Archer vs. Strickland

[Renegade]

Who's the better player: Archer or Strickland?

Who's had more wins? What's their record facing off? Titles won?

Overall, it seems Archer's had better success than Strickland. Or were they dominant during different eras? Strickland in the 80s and Archer in the 90s?

As for the 2000s, Earl's won more money than Johnny from 2000-2002 based on AZB's Player Money List, but in 2003 JA topped the list, and from there consistently earned more money than Earl. Is Earl over the hill?

 

[Terry Ardeno]

Who's the better player: Archer or Strickland?

Who's had more wins? What's their record facing off? Titles won?

Overall, it seems Archer's had better success than Strickland. Or were they dominant during different eras? Strickland in the 80s and Archer in the 90s?

As for the 2000s, Earl's won more money than Johnny from 2000-2002 based on AZB's Player Money List, but in 2003 JA topped the list, and from there consistently earned more money than Earl. Is Earl over the hill?

Earl has 6 World 9 Ball Championships (1984, 1988, 1990, 1991,1994, 2002)
Johnny has 4 World 9 Ball Championships (1992, 1993, 1995, 1997)


Earl has 5 U.S. Open 9 ball Championships..(1984, 1987, 1993,1997, 2000)
Johnny has 1 U.S. Open 9 ball Championship...(1999)

Earl won the 1999 World 8 Ball Championship. Johnny has no 8 ball World Championships.

Stangely enough, neither has ever won any titles at the DCC.

Earl was born on June 8, 1961.
Johnny was born on Nov 12, 1968.

 

[Renegade]

Earl has 6 World 9 Ball Championships (1984, 1988, 1990, 1991,1994, 2002)
Johnny has 4 World 9 Ball Championships (1992, 1993, 1995, 1997)


Earl has 5 U.S. Open 9 ball Championships..(1984, 1987, 1993,1997, 2000)
Johnny has 1 U.S. Open 9 ball Championship...(1999)

Earl won the 1999 World 8 Ball Championship. Johnny has no 8 ball World Championships.

Stangely enough, neither has ever won any titles at the DCC.

Earl was born on June 8, 1961.
Johnny was born on Nov 12, 1968.

Wow, thanks for the stats, Terry. From titles won, it would seem Earl's had more success than Johnny, winning both the WPC and US Open in 3 different decades! Now that's impressive.

 

[Jadssons]

I feel that Strickland is on the downside of his career and Archer still has plenty of years left. I doubt anyone will ever win 5 U.S. Open titles, but Johnny still has time to catch him in alot of categories.

 

[muttley76]

Purely my opinion here, but I gotta go with JA. Although Earl had a more mercurial run, most of it was in the 80's and early 90's. At that point there wasn't the depth or parody that there has been since. The other factors, to me, are the fact that Johnny has been more consistently successful(his storied lack of us open titles notwithstanding), and also that Earl hasn't been much of a threat the last few years, even though the age difference is minimal. As far as DCC goes, to me it doesn't really count, as the 9 ball races are so short, and neither is known for their bank or onepocket game. Another telling stat is that not only was JA player of the decade for the 90's, but will be in the running for the 2000's.While Earl's reputation as feared money player and tourney champion is WELL deserved, I personally have to go with JA. The other main reason for this is that I have been lucky/unlucky enough to play both in tourneys, and if I had to pick one guy to play for me in a pinch hitter scenario for my dough, I want the longevity and consistency of JA. But, this is just my opinion.

 

[Renegade]

I feel that Strickland is on the downside of his career and Archer still has plenty of years left. I doubt anyone will ever win 5 U.S. Open titles, but Johnny still has time to catch him in alot of categories.

