Unless it's the last match of the night, when we've had stuff like this happen we'll play the matches out of order. That seems to work out pretty good, so long as everyone is agreeable to it
APA stop watch timer rule?
- Thread starter stutz
- Start date
So there are a lot of misconceptions about the rules and all I can say is that it depends on what your LO is going to enforce or not. We tend to enforce the rules as they are written here in King Co. WA.
As it pertains to time outs the rule book states very clearly under General rules #11 D. ."Coaching periods should not exceed one minute.
Repeated complaints against offenders could lead to penalties."
As it pertains to shot clocks, there is a very clear table on page 7 under Etiquette that the average shot should take 20 seconds and the MAXIMUM (and it states that very clearly) time is 45 seconds.
You would want to time your opponent without making it a sharking action and if they are indeed abusing the time limits, let the captain know as politely as possible and if that does not rectify the situation you need to contact the LO.
As it pertains to time outs the rule book states very clearly under General rules #11 D. ."Coaching periods should not exceed one minute.
Repeated complaints against offenders could lead to penalties."
As it pertains to shot clocks, there is a very clear table on page 7 under Etiquette that the average shot should take 20 seconds and the MAXIMUM (and it states that very clearly) time is 45 seconds.
You would want to time your opponent without making it a sharking action and if they are indeed abusing the time limits, let the captain know as politely as possible and if that does not rectify the situation you need to contact the LO.
So then at the 46 second mark what happens?
You'll also notice that the book also states (also very clearly) that these are guidelines.
The tern "guidelines" indicates that there is some room for flexibility or more accurately that this is what is suggested, not required.
Is your LO pretty rigid where this is concerned?
as well, "etiquette" is very subjective. I don't think anyone wants to be rude or thought of as a jerk but who's the bigger jerk, the guy who looks over an important shot for more than 45 seconds, or the guy that tries to call a foul because of it
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I believe that I addressed that by stating that you want to inform the other teams captains and if that does not work, inform the LO. None of these rules matter if the LO is not willing to enforce them though. In our area if a team gets a couple of complaints about taking too much time we will have someone watch them during the matches. This is usually the LO but sometimes it can be the Division reps that do it. If the team in question is taking too long, they are warned and coached to speed up the process. This is all so that the matches do not end at midnight and one in the morning because as someone stated earlier, many of us have to get up at 5 or before the next morning.
Are all the etiquette guidelines followed this closely? I would think that makes for a much cleaner league, but pretty stiff. Do you ever have a situation where the games might run long, like if they begin to play alot of defensive shots? What do you guys do then?
As long as the players are not abusing the system, or appearing to abuse it, then they are simply talked to and coached on the rules. Matches that run long due to safeties are what they are. That is just part of the game. When players are taking a minute for each shot, then they get talked to about it.
And don't get me wrong, we have plenty of issues with certain teams and players just as everyone does.
And don't get me wrong, we have plenty of issues with certain teams and players just as everyone does.
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I play in a BCA league. Some of the players are so slow that I would be happy if they could get shots off in 1 1/2 minutes much less 45 seconds. Its always the same players too. We have 1 guy that will just stand at the foot of the table and stare at it for a couple minutes, and thats not just after the break only, sometimes between shots. I cant believe nobody on his team says anything. Of course even after that same team has been told numerous times they still dont understand that you cant shoot straight thru the object ball when it is frozen to Q ball.
The rules regarding frozen balls is not as clear as you put it. If the cue ball and object ball are frozen then the rule allows one to shoot towards or partly into that ball.
6.7 Double Hit / Frozen Balls
If the cue stick contacts the cue ball more than once on a shot, the shot is a foul. If the cue ball
is close to but not touching an object ball and the cue tip is still on the cue ball when the cue
ball contacts that object ball, the shot is a foul. If the cue ball is very close to an object ball,
and the shooter barely grazes that object ball on the shot, the shot is assumed not to violate the
Version 21/12/2007 – The Rules of Play Page 1 of 3 Version 21.12.2007
first paragraph of this rule, even though the tip is arguably still on the cue ball when ball-ball
contact is made.
However, if the cue ball is touching an object ball at the start of the shot, it is legal to shoot
towards or partly into that ball (provided it is a legal target within the rules of the game) and if
the object ball is moved by such a shot, it is considered to have been contacted by the cue ball.
(Even though it may be legal to shoot towards such a touching or “frozen” ball, care must be
taken not to violate the rules in the first paragraph if there are additional balls close by.)
The cue ball is assumed not to be touching any ball unless it is declared touching by the
referee or opponent. It is the shooter’s responsibility to get the declaration before the shot.
Playing away from a frozen ball does not constitute having hit that ball unless specified in the
rules of the game.
