APA rules question

I believe you need to determine what the definition of Regular Shooting Cue is.

If the only time you touch your breaker is to break and jump, is it considered your regular shooting cue?

Also, however the rules may be interpreted by your local LO, they may be different during playoffs when they are on the national level.
 
Last edited:
This has come up before on here and here is my opinion.. I think its pretty cut and dry myself.

If you choose to shoot an entire match with an alex brick jump break its still a jump break ....or specialty cue and therefore illegal to use to jump with.

If you buy a player and put a buffalo tip on it to break with to save the shape of the tip or your player its still a playing cue and legal to jump with ...imo .

i am just going on the thought of how the cue was manufactured as a playing cue and putting a hard tip on it does not make it a specialty cue even ic you use it just to break with . If that was the case every one who put a sniper or any hard tip on their player would be suddenly turning it into a specialty cue.

Along those same lines....i have a playing cue with a built in extension. You unscrew pqrt if the butt counter clock wise and pull the butt until it stops...about 4 inches and then turn it clockwise to lock it in place. Its been called and illegal cue although the rules state extensions are legal. Go figure lol.. Its a players cue i bought 10 years ago brand new for a 100 dollars. Never seen another one like it around here.
 
jokrswylde said:
... I have never seen a player alternate between two regular shooters in the same match. ...
Click to expand...
I believe that Alex Pagulayan was using a more or less normal cue and a longer cue in matches. He went to the long one rather than put on an extension.
 
logical said:
Or does it. I could read it as saying that a combo (3 piece) jump-break cue can be used for break only. Does that restriction apply to any break cue or just a jump-break cue.

Sent from the future.
Click to expand...


Break Cues – Sometimes combined with jump cues to form a jump-break cue, these cues are allowed in Tournament play for breaking only.

Seems pretty clear. They identify the item by name, then offer variations on that item's configuration which still fall under that same identification, then follow that by stating when and how that item can be used.
 
Rickhem said:
Break Cues – Sometimes combined with jump cues to form a jump-break cue, these cues are allowed in Tournament play for breaking only.

Seems pretty clear. They identify the item by name, then offer variations on that item's configuration which still fall under that same identification, then follow that by stating when and how that item can be used.
Click to expand...
It's vague. They say "break cue," but they don't specify it to the extent that you can determine if a cue is a break cue or not. For example, is a lightweight "play cue" with a hard tip that you use mostly for breaking a break cue? Or does it have to declared by the maker to be a break cue?
 
A 'Regular Playing Cue' is a cue that you play all your shots with after the break.
If the above is adhered to then you may also break with this cue and it is not deemed as a break cue.

A 'Break Cue' is any cue you use to break with, then swap to another cue to play the shots after the break.

Seems straight forward to me.
 
What is very clear is that the rules as written are not very clear.

Maybe Balls wrote them?

Sent from the future.
 
YoungAtHeart said:
A 'Regular Playing Cue' is a cue that you play all your shots with after the break.
If the above is adhered to then you may also break with this cue and it is not deemed as a break cue.

A 'Break Cue' is any cue you use to break with, then swap to another cue to play the shots after the break.

Seems straight forward to me.
Click to expand...

But it's not. If I have two identical cues, except for the tips, and I break with one, but also use it for jump shots, does that make it a break cue?
 
jviss said:
But it's not. If I have two identical cues, except for the tips, and I break with one, but also use it for jump shots, does that make it a break cue?
Click to expand...

No. Here are the rules about breaking with your regular shooting cue:

Breaking with your regular playing cue doesn't make it a "Breaking Cue" according to the rule book (page 38). Also, performing a jump shot with your regular cue doesn't make it a "Jump Cue". Below is a copy/paste of the rules directly out of the rule book:
"Regular Shooting Cues - These cues may be used to perform jump shots, massé shots and break shots in all APA League and Tournament play. You may not “break down” your Regular Shooting Cue to perform a jump shot.

NOTE 1: Using a regular shooting cue to break does not qualify it as a “break cue”."
 
UGC said:
No. Here are the rules about breaking with your regular shooting cue:

Breaking with your regular playing cue doesn't make it a "Breaking Cue" according to the rule book (page 38). Also, performing a jump shot with your regular cue doesn't make it a "Jump Cue". Below is a copy/paste of the rules directly out of the rule book:
"Regular Shooting Cues - These cues may be used to perform jump shots, massé shots and break shots in all APA League and Tournament play. You may not “break down” your Regular Shooting Cue to perform a jump shot.