From Terry's info, I can see that Earl's only older than Johnny by 7 years, so maybe he still has some fight left in him. But yeah, from the way things are at present, Johnny's more likely to come up with the wins at this point. Then again, Earl's pulled some surprising comebacks in his career.... :smile:

 

[Renegade]

Purely my opinion here, but I gotta go with JA. Although Earl had a more mercurial run, most of it was in the 80's and early 90's. At that point there wasn't the depth or parody that there has been since. The other factors, to me, are the fact that Johnny has been more consistently successful(his storied lack of us open titles notwithstanding), and also that Earl hasn't been much of a threat the last few years, even though the age difference is minimal. As far as DCC goes, to me it doesn't really count, as the 9 ball races are so short, and neither is known for their bank or onepocket game. Another telling stat is that not only was JA player of the decade for the 90's, but will be in the running for the 2000's.While Earl's reputation as feared money player and tourney champion is WELL deserved, I personally have to go with JA. The other main reason for this is that I have been lucky/unlucky enough to play both in tourneys, and if I had to pick one guy to play for me in a pinch hitter scenario for my dough, I want the longevity and consistency of JA. But, this is just my opinion.

I also found it interesting that they never had much success in the DCC, as Terry pointed out. Although I differ from your opinion as it seems to me that the DCC matters a lot. I mean, both Neils Feijen and Ralf Souquet are not known to be bank pool and one-pocket players either, but they've managed to place well. They've obviously put a lot of importance on this particular event. And Master of the Table sounds like a nice title to have, don't you think?

But anyway, I hear you -- while Earl's had more success in the PAST, you feel that at present and possible even in the near FUTURE, Johnny's the better player. An opinion no doubt shared by a lot. Thanks for sharing!

 

[wahcheck]

earl v.s. johnny

I wonder what is the record between them when they have matched up...?
Seems to me Johnny Archer would be ahead there.....

 

[cmbwsu]

Earl vs Earl

'nuf said!

 

[muttley76]

I also found it interesting that they never had much success in the DCC, as Terry pointed out. Although I differ from your opinion as it seems to me that the DCC matters a lot. I mean, both Neils Feijen and Ralf Souquet are not known to be bank pool and one-pocket players either, but they've managed to place well. They've obviously put a lot of importance on this particular event. And Master of the Table sounds like a nice title to have, don't you think?

But anyway, I hear you -- while Earl's had more success in the PAST, you feel that at present and possible even in the near FUTURE, Johnny's the better player. An opinion no doubt shared by a lot. Thanks for sharing!

Just wanted to clarify: the DCC is important, but a race to 7, buyback, and weird draws where technically someone could get 7 or 8 byes in a row, nixes the idea that the better players have that big an advantage. Sure, the nineball event is usually going to be won by a champion, but as to which one is usually a coin flip.The fact that I have cashed points that out, as I am not a great player(take my word for it, lol). And also pertaining to the DCC, I don't believe that JA usually plays the other events, and I don't remember ever seeing Earl the last year, even in the 9 ball(could very well be wrong on those, just what I seem to remember). And also, with all due respect to Earl, even in the early 90's(I feel like it is necessary to go back that far, as Earl hasn't won anything that I know of in the last few years), JA was still the better player. Not as explosive, but far more consistent. Earl(it seems to me) won most of his titles at a time when pockets were bigger, and fields were much smaller in terms of players who could really dab it(once again I could be wrong, but didn't his dominance kind of wane once the filipinos showed up?) I really like the way he played, I just think that it is kind of hard to compare, especially since there is such a difference in their games now. Great discussion idea, though.:thumbup:

 

[Terry Ardeno]

Earl had a more mercurial run, most of it was in the 80's and early 90's. At that point there wasn't the depth or parody that there has been since.

Muttley,
You bring up a good and interesting point. With so many GREAT players from outside the USA nowadays, it's going to be almost impossible, if not outright impossible, for ANYONE from ANY nation to ever accumulate 6 World 9 Ball Championships.

