APA Rating Question

[Gotboost95]

I don't know where in the NW you are, but I've only seen two APA players in the seattle area who might be running tables at the rate you claim.

I don't even play APA, I like my pool like I like my women--not handicapped.

So you don't play APA but you don't know but 2 APA players who can run tables at that rate... Got It

Not sure about Seattle but many of the local Portland BCA masters play APA also. Almost everyone of them can run 2 racks per 10 at least under any rules. And most of them are quite a bit better speed then me.

 

[ElCorazonFrio]

Second, we clearly live in different cultures as you just completely redefined what a run is based on the impression I got from your statement. That impression was that you RAN the table by either breaking and running or by your opponent breaking, eventually missing and then you clearing it out. Now you are going to bring in multiple innings because you either played defense or even missed a couple. At that point we can say some 4's and even 5's can "run" the table with frequency.

Oh, wow, I didn't notice that.

Carry on, then.

 

[lorider]

i saw a 6 beat my team mate who is a 7 ...5-1 in 2 innings. he had 3 break and runs in 5 racks....the 7 had 1 break and run. and no...i do not believe he is a legit s/l 6 unless he just had the best game of his life that night.

i am a 5 and i started keeping track of my innings this past week just for the heck of it.

wed night i beat a 4 by 4-1 in 18 innings with 3 defensive shots by me.

last night i beat a 5 4-1 in 19 innings with 1 defensive shot by me and 3 by him .

also beat a 7 in 9 ball by 38-48 in 24 innings with 4 defensive shots by him and 1 by me.

is my number of innings on par with s/l 5's in your area ?

i have 2 break and runs so far this session in 18 matches.

oh yea ...my best 9 ball game was 38-7 vs another 5 in 6 innings. for some reason my break was flawless that night with 1 or 2 dropping and always a shot at the lowest ball...have not been able to duplicate it since .

 

[Gotboost95]

And no 4's or 5's cannot pocket 7 balls and the eight on one turn at a rate of 2 per 10 racks. Show me that person and I'll tell you they're a sandbagger. I don't care how many innings there were. A 4 should pocket 2-3 balls per turn average and a 5 will be at about 3-5 balls per turn. Plus maybe a defense or 2 for getting themselves out of line.

i saw a 6 beat my team mate who is a 7 ...5-1 in 2 innings. he had 3 break and runs in 5 racks....the 7 had 1 break and run. and no...i do not believe he is a legit s/l 6 unless he just had the best game of his life that night.

i am a 5 and i started keeping track of my innings this past week just for the heck of it.

wed night i beat a 4 by 4-1 in 18 innings with 3 defensive shots by me.

last night i beat a 5 4-1 in 19 innings with 1 defensive shot by me and 3 by him .

also beat a 7 in 9 ball by 38-48 in 24 innings with 4 defensive shots by him and 1 by me.

is my number of innings on par with s/l 5's in your area ?

i have 2 break and runs so far this session in 18 matches.

oh yea ...my best 9 ball game was 38-7 vs another 5 in 6 innings. for some reason my break was flawless that night with 1 or 2 dropping and always a shot at the lowest ball...have not been able to duplicate it since .

It would take more matches to see if that 6 played out of his mind or not. Last year as a 6 I had one match where I had 2 8 ball breaks and 2 break and runs. But then didn't see another break and run for several weeks. I would venture to say the 6 was probably underrated and the 7 maybe a touch overrated. But could have been some unlucky rolls also.

As far as your 5 rating. Seems right about on par with what I posted the approximant speed of a APA 5 should be. 5 games played 3 balls per inning would be @15 innings plus your defenses.

I usually have between 8-10 innings in 5 to 6 games with a couple defensive shots to break out clusters or problems on bad breaks.

 

[lorider]

It would take more matches to see if that 6 played out of his mind or not. Last year as a 6 I had one match where I had 2 8 ball breaks and 2 break and runs. But then didn't see another break and run for several weeks. I would venture to say the 6 was probably underrated and the 7 maybe a touch overrated. But could have been some unlucky rolls also.

As far as your 5 rating. Seems right about on par with what I posted the approximant speed of a APA 5 should be. 5 games played 3 balls per inning would be @15 innings plus your defenses.

I usually have between 8-10 innings in 5 to 6 games with a couple defensive shots to break out clusters or problems on bad breaks.

the 7 won the lag and made a break and run. ..1-0...0 innings

the 7 breaks dry. the 6 runs 3 balls and plays safe. the 7 kicks ...makes a legal hit but nothing falls. the 6 runs out . 1-1 ...1 inning.

the 6 makes a b&r ...1-2...i inning

the 6 breaks dry. the 7 runs 6 balls but rattles his last ball . the 6 runs out . 1-3 ...2 innings.

the 6 makes a b&r . 1-4 ...2 innings.

another b&r ...1-5...2 innings

3rd b&r ...1-5 ...2 innings.

