APA-What is the deal with them?

Laura, Is this the same Laura I remember from a year ago posting about how terrible it is to sandbag and now I hear you talking like you want to hold down your SL. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that the definition of sandbagging? Shouldn't you be playing every game the best you can? LOL

When a 9 gets stuck playing a 3 who's fault is that? Are you putting the 9 up blind? Then you are asking for the other team to play their lowest SL. Why aren't you holding him back until they put up their high SL? Our 2's are our 7 killers! But the 9 should use a matchup like that as a good learning drill. He will really have to play well to beat a 3. No 9's around here. Just a couple 8's. Seems to me that a 9 in APA is a waste. I would rather have 3 pretty good 3's rather than one 9. And so would the APA League.

I believe the APA uses the last 20 matches played to achieve a SL. So if you start out in the APA and happen to play above your head the first few weeks it will take some time before before your SL gets back down to where it belongs. Like 20 long weeks.

When my teammates start complaining about how their opponent shouldn't be a 3. Saying he don't play like no 3. I say, you're right, he should be a 2. And you are playing like a 3 not a 4. You want some cheese with that whine? And sometimes when the opposing team has a 3 playing exceptionally well I will tell their captain the way she is playing she shouldn't be a 3. And just when he is expecting me to say she should be a 4 I say she should be a 2. Then he tries to convince me she should be a 4 before he realizes what happened.

2,3,4,5 what difference does it matter? They are all ball bangers. Sometimes they play well, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they are sober, sometimes they are drunk. Sometimes they care, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they are high, sometimes they are not. It all evens out. But they always seem to enjoy themselves and have fun. And that is all it is about.

If your scorekeeper has no idea what a defensive shot is then they can't mark it on the scoresheet and you are giving the other player a big advantage.

Jake
 
jjinfla said:
Laura, Is this the same Laura I remember from a year ago posting about how terrible it is to sandbag and now I hear you talking like you want to hold down your SL. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that the definition of sandbagging? Shouldn't you be playing every game the best you can? LOL

I believe the APA uses the last 20 matches played to achieve a SL. So if you start out in the APA and happen to play above your head the first few weeks it will take some time before before your SL gets back down to where it belongs. Like 20 long weeks.

Jake

I guess I was confused at how his winning percent should be so high and not be bumped up. I also wondered what the % is before someone goes up. If I were near that %, the only way the captain could keep me where I am is not to play me until the playoffs. I guess I do not understand how a person can sandbag. I could not, even if I wanted to. When I get on that table, I cannot NOT play my best because I have that competitive streak. While I guess I would like to get just a wee better in shooting before I moved up, if I did, I would just do my best and keep on trying to win.

Also this is 8 ball so we don't have nines. As far as safetys go, yes there are some scorekeepers that do not mark them by choice or because they do not know defense all that well, but often, even the ones who do, miss some because they are not paying close enough attention.

By not marking safes, for instance in my last match, that made a 7 inning game which if safes were accurately marked would probably been a 5 inning game, and I do think innings factors into the formula somehow.

Laura
 
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We don't have APA 9 ball here. Not too sure I like the idea that a lower ranked 9 ball player can beat a higher player just by pocketing a certain number of balls. At least in 8 ball a lower ranked player might not have to win as many games as I do but they do have to WIN their games, not just sink a percentage of their balls.
 
APA 9 ball is more like straight pool played in rotation. If that makes any sense. But if two people are playing straight pool to 50 and one guy receives 10 points on the wire that would basically be how APA 9-ball is run. Making the 9-ball receives two points and the next break and the other balls receive 1 point.

It is actually an interesting concept and makes the matches more interesting because any player has a chance to win. And better still is the fact that a player earns points for his team in relation to the amount of balls he makes. Twenty points are divided per match and the team who reaches 51 first wins the match. So a person can lose a match but still score 8 points for the team which might be enough for the team to win overall. Usually the final match decides which team wins for the night. That way weak players can always feel they contribute to the team effort.

Whereas, in 8-ball a weak player who loses contributes nothing to the team. And that can get old pretty fast.

