APA Skill Levels

[Bigkahuna]

Handicaps

Yes, it is a system that rates you at your highest level of play. IMO most people are asking these things so that they can manipulate the system to their advantage. This is cheating. Just play your best game to the best of your ability and have fun. It is supposed to be friendly competition....

 

[doitforthegame]

So, if part of the system is based on a players average innings, what is the inning expectations for the ratings (9 ball)? I'm a 7 in both 8 and 9, so how many innings am I expected to play in 9 ball?

Bob

 

[Cory in DC]

I was a SL6 one week and played a 5. I had to go to 37 points to his ranking in 9ball. I won the lag and put a three pack on em and played a safe. He misses and I got BIH and ran out my remaining points to win the set.

Since I had 3 break and runs and ended the match on 2 innings I was bumped up to a 8!!! Reason being it was the innings that made my rating go up. The fewer innings you have in a match bumps up your rating. Not including safety play (I think) so if you don't want your rating to go up MISS A LOT!!!

After becoming a 9 and beating everybody every week I decide the APA wasn't for me anymore... Not that its a bad organization but I got nothing out of it competition wise...

What you describe is the APA system working as it is designed. An APA 6 should essentially never be able to run a 3-pack in 9-ball. It worked because you apparently didn't hold back and because your safeties were marked.

 

[walrus_3d]

Think it's worse than that. I think the Lowest Attainable Rule only lets you drop one skill level from your highest. So if you ever played as a 9, you can never go lower than 8. Makes it a little tough if you layoff for a while or go through a dry spell.

You can submit an official waiver to lower your skill level beyond the "national lowest", the limit is what your local league can't drop you beyond.

 

[walrus_3d]

I believe the LO's have less ability to do adjusments now, like lorider said. This just happened at the start of the current session, 4-5 weeks ago. In conjunction with all the stats having to be viewed from the national site. Individual LO's can no longer do any of the stas on their own website. And it's taking longer to appear than it used to, which lends credence to the stats having to be done at National.

I may be wrong, I often am. Just ask my wife.

It's not that the national office is taking the web sites away from the local leagues, it's that the national office is ensuring that all the local leagues have the same quality of web site. Our local page was over and above everybody else's, and we're more or less the model of what the new nationally supported pages are going to be like. The league operators have never been individually capable of lowering someone's skill level beyond what the computer says they should be, but they do still have the ability to raise someone's skill level for cause.

 

[walrus_3d]

to my knowledge they dont look at your losses. they just look at how many innings you played in your wins. they dont take your opponents s/l into account in your wins.

the 1st time i was raised to a 5 was because i beat a 2 quite handily. it was one of those nights i played above my usual level of play. i won 3 games in 4 innings. they raised me to a 5 that week. i never won a game the rest of the session.

but like i said in my earlier post our lo does a better job of adjusting handicaps now.

They have to look at your losses. If you lost 20 games in a row they wouldn't have any data to use.

Anyway you're never raised for one match, you're raised for the average of your best ten matches out of the last 20. It's a little more straightforward in 9 ball than 8 ball, because in 9 ball they can look at how many points you got in how many innings, minus defensive shots, and that tells you how far under or over your skill level you're rated. I've heard the magic number is 20 for 9 ball, that you should be able to reach your goal in 19-21 innings. If you do it faster, you're playing above your skill level, and slower you're playing below.

In 8 ball, I keep a rule of thumb that SL4s should average 4 innings per rack, 5s should average 3, 6s should average 2, and 7s should average 1 or fewer. Obviously defensive shots will raise those counts, but it should come out in the wash. As far as average innings for 2s and 3s, god help you, I don't know how they do that math.

 

[walrus_3d]

So, if part of the system is based on a players average innings, what is the inning expectations for the ratings (9 ball)? I'm a 7 in both 8 and 9, so how many innings am I expected to play in 9 ball?

Bob

you're supposed to average 20 innings per match, regardless of your skill level. Basically you should be able to run 55 balls in 75 shots.

 

[OneIron]

So, if part of the system is based on a players average innings, what is the inning expectations for the ratings (9 ball)? I'm a 7 in both 8 and 9, so how many innings am I expected to play in 9 ball?

Bob

I never saw the formula for 9 ball so I can't comment on that. Just from observation though, it seemed like the handicap roughly matched the average balls made per rack. I actually kept up with it one session and it was pretty close. May just be coincidence though.

 

[RRfireblade]

They have to look at your losses. If you lost 20 games in a row they wouldn't have any data to use.

Of course that would mean that 20 racks were broke and ran in row over the course of a few weeks and mulitple opponents including the loss of every lag so I'm going to go out on a limb and say thats never happened....ever.



What I believe he meant was that they look at the data from every scored game , regardless of win/loss. There's still applicable data from each game even if you never made it to the table.

 

[lorider]

They have to look at your losses. If you lost 20 games in a row they wouldn't have any data to use.

