Applying precision English.....

F

fathomblue

Rusty Shackleford
Silver Member
I stumbled across this on YouTube. Not sure if the guy posts on here or not.

I'm at work, so I can't verify how well it works right now, but it seems so simple that I'm thinking, "Why didn't I think of this?"

Does everyone know about this except me? I know this has to be speed dependent, but isn't everything in this game?

Is this system correct? What other applications could you use this for besides simple 1-rail kicks?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-4c6bhqzpw&feature=g-vrec
 
There are WAY more variables involved than tips of English to determine precisely where your kick will end up...but what this does tell you is a pretty cool tool to practice that can get you out of a jam. Speed of the stroke as well as conditions make a pretty big difference in slow speed kicking like this, which is why folks tend to play these a little faster as a rule to overcome cloths/rail conditions.

I used to have a kick shot I loved and would use a lot, almost two tips of English and one tip of draw on a firmly hit ball to shorten the angle on a kick...aimed near a corner pocket, the ball comes back tracking along the rail to the corner pocket on your end. I would do this because of consistency, and it saved my bacon numerous times. These types of kicks are actually worth your time to develop, but you really have to feel them out for yourself, it's not quite so universally easy as he makes it out. Then when the pressure's on, you have something that (to you) is pretty consistent no matter what. :cool:
 
This is good video for demonstrating what does what but is not particularly useful in practical play. For example most players in most situations would probably elect to use angle rather than English to kick a ball. So it is good for the understanding of how it basically works it is not a “better” way of doing kicks, it is simply a good explanation of the general effects.
 
PGHteacher said:
This is good video for demonstrating what does what but is not particularly useful in practical play. For example most players in most situations would probably elect to use angle rather than English to kick a ball. So it is good for the understanding of how it basically works it is not a “better” way of doing kicks, it is simply a good explanation of the general effects.
Click to expand...

That actually just hit me a few minutes ago. Angle IS generally used. However, I do seem to see a fair amount of shots where I have another ball close to the cueball. I'm cut off and either I can't get any angle at all or it's only very slight. In that instance, instead of trying to be "too fine" and and eat up any angle I can get......I could shoot straight ahead and play the English. I know I've gotten too greedy in the past and tried to get slip past another ball to use the angle and actually feathered it....fouling....and giving my opponent BIH.

I'm going to experiment with this by shooting my cueball to one diamond adjacent with different tip amounts (1 tip, 2 tip, etc.) and see how it's affected.
 
PGHteacher said:
This is good video for demonstrating what does what but is not particularly useful in practical play. For example most players in most situations would probably elect to use angle rather than English to kick a ball.

...

...it is not a “better” way of doing kicks, it is simply a good explanation of the general effects.
Click to expand...
I haven't seen the linked video, but I assume it's some version of "this much tip offset changes the rebound direction by this many diamonds". If so, I think it is a better way of kicking when sidespin is needed.

I often use sidespin to modify kick angles, and having some idea how much sidespin produces how much of an angle change is very handy. The exact offset/change ratio depends on conditions, so any rule of thumb must be calibrated to the table, but that's quick and easy. It's very useful to have something in addition to feel working for you.

pj
chgo
 
Neil said:
Not so. I have posted this method on here in the past, and got slammed for it. I use it quite frequently. If the natural path for the one rail kick is blocked, I can easily adjust using this method and still get the hit.

It is also easily extrapolated to position play off a ball when going to a rail with the cb. If you need a precise hit to break out some balls, this is the way to go. You find the tangent line, and adjust from there. It is a very useful tool to have in your bag.
Click to expand...

Neil, could you explain the bolded portion above a bit more, please?

I'm trying to absorb as much as I can.
 
Neil said:
Sure. Just for example- you are shooting a ball into the corner. Look at the tangent line off the ob. See where it hits the rail. It will come off the rail very close to the angle it went into it if you used a stop shot on making the ob. Now, look where that line tracks to. You have a couple balls to break out, and they are withing a couple of diamonds of that track line, you can accurately hit them using this method.

There are also methods of tracking using follow and draw off the rail which can also be adjusted fairly accurately with english applied.
Click to expand...

Great post, great observation and advice! It always amazes me how many players don't take the time to do some simple pre-shot visualization of what the CB will do after contact and purposely adjust to change the track to something they want...but then again it took me years to learn that, too, so I shouldn't really be that surprised.

To the OP, think of "aiming" your CB coming off any OB during your PSR. You then can adjust the track of the CB using speed, draw, English to get it to do what you want it to...

Someone told me once, running into balls MUST be on purpose...if you hit something by accident, it's 90% sure to bite you in the a$$.
 
West Point 1987 said:
Great post, great observation and advice! It always amazes me how many players don't take the time to do some simple pre-shot visualization of what the CB will do after contact and purposely adjust to change the track to something they want...but then again it took me years to learn that, too, so I shouldn't really be that surprised.

To the OP, think of "aiming" your CB coming off any OB during your PSR. You then can adjust the track of the CB using speed, draw, English to get it to do what you want it to...
Someone told me once, running into balls MUST be on purpose...if you hit something by accident, it's 90% sure to bite you in the a$$.
Click to expand...



Max Eberle just recently shared this concept in his series of mini-lessons on line....to paraphrase-think of the ob as the 'first rail' the cb hits in the process of predicting cb shape paths.

Neil-good stuff.

take care
 
Don Rose showed me this method many years ago...It was actually a 3-cushion system...but of course it also works for pool as well....

For kick shots it is a very effective method when the natural angle path is blocked.

For shape off an OB...I much prefer Buddy Halls clock method.


Keep in mind that both methods are merely tools to help you get the feel of the shape....I would not call either exact since strokes and speed vary..and will get differing results.

But they will get you close...and make you more consistent....when you determine your consistency using the methods...that is when it will start to become precise or exact.
 
Neil said:
You find the tangent line, and adjust from there. It is a very useful tool to have in your bag.
Click to expand...

I use this in one way or another for calculating a high percentage of shots.

Its always on my mind. Where EXACTYLY do I place the tip. Certainly a lot of shots are feel or some other system. But knowing absolutely with no doubt what you're putting on the ball can't be argued.

You just need to do the work.
 
PGHteacher said:
This is good video for demonstrating what does what but is not particularly useful in practical play. For example most players in most situations would probably elect to use angle rather than English to kick a ball. So it is good for the understanding of how it basically works it is not a “better” way of doing kicks, it is simply a good explanation of the general effects.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone said it should be used INSTEAD OF an angled shot. But the general concepts illustrated here can be applied to angled shots also.*

*Any shot on a billiard table should take into account a variety of factors unique to a particular type of shot and a particular table. Also, chalk your cue before each shot.
 
Just as an aside... Last night I decided to play by letting my cueball hit the rail as little as possible. For the first time ever I broke and ran 5 racks of 9ball. I used mostly stop shots or one tip of english and when I did use the rail I just used running english to get speed off the rail and provide me with draw without actually using bottom english.

I agree with the system in the video to an extent but its not a be all and end all of systems. There are many variations that happen to a shot and unless you have the exact perfect speed every time you wont hit the same spot ever. Quality rails play a big part in this and even on a given pool table each rail can react differently.

Edit: I did give myself ball in hand after each break so its not true break and runs.
 
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