Jake
 
jjinfla: Our 9 does not go up blind. Allot of the teams around here don't have allot of high players. We have played teams that the highest player is a sl5. Sometimes we throw our 9 up when they only have a choice between a 3 and a 4...there are times it just ends up that way and there is nothing we can do. The point of an sl9 is to be able to beat any other players, and our 9 usually does. Last week the other team had two people left to play....a 1 or a 2, and we had only our 9 left to play...so, they threw the one on him. He won of course!

Bluewolf: Sandbagging is easy if you are a good player. It's all about keeping your innings up, playing "accidental" safes. You basically have to throw your game for a few innings and make it look like an accident when you hook the guy. I don't think lower players can purposely sandbag unless they are playing a really low ranked player.
 
jjinfla said:
I believe the APA uses the last 20 matches played to achieve a SL. So if you start out in the APA and happen to play above your head the first few weeks it will take some time before before your SL gets back down to where it belongs. Like 20 long weeks.


If your scorekeeper has no idea what a defensive shot is then they can't mark it on the scoresheet and you are giving the other player a big advantage.

Jake

Jake...The APA software program takes the data input and reworks skill level assignments based on the BEST 10 scores, from your 20 most recents matches. The only way a lower ranked player could win 14 out of 15 matches and not go up, would be due to deliberately padding innings to their score. That why both teams have a separate scoresheet. I agree that if you don't know what is or isn't a defensive shot, you're giving a big advantage to the competition.

Scott Lee ~ former APA league operator
 
Scott Lee said:
Jake...The APA software program takes the data input and reworks skill level assignments based on the BEST 10 scores, from your 20 most recents matches. The only way a lower ranked player could win 14 out of 15 matches and not go up, would be due to deliberately padding innings to their score. That why both teams have a separate scoresheet. I agree that if you don't know what is or isn't a defensive shot, you're giving a big advantage to the competition.

Scott Lee ~ former APA league operator


Very true about the defensive shots. I always insist that my scorekeepers mark all defensive shots. HOWEVER, if I am not watching, or another knowledgable person - defensive shots are rarely marked down. I have seen this on every team in our division. I have gone to my scorekeeper during my own match to see if he/she has marked a couple obvious safes - or even verbally called safes. Most times they haven't and I tell them about it. They say "Oh, was that a safe?". DUH. Until some people take the league matches a little more seriously it will remain the same. AND there will always be the complaints about the skill levels.

Phyllis Gumphrey
 
9balldiva said:
Bluewolf: Sandbagging is easy if you are a good player. It's all about keeping your innings up, playing "accidental" safes. You basically have to throw your game for a few innings and make it look like an accident when you hook the guy. I don't think lower players can purposely sandbag unless they are playing a really low ranked player.

I do not sandbag but play defense and am pretty good at it.Of course , many people do not count safes much where I play so that does tend to keep one at a certain level for awhile. Actually it is the strongest part of my game. Getting better on shooting and position but think those will take lots of practice to catch up with my defense. Reason for this? My husband started my defense training when I first was an sl2 playing in APA, when all I could get in were the short, easy ones.

I think I just need experience since i have not played for very long to get good at position, shot making etc.

Good lessons have really helped, but have come to believe as so many have said, that there is no substitute for 'time on the table'.

Laura
 
Bluewolf said:
I do not sandbag but play defense and am pretty good at it.Of course , many people do not count safes much where I play so that does tend to keep one at a certain level for awhile. Actually it is the strongest part of my game. Getting better on shooting and position but think those will take lots of practice to catch up with my defense. Reason for this? My husband started my defense training when I first was an sl2 playing in APA, when all I could get in were the short, easy ones.

I think I just need experience since i have not played for very long to get good at position, shot making etc.

Good lessons have really helped, but have come to believe as so many have said, that there is no substitute for 'time on the table'.

Laura

If you are playing defense well, then position play should be no problem. Think through your shots more before you get down to shoot. Defensive shots are all about position. Maybe you feel less stress when playing safe.
 
BazookaJoe said:
If you are playing defense well, then position play should be no problem. Think through your shots more before you get down to shoot. Defensive shots are all about position. Maybe you feel less stress when playing safe.