Anyway you're never raised for one match, you're raised for the average of your best ten matches out of the last 20. It's a little more straightforward in 9 ball than 8 ball, because in 9 ball they can look at how many points you got in how many innings, minus defensive shots, and that tells you how far under or over your skill level you're rated. I've heard the magic number is 20 for 9 ball, that you should be able to reach your goal in 19-21 innings. If you do it faster, you're playing above your skill level, and slower you're playing below.

In 8 ball, I keep a rule of thumb that SL4s should average 4 innings per rack, 5s should average 3, 6s should average 2, and 7s should average 1 or fewer. Obviously defensive shots will raise those counts, but it should come out in the wash. As far as average innings for 2s and 3s, god help you, I don't know how they do that math.

all i know about my situation is that after i lost 10 in a row i asked him to.look at my record. the next week it was lowered. this was in the playoffs. in the 3rd week of the next session i was raised to a 5 again after i had beat a 2 quite badly in my 2nd weeks match. the score was 25-6. i dont remember how many innings. i only played 5 matches between being lowered and being raised again.

 

[jayman]

I have seen the "formula" for the APA's equalizer handicap system, but it really wasn't a formula at all. Just a general explanation of the process. Does anyone have any idea what it takes to go up in skill level in the APA? What about going down?

I know a lot of people hate the APA and leagues in general, but I hope somebody out there likes it enough to have some insight. Thanks in advance.

Where did you see the "formula"?

 

[nsainfreek]

Statistics...over a run of matches you'll still make balls despite safety matches. And a safety shot is marked as "defensive" shot.

How does the system account for 2 way shots?

How does the system account 2 players kicking back and forth for 10 minutes?

 

[nsainfreek]

I was addressing your 2nd question. I figure if you're kicking back and forth it's because you're playing safety shots. I'm not sure why a 2 way shot has to be accounted for, if you make a ball you keep shooting. If you make both balls you get two points.

I was talking about a 2 way shot, not a safety.

 

[PocketPoint12]

I was addressing your 2nd question. I figure if you're kicking back and forth it's because you're playing safety shots. I'm not sure why a 2 way shot has to be accounted for, if you make a ball you keep shooting. If you make both balls you get two points.

No no, a "two way shot." Not making 2 balls at once.

 

[RRfireblade]

Two way shot would be a shot. Unless it was obvious to be safety with nothing more than factored luck as a backup.

 

[Total_Chaos13]

You can submit an official waiver to lower your skill level beyond the "national lowest", the limit is what your local league can't drop you beyond.

Can anyone explain the lowest attainable portion? Does that mean if I go to a 6 I can never go back to a 4 or 3? Is it just for nationals?

 

[OneIron]

Can anyone explain the lowest attainable portion? Does that mean if I go to a 6 I can never go back to a 4 or 3? Is it just for nationals?

From the APA manual:

27. LOWEST ATTAINABLE RULE
Once you have 10 League matches on record or you have been assigned a skill level (therefore, an established skill level), you will not be allowed to drop more than one skill level, except for the rare instances of physical disability or other extreme circumstances which might permanently change your true ability. This is known as the lowest attainable rule.

 

[Total_Chaos13]

From the APA manual:

27. LOWEST ATTAINABLE RULE
Once you have 10 League matches on record or you have been assigned a skill level (therefore, an established skill level), you will not be allowed to drop more than one skill level, except for the rare instances of physical disability or other extreme circumstances which might permanently change your true ability. This is known as the lowest attainable rule.

Hows that work. After my first 10 matches if they rate me as a 4 i can never go down to a 2 correct. My question is that if my skill level continues to raise to say a 6 does that rule now apply to the skill level 6 and i can never go below a 5?

I have also heard you get locked in your skill level in Vegas. If you play as a 7 in Vegas you can never go down again ? Any truth to that?

Just wondering if thats the case or not.

 

[OneIron]

Hows that work. After my first 10 matches if they rate me as a 4 i can never go down to a 2 correct. My question is that if my skill level continues to raise to say a 6 does that rule now apply to the skill level 6 and i can never go below a 5?

I have also heard you get locked in your skill level in Vegas. If you play as a 7 in Vegas you can never go down again ? Any truth to that?

Just wondering if thats the case or not.

Both of your questions are correct. However, I've seen several instances where players have gone down after playing in Vegas. Never underestimate the power of an LO.

 

[justadub]

This is a kind of interesting point, at least to me.

I just started APA 9-ball a few weeks ago. My 8-ball Skill Level is 5, so I automatically started 9-ball as a 5. No problem, I get it.

Thing is, I suck at 9-ball. I've played 4 weeks now and haven't scored more than 15 points. Granted, I've been playing pretty tough players, but still. Yes, they lowered me to a 4 a week ago, and that's appropriate. (In truth, it annoys me. I'm not one who wants to have a lower handicap. I'm truly frustrated that I'm not playing to the ability of my handicap. That's the real problem for me.)

So since I had to start as an SL5, due to the fact that I had an established 8-ball handicap, I can never go lower than an SL4 in 9-ball no matter how badly I play that game?

Interesting.

(I don't plan on being that bad in either league for long. It's the point of the thing that intrigues me.)