you or your teammates. With that kind of attitude, you'll find it happening everywhere you go, and eventually get frustrated and quit the game.

Ultimately, the best way to beat any handicapping system is to do it legitimately. Every rating system is based on your past performance. So, if you improve your game, then the rating system will always be a bit behind. The APA system adjusts quicker than most other systems, so the other systems will lag even further behind your true ability. Nobody can punish you for that, because your match history will demonstrate a relatively steady climb upwards. The facts will be on your side.

 

[FLICKit]

I swear sometimes I feel the exact same way.... plus I've seen so many people purposely add innings while playing. Intentionally trying to keep their ranking low. It's crazy!!!

Intentional cheating will happen in any system.

There are two sets of scoresheets - theirs and yours. If they manipulate their scoresheet. Then you simply keep yours accurate. Your does not have to match theirs. It'll be rectified accordingly.

Many of the issues would be eliminated, if people would simply be responsible for the things that they can affect. If you succumb to pressure from them, then you contribute to the problem as well.

 

[FLICKit]

Innings and safeties played carry the most weight. I enjoy playing in league but the sandbagging does piss me off sometimes. I just played a guy Monday night who was a five and beat me in 6 innings. And I had to give this guy weight.

Dave

Here's one cold harsh reality that people never like to face.

If the guy smoked you that much. Then he was gonna beat you in a heads up match as well.

Most people's egos wouldn't want to see that.

 

[vapoolplayer]

i think i'm going to print this threat out and keep it in my wallet........that way when someone asks me why i don't play league, i can show it to them

i have more fun in idividual competition anyway.

VAP

 

[FLICKit]

Coop,

Tim carrys most of the weight in Spartanburg on how people are ranked. If a team complains, or if he watches (or has someone else watch), and you seem to play better than your ranking, he will move you up without any formula information. I played there a couple of years ago, and this happened frequently. A team almost has to sandbag there to get to the playoffs.

Mike

Sounds like he is trying to be pro-active in reducing complaints about sandbagging. I'm not sure I'd recommend his methods, based on the way you've described it.

But, to say without any information is misleading or inaccurate. He would be the one with the most information, he can see your match history, which nobody else can. Most every system has some ability for subjectively assessing one's skill level. It's much better when you have a good baseline system for determining a majority (almost all) of the players.

 

[FLICKit]

i think i'm going to print this threat out and keep it in my wallet........that way when someone asks me why i don't play league, i can show it to them

i have more fun in idividual competition anyway.

VAP

LOL... This thread is basically about dishonesty.

There is much, if not more, dishonesty in individual competition. As we all know, pool has a very bad reputation for such behavior, long before leagues ever came onto the scene and spread in such popularity.

 

[FLICKit]

I think there is a lot less sandbagging than is perceived. Since sandbagging is a very real factor, when a person has a good or bad night within their normal range of play, the opponent automatically assumes sandbagging. When in fact, for most people it is just having a good or a bad night.

Agree wholeheartedly.

 

[Mike Templeton]

Sounds like he is trying to be pro-active in reducing complaints about sandbagging. I'm not sure I'd recommend his methods, based on the way you've described it.

But, to say without any information is misleading or inaccurate. He would be the one with the most information, he can see your match history, which nobody else can. Most every system has some ability for subjectively assessing one's skill level. It's much better when you have a good baseline system for determining a majority (almost all) of the players.

FLICKit,

I agree. And Tim does a good job at keeping the handicaps in check. And I have never known him to intentionally put someone's handicap at an incorrect level. The league system there runs pretty smoothly. There are a few teams in town, though, that do sandbag. Tim just makes it harder for them to get away with it.

Mike

 

[Koop]

Here's one cold harsh reality that people never like to face.

If the guy smoked you that much. Then he was gonna beat you in a heads up match as well.

Most people's egos wouldn't want to see that.

Actually FLICKit, I said the exact same thing to my guys that night even one step further saying that even if he was giving me weight it wouldn't have mattered. I didn't shoot that bad but he was on fire. He was a great guy and we talked after the match. The table was awful but I would never use that as an excuse because we both had to play in the same conditions. He kicked my ass, period, and in no way would I accuse this guy of sandbagging.