Someone on ccb once said something similar. Why can i put the cb exactly where I want it, often within two inches or so in defense and see the angles and 2 rail shots to accomplish this, yet have not acquired the position skills in offense.

Other than good lessons, I used to do this drill on a regular basis, part I got from scott, part from randy g and just took it forward a notch.

Hit cb 2 rails,lenghts of table (lag)
Hit cb 3 rails (med speed)
Hit cb 1 rail (soft hit
Hit cb 4 rails ( hard hit)

hit cb 1/2 a rail, 1/4 a rail, 2 inches.

I did that drill every day for months. Now that I mostly practice the shorter ones, 1/4 rail and the two inch one. I think this kind of ball speed control is a big reason I am good at safe. Now I am learning to see the angles for position. I wonder if the reason my position play has lagged behind is a mental thing?

Laura
 
The APA has a good handicap system BUT the two biggest problems are people not marking defensive shots and the local League Operators ability to manually adjust peoples handicaps. What the solution? I don't know.


Brian
 
APA7 said:
The APA has a good handicap system BUT the two biggest problems are people not marking defensive shots and the local League Operators ability to manually adjust peoples handicaps. What the solution? I don't know.


Brian

The LO is okay, but some of the league guys that run the league that night let slop, sandbagging, not marking safes to go on. But I do not think that they are paid.

Also, on our team of eight, only myself and my sl7 hubbie know a safe when we see one, at least with all but the very obvious ones. I even know safe better than our sl6. it is sad how many players, even rather high sl players do not understand how to play safe beyond a few easy ones and they sure do not know how to mark it on the sheet.

And forget about overall strategy and reading the table. At least in our league, we have fives who will run five balls but have not read the table well enough to know that they cannot run the rack. Then they have left me all kind of places to hide, they have no where to hide, and that is why I sometimes beat them even when they are much better shooters.

They also get frustrated and start crumpling playing worse. Not all but the majority here do. They just do not understand how they could shoot in five, I still have five on the table and how I beat them. Then they think they did something wrong and beat themselves up.

Defense is a weak shooters best tool, imo.

Laura
 
APA7 said:
The APA has a good handicap system BUT the two biggest problems are people not marking defensive shots and the local League Operators ability to manually adjust peoples handicaps. What the solution? I don't know.


Brian


As hard as they try to make this fair, it can never be. I guess we just go out, play, have fun and hope for the best. There is no perfect world.
 
Bluewolf said:
The LO is okay, but some of the league guys that run the league that night let slop, sandbagging, not marking safes to go on. But I do not think that they are paid.

Also, on our team of eight, only myself and my sl7 hubbie know a safe when we see one, at least with all but the very obvious ones. I even know safe better than our sl6. it is sad how many players, even rather high sl players do not understand how to play safe beyond a few easy ones and they sure do not know how to mark it on the sheet.

And forget about overall strategy and reading the table. At least in our league, we have fives who will run five balls but have not read the table well enough to know that they cannot run the rack. Then they have left me all kind of places to hide, they have no where to hide, and that is why I sometimes beat them even when they are much better shooters.

They also get frustrated and start crumpling playing worse. Not all but the majority here do. They just do not understand how they could shoot in five, I still have five on the table and how I beat them. Then they think they did something wrong and beat themselves up.

Defense is a weak shooters best tool, imo.

Laura

If that is how your 5 and 6 shoot, it sounds like you might be in a weak area. In some areas, those 5 that you described would be somewhere around a 3 or 4.


Brian
 
APA7 said:
If that is how your 5 and 6 shoot, it sounds like you might be in a weak area. In some areas, those 5 that you described would be somewhere around a 3 or 4.


Brian

Could be. When I was in poolschool, I met someone from a different area who was an sl4 and worse than me when i was an sl2. So I do know that there are some regional differences. This does make it weird when the teams get to vegas, does it not?

Laura
 
know the feeling

Bluewolf said:
Could be. When I was in poolschool, I met someone from a different area who was an sl4 and worse than me when i was an sl2. So I do know that there are some regional differences. This does make it weird when the teams get to vegas, does it not?

Laura

so so true
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