NOTE 1: Using a regular shooting cue to break does not qualify it as a “break cue”."
Click to expand...

Yes, that's exactly my point, and is contrary to the assertion of the person to whom I was replying.
 
Below is the exact question (copy/paste) that I sent to APA (Just waiting to hear their official ruling):

"If I have two regular playing cues (58in long), one with a soft leather tip, and one with a hard leather tip; per the Team Manual on page 39, where the rule states: "You may change cues and/or cue shafts during a game provided the cues and/or shafts you are switching to do not violate any rules of use, and you remain within the time guidelines."

During a game, if I am playing with the playing cue with a soft leather tip, and I want to change (because of the shot) to the playing cue with the hard leather tip, can I do that anytime I want? And if not, what rule am I breaking? Thanks."
 
jviss said:
But it's not. If I have two identical cues, except for the tips, and I break with one, but also use it for jump shots, does that make it a break cue?
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter if the cues are the same except for the tip.
The answer to your question is: Yes, that makes it a Break Cue.

You clearly say you break with it and do jump shots with it.
So I presume you are not using it for all the normal shots inbetween.

So.
Now it is a break cue.
When you start using it as your regular playing cue aswell (ie doing other the other normal shots with it aswell). It's only at this point it stops being a break cue.
 
YoungAtHeart said:
It doesn't matter if the cues are the same except for the tip.
The answer to your question is: Yes, that makes it a Break Cue.

You clearly say you break with it and do jump shots with it.
So I presume you are not using it for all the normal shots inbetween.

So.
Now it is a break cue.
When you start using it as your regular playing cue aswell (ie doing other the other normal shots with it aswell). It's only at this point it stops being a break cue.
Click to expand...

1. Please cite the rule, or the paragraph or section of the rule book, that states that;
2. if I start using it as a playing cue at some point during the game, and it ceases to be a break cue at that point, then the designation as a break cue earlier is useless: your statement makes no sense.

Further evidence that your assertion does not make sense is this, from the APA rulebook:

"Regular Shooting Cues – These cues may be used to perform jump shots, massé shots and break shots in all APA League and Tournament play."

So, I have two regular playing cues. One is lighter, and has a hard tip, and I use that one for breaking and jump shots. It's not a break cue, or a jump cue.

It's one thing to interpret the rules; it's an entirely different matter to make up rules, or add detail to a rule where none exists.
 
Last edited:
Yes you are looking for a loophole.

What ever cue you use to play your match with us "YOUR" regular cue.
If that cue happens to be a xyz break cue then you may use it to perform any shots you wish including breaking as long as you don't break it down.

No you can not switch to "YOUR" break cue to jump, masse etc. Even if said cue has a regular leather tip no tip of whatever.

The rule doesn't say "a" regular cue! It states "YOUR" regular cue. The one you will use to play your shots other than breaking if you choose to break with a different cue.

It's clear and simple.

As you stated you want to have a cue that's easier to jump with use it as a break cue and switch to it for jump shots. Then if something is said say it's a regular cue. That cue would still be "YOUR" break cue regardless of its specifications.
 
jviss said:
1. Please cite the rule, or the paragraph or section of the rule book, that states that;
2. if I start using it as a playing cue at some point during the game, and it ceases to be a break cue at that point, then the designation as a break cue earlier is useless: your statement makes no sense.

Further evidence that your assertion does not make sense is this, from the APA rulebook:

"Regular Shooting Cues – These cues may be used to perform jump shots, massé shots and break shots in all APA League and Tournament play."

So, I have two regular playing cues. One is lighter, and has a hard tip, and I use that one for breaking and jump shots. It's not a break cue, or a jump cue.

It's one thing to interpret the rules; it's an entirely different matter to make up rules, or add detail to a rule where none exists.
Click to expand...

No you don't have 2 regular playing cues as per APA rules.
As you state you are NOT using the cue with the hard tip to regularly shoot with. So therefore it is not a regular shooting cue.
 
stumpie71 said:
Yes you are looking for a loophole.

What ever cue you use to play your match with us "YOUR" regular cue.
If that cue happens to be a xyz break cue then you may use it to perform any shots you wish including breaking as long as you don't break it down.