 

[Gotboost95]

the 7 won the lag and made a break and run. ..1-0...0 innings

the 7 breaks dry. the 6 runs 3 balls and plays safe. the 7 kicks ...makes a legal hit but nothing falls. the 6 runs out . 1-1 ...1 inning.

the 6 makes a b&r ...1-2...i inning

the 6 breaks dry. the 7 runs 6 balls but rattles his last ball . the 6 runs out . 1-3 ...2 innings.

the 6 makes a b&r . 1-4 ...2 innings.

another b&r ...1-5...2 innings

3rd b&r ...1-5 ...2 innings.

Well the 6 definitely isn't trying to sandbag with a match like that. Is he a newer player with less then 20 matches to sample? My guess is he started as a 4 like me and you and hasn't made it to a 7 yet. And yes I've seen 6's run that many tables in a match and then turn around and play like a 4 the next week. The difference in an APA 6 and a APA 7 is consistency. 7's seem to get out more often the not and 6's often still find the way to hook themselves half way thru or on the last ball.

 

[desmocourtney]

Does the APA use current session stats, lifetime stats or a blend of both to determine handicap?

Do 8 ball stats have any weight in 9 ball determinations?

BTW, I loves me some handicaped wimmens.

 

[IbeAnEngineer]

I played APA for about 14 years. And I believe that your handicap is based on an average from your BEST performances going back a certain number of matches. So, if you are winning your matches performing as a say a 5 handicap but are losing your matches as a 3 the computer will go back and pull the best 20 or 30 scores and work your stats from those scores.

You hear people complain all the time that they lost 60% of their matches in a session and don't go down in handicap. That is because they crushed it for several sessions prior and the computer is using the best scores from the last several sessions to set their average. Think of your average as what you can and have performed at and not what you are currently performing at.

 

[gutshot]

It's best 10 matches out of the last 20. Click on my link earlier (go toward the bottom) in this thread and it tells you all you need to know in calculating the handicap.

I played APA for about 14 years. And I believe that your handicap is based on an average from your BEST performances going back a certain number of matches. So, if you are winning your matches performing as a say a 5 handicap but are losing your matches as a 3 the computer will go back and pull the best 20 or 30 scores and work your stats from those scores.

You hear people complain all the time that they lost 60% of their matches in a session and don't go down in handicap. That is because they crushed it for several sessions prior and the computer is using the best scores from the last several sessions to set their average. Think of your average as what you can and have performed at and not what you are currently performing at.

 

[Celophanewrap]

I have been lead to understand that the computer takes your last 20 matches, then takes the best 10 from that group and figures your S/L from those best 10 of your last 20. Another thing you need to remember is "implied innings". If you are unfamiliar with that term in the APA, "implied (applied?) innings" means that when you do win, you only get credit for the innings that you SHOULD HAVE played. For instance, I think the range for an S/L 5 is something like 3.5 - 4.3 (or something like that, within that range your win percentage places you at a high 5 (near 3.5) or a low 5 (near 4.3). So as a high three you beat an S/L 4 4-1. Your winning games total 22 innings with one defensive shot for an average of 5.25 innings per game. That goes into the computer, then the computer sees that you are an S/L 5 with a win percentage of 88 putting you at (about) 3.7. In then adjusts your game innings to 3.7 and possibly your win percentage increases to 89 or 90 no placing you at 3.5. So when you win the most innings you can record is what the computer thinks you should have.
My math may be a little off, but that's the general idea, at least as I understand it

 

[ctyhntr]

Not every APA territory offer APA-9 or any other APA league offering other than 8-ball. AFAIK, no as APA 8-ball and APA 9-ball are considered separate leagues. I've seen players with different handicaps, one for 8-ball, and a separate one for 9-ball. Usually it doesn't raise an eyebrow unless the handicaps spread is wide, ie SL7 for 8-ball, and SL2 for 9-ball.

Does the APA use current session stats, lifetime stats or a blend of both to determine handicap?

Do 8 ball stats have any weight in 9 ball determinations?

BTW, I loves me some handicaped wimmens.

 

[Skippy27]

A 2 way shot is not a defense. Show me in the APA rule book where it ways that. It clearly states an attempt to pocket a ball. A 2 way shot is just that an attempt to pocket a ball.

I am not saying a 2 way shot was as I clearly said it was not.

And if your paying attention a 100 inning table run is a table run in APA. If all 7 of your balls and the eight are pocketed on 1 turn. I thought that is what we were discussing was APA here.

Where in the APA handbook does it specify what a table run is? I was just clarifying that you very loosely used the term "run" when I was looking at it from another angle as I specified.