6.7 Double Hit / Frozen Balls
If the cue stick contacts the cue ball more than once on a shot, the shot is a foul. If the cue ball
is close to but not touching an object ball and the cue tip is still on the cue ball when the cue
ball contacts that object ball, the shot is a foul. If the cue ball is very close to an object ball,
and the shooter barely grazes that object ball on the shot, the shot is assumed not to violate the
Version 21/12/2007 – The Rules of Play Page 1 of 3 Version 21.12.2007
first paragraph of this rule, even though the tip is arguably still on the cue ball when ball-ball
contact is made.
However, if the cue ball is touching an object ball at the start of the shot, it is legal to shoot
towards or partly into that ball (provided it is a legal target within the rules of the game) and if
the object ball is moved by such a shot, it is considered to have been contacted by the cue ball.
(Even though it may be legal to shoot towards such a touching or “frozen” ball, care must be
taken not to violate the rules in the first paragraph if there are additional balls close by.)
The cue ball is assumed not to be touching any ball unless it is declared touching by the
referee or opponent. It is the shooter’s responsibility to get the declaration before the shot.
Playing away from a frozen ball does not constitute having hit that ball unless specified in the
rules of the game.
They should be, I certainly am, but some teams are kind of douchey about it.
"sorry that's a forfeit!"
I can understand not wanting to get home late but 20 minutes won't kill anyone.
One time I was matched up against a player who was shooting so slow that I stepped outside, walked around the building (strip mall) and back inside before he had completed the shot. When I brought up his slow shooting the player said he "was working on his game." He was a 6 at the time. I decided to help and started counting his warm up strokes announcing the final number right after he shot. The smallest number I announced was thirty-two. The largest was forty-nine.
After that I spent some time researching the rules. While there are indeed 'guidelines' there is no penalty that can be enforced during league play.
After that I spent some time researching the rules. While there are indeed 'guidelines' there is no penalty that can be enforced during league play.
I guess I've become way to used to our league and players here. We've know each other for years and although we're on different teams we're all a pretty close knit group, considering we're competing teams. Sure we've had our differences but it never takes too long before we're all on the same page having a Budweiser moment together. Truth is these people, we're all friends and when we get together on league night at which room we're playing at that night we'll all laugh and joke buy each other drinks and it's not at all unusual to find a member from the other team coaching the other teams players or if someone notices something bad about to happen you might pull the other captain over and let him or her know. These folks know they can approach me anytime if they need re-tip or re-wrap or general repairs without charge. In team tournaments we support each other as well. It's also not uncommon that if a team is in a forfeit situation that we might exceed the 23 rule on occasion and it's ok, no one really cares, we just want to play. It's competitive, that is - we all want to win, but it's rarely ever petty. We're not so naive to expact that sort of behavior in cities or Las Vegas, we know it's a way different venue, but at home on league night, it's kinda like being on vacation with a group of friends and it's been that way for the last several years. We really try to accomdate each other and I really can't imagine anyone getting upset about a shot clock or lag violation. I guess it's a little more rare than I thought.
That's actually kind of interesting. I didn't know that was an option.
I thought that whatever head office collects the scoresheets and enters the scores and stats...
would notice 23 violations and put a stop to them. Do you think they don't even notice?
Or they know it but they don't care either?
We've had to forfeit about a million times due to not being able to make the 23 limit.
There have even been times when a 2 was available, but we still couldn't play
because we needed a 1 to make numbers.
Oh I'm sure they notice, but once the sheets are signed it means that everyone is in agreement so the league office just processes the scores.
I think that what a lot of teams and players don't realize is that once two teams get together to play a match you can pretty much make up your own set of rules - so long as both teams / captains agree to it. If you're playing 9 ball one night you might approach the other captain and say, "what would think if we allowed anyone S/L 5
or over to push out after the break?" or "What would you think that every time the S/L's 1 or 2 take their turn at the table they start with ball in hand?"
While we're all friendly in our division and these are things we can agree to and no one fights about it, we know you can't expect that from everyone beyond a normal league night. Playoffs, Cities, Las Vegas, we'd never expect or even approach the other team with any variation of the rules, but if on league night, if you can agree on something, and the signatures are in the proper place at the end of the night it means that everyone has agreed that what took place in the league match and all was copacetic.
I think it's like any thing else, In the APA the referee doesn't watch a shot unless you ask them to, as far as I'm concerned even if I was watching unless some asked me to watch I didn't see it, and as well with the score sheets if there is no complaint why would the league office need to check your work? You guys are adults, if you see a foul, speak up, if not I can't imagine that the league office cares. No complaints = no headaches
Like I stated originally, my player is over thinking shots. He's not intentionally trying to slow play, I'd never let him play if that was the case. I don't like getting home late on a work night.
I will try to work with him this summer, we take the summer league off
I will try to work with him this summer, we take the summer league off