No you can not switch to "YOUR" break cue to jump, masse etc. Even if said cue has a regular leather tip no tip of whatever.

The rule doesn't say "a" regular cue! It states "YOUR" regular cue. The one you will use to play your shots other than breaking if you choose to break with a different cue.

It's clear and simple.

As you stated you want to have a cue that's easier to jump with use it as a break cue and switch to it for jump shots. Then if something is said say it's a regular cue. That cue would still be "YOUR" break cue regardless of its specifications.
Click to expand...

People keep saying that you're looking for a loophole when you follow the written rule. Here, I'll post this again. This is the RULE BOOK:

Breaking with your regular playing cue doesn't make it a "Breaking Cue" according to the rule book (page 38). Also, performing a jump shot with your regular cue doesn't make it a "Jump Cue". Below is a copy/paste of the rules directly out of the rule book:
"Regular Shooting Cues - These cues may be used to perform jump shots, massé shots and break shots in all APA League and Tournament play. You may not “break down” your Regular Shooting Cue to perform a jump shot.

NOTE 1: Using a regular shooting cue to break does not qualify it as a “break cue”."
 
stumpie71 said:
Yes you are looking for a loophole.

What ever cue you use to play your match with us "YOUR" regular cue.
If that cue happens to be a xyz break cue then you may use it to perform any shots you wish including breaking as long as you don't break it down.

No you can not switch to "YOUR" break cue to jump, masse etc. Even if said cue has a regular leather tip no tip of whatever.

The rule doesn't say "a" regular cue! It states "YOUR" regular cue. The one you will use to play your shots other than breaking if you choose to break with a different cue.

It's clear and simple.

As you stated you want to have a cue that's easier to jump with use it as a break cue and switch to it for jump shots. Then if something is said say it's a regular cue. That cue would still be "YOUR" break cue regardless of its specifications.
Click to expand...

Now you are just making up stuff. Where does it say "your break cue?" (Hint: it doesn't. [1])

According to the rules, you are allowed to switch cues. It doesn't require a reason. A regular playing cue can have any kind of tip on it that you want. Having two cues with differing tips doesn't make one a break cue because you broke with it.

[1] http://media.poolplayers.com/TMRB/Team-Manual-English.pdf
 
It will be interesting to see what corporate says. Regardless, I feel that the "spirit" of the rule is that you must jump with the cue you are using for normal shots during the match. I readily admit I could be wrong.

Also, played at a venue once that had a strict "no jumping" rule on their tables. Their rules superceded APA according to my LO.
 
UGC said:
This is my first session with APA, and I'm Team Captain. We're going to the playoffs, so I figured I would brush up on the rules so I know them better. Started reading the rule book from page 1 on, and came across this in the latest Team Manual, on page 39, it says, "You may change cues and/or cue shafts during a game provided the cues and/or shafts you are switching to do not violate any rules of use, and you remain within the time guidelines. "

So, I'm thinking I could get a light weight playing cue and just put a hard leather tip on it. Use it for jump shots/breaking only, and still be within the guide lines of the rules.- but everyone is telling me I can't do that.

My question is why can't you? It states in the rule book that you CAN.

What rule am I breaking if I change playing cues in the middle of a game?

Thanks for your feedback and thoughts on this.

EDIT: This is not Masters, just regular APA.
Click to expand...

Your post. You stated you have every intention of using a cue for breaking and jumping and lying about its purpose. Saying its a player because of its tip.
The rule doesn't specify what makes a break cue other than how you use the cue.
It's very clear. You seem to be hung up on what a break cue is, that if you change the tip of becomes something else. It does not.

If you change playing cues in the middle of a match no dues are broken. However to switch between the cue you use as your break cue regardless of its tip of anything else for the purpose of jumping and lying about it is looking for a loophole and breaking the rule.
 
I didn't say the tip of anything makes it a break cue other than its use, and I didn't say the rule states "your" break cue. I did point out that no you can not switch to a break cue for the sole purpose of jumping.

The original poster said he wants to have a cue with a hard leather top for breaking and jumping and switch as needed. As the rule clearly states you can play with anything and yes switch if needed. If a person's intent is to use their break cue to jump and then say it's their regular cue is against the rules. I

And very much looking for a loophole
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top