And no 4's or 5's cannot pocket 7 balls and the eight on one turn at a rate of 2 per 10 racks. Show me that person and I'll tell you they're a sandbagger. I don't care how many innings there were. A 4 should pocket 2-3 balls per turn average and a 5 will be at about 3-5 balls per turn. Plus maybe a defense or 2 for getting themselves out of line.

Your personal opinion does not matter and yes there are legitimately rated 4's and 5's that can clear the table after someone opens it up for them 2 out of 10 games. Hell by your definition of run (they can make safeties and make close misses) it wouldn't surprise me if they did it more than that. But for you to say that no 4's and 5's have the ability to actually hit in 8 balls in one string at a rate of 2:10 is just silly.

 

[fastone371]

This all sounds very confusing and complicated..
I am glad we play BCAPL instead of APA up here, sounds like you need a full time score keeper. Also, please correct me if I am wrong, (I know you will even if I don't ask) but the way I understand in APA is you may show up for league night but you might not even get to shoot depending on how teams and points match up, correct??

 

[Celophanewrap]

This all sounds very confusing and complicated..
I am glad we play BCAPL instead of APA up here, sounds like you need a full time score keeper. Also, please correct me if I am wrong, (I know you will even if I don't ask) but the way I understand in APA is you may show up for league night but you might not even get to shoot depending on how teams and points match up, correct??

Yes, that's correct. You can have up to 8 players per team but you play only five matches on any league night. So you might be relegated to just drinking for the evening

 

[ctyhntr]

In my BCA team leagues, we could have up to 6 players on the roster for the 4 matches each night. If everyone showed up, then 2 of us will go home not playing. APA format allows up to 8 players on the team, and there are 5 matches.

APA 8-ball is marketed towards beginners and intermediates, that's one of the reason for 23 point cap. The APA also offers a Masters league with no skill limit and no handicap restriction.

This all sounds very confusing and complicated..
I am glad we play BCAPL instead of APA up here, sounds like you need a full time score keeper. Also, please correct me if I am wrong, (I know you will even if I don't ask) but the way I understand in APA is you may show up for league night but you might not even get to shoot depending on how teams and points match up, correct??

 

[Gotboost95]

First off, I am a 6.

Second, we clearly live in different cultures as you just completely redefined what a run is based on the impression I got from your statement. That impression was that you RAN the table by either breaking and running or by your opponent breaking, eventually missing and then you clearing it out. Now you are going to bring in multiple innings because you either played defense or even missed a couple. At that point we can say some 4's and even 5's can "run" the table with frequency.

Third, to your point of me being defensive heavy. Maybe I am, but if I see you try to make a ball appropriate for you skill (your 3 rail bank to get shape) then it is not a safety. Having a 2 way shot that would leave you good if you made it but leave your opponent bad if you missed is not a safety. Trying a tough shot knowing if you miss you will leave your opponent good is completely the opposite of a safety. However, if you then walk over to your table and are questioned on it and I hear you say to them..... "I was knew I wasnt going to make it so I tried to hide it behind here" - safety marked. That is the part of paying attention.

So if you dry break and your opponent runs a few of their balls but then misses. You come back to the table and run everything. That's not considered a table run? What's the difference between that and playing 5 innings with 5 defenses and running it out?

And yes regardless of yours or my definitions of table run. I break and run or table run 1-2 a week for a league match. I don't see why that is so hard for some to believe. It's really not that great of an accomplishment. Like the guy posted above. I've seen armatures have 4 or 5 break and runs in a race to 5 match.

 

[ctyhntr]

If you're playing in APA 8-ball or 9-ball, make sure you mark break and runs on the scoresheet so you can get your patch.

So if you dry break and your opponent runs a few of their balls but then misses. You come back to the table and run everything. That's not considered a table run? What's the difference between that and playing 5 innings with 5 defenses and running it out?

And yes regardless of yours or my definitions of table run. I break and run or table run 1-2 a week for a league match. I don't see why that is so hard for some to believe. It's really not that great of an accomplishment. Like the guy posted above. I've seen armatures have 4 or 5 break and runs in a race to 5 match.

 

[DaveM]

Always thought 'break and run" meant you broke and ran the table, game over. Opponent never leaves his/her seat.

 

[Gotboost95]

Always thought 'break and run" meant you broke and ran the table, game over. Opponent never leaves his/her seat.

That is exactly what a break and run is. But APA also keeps track of table runs. We were just debating what constitutes a table run.

And so far had a good morning of practice. I broke and ran 4 out of my first 6 racks of 8 ball this morning.

 

[DaveM]

Ok a little new to APA. Didn't know there were table runs as well. I see mini slams on my APA website but no table runs. Not sure what a mini slam is lol....never did one.