Johnny has 4, BUT, he still needs 2 more and the talent pool in pool is deeper than ever. I would be willing to even say he's won all the World Championships that he ever will. He'll have to not only contend with the likes of SVB, he'll also have the established pros from Taiwan (Wu, Yang, Pei-Wei Chang, Po Chen Kuo, etc) and the Philippines, as well as the NEXT generation coming up there. Look out for Jung-Lin Chang and Pin-Yi Ko from Taiwan and don't forget about Robert Gomez and Jovan Bustamonte, as well as a host of other great Filipino cueists constantly being groomed in the land that brought us Efren, Parica, Luat and Andam. There's Alcano & Orcollo to worry about and if Marlon Manalo decides to travel more, look out! What if Alex Pagulayan gets bored with poker and returns to pool full time?

Look at Europe. The "Kaiser" Ralf Souquet can win any 9 ball tournament at any time. England now has the very dynamic trio of Peach, Appleton and Boyes to wreck havoc on the world stage. Somebody who is VERY dangerous is Vilmos Foldes from Hungary. What a talent he is! Mike has a hot stick, Hohmann can catch a gear and play almost flawless pool.

With this kind of talent around the world, what Earl has accomplished will, in all likelihood, never be replicated again.

Oh, and by the way. The last American to win a World 9 Ball Championship was Earl Strickland in 2002.

The last REPEAT winner of the World 9 Ball Championship was when Nick Varner pulled a Jack Nicklaus and won it in 1999. He had previously won WC's in 1982 and 1989!

Here is a list of recent ONE TIME WINNERS of the World 9 Ball Championships.....Ralf Souquet, Immonen, Hohmann, Pagulayan, Chia-Ching Wu, Alcano and Peach. Of that great talent pool, none of them has yet to win a 2nd World Championship.

Does anyone really believe anyone will ever win 6 World 9 Ball Championships ever again? I don't.

We were PRIVILEGED to have been able to watch Earl "The Pearl" Strickland, a once in a life-time talent!

 

[muttley76]

I agree with you. The chances of anybody winning more than maybe two in the forseeable future is probably nil. There are simply too many good players now.And don't forget the recent crop of Americans who have come out of the woodwork either. SVB is a monster, but there are plenty more. Makes me wish I had been born 20 years earlier, so things would be a little easier:grin: .

 

[Fatboy]

Earl has a higher gear than JA. JA plays alot more consistantly than Earl. so it kinda equals out.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

I agree with you. The chances of anybody winning more than maybe two in the forseeable future is probably nil. There are simply too many good players now.And don't forget the recent crop of Americans who have come out of the woodwork either. SVB is a monster, but there are plenty more. Makes me wish I had been born 20 years earlier, so things would be a little easier:grin: .

I wish that John Schmidt would get big time sponsorship and be able to fly.
If HE was playing in the WC's, America would have another big time threat, along w/ SVB. I think John Schmidt has all the talent needed to win a few of these championships.

As it stand, our hopes ride mainly on Shane. And I'm very OK with that!

 

[punter]

I agree with you. The chances of anybody winning more than maybe two in the forseeable future is probably nil. There are simply too many good players now.And don't forget the recent crop of Americans who have come out of the woodwork either. SVB is a monster, but there are plenty more. Makes me wish I had been born 20 years earlier, so things would be a little easier:grin: .

And 20 years from now, some 20 year old will be saying the same thing you just did.

 

[Renegade]

Just wanted to clarify: the DCC is important, but a race to 7, buyback, and weird draws where technically someone could get 7 or 8 byes in a row, nixes the idea that the better players have that big an advantage. Sure, the nineball event is usually going to be won by a champion, but as to which one is usually a coin flip.The fact that I have cashed points that out, as I am not a great player(take my word for it, lol). And also pertaining to the DCC, I don't believe that JA usually plays the other events, and I don't remember ever seeing Earl the last year, even in the 9 ball(could very well be wrong on those, just what I seem to remember). And also, with all due respect to Earl, even in the early 90's(I feel like it is necessary to go back that far, as Earl hasn't won anything that I know of in the last few years), JA was still the better player. Not as explosive, but far more consistent. Earl(it seems to me) won most of his titles at a time when pockets were bigger, and fields were much smaller in terms of players who could really dab it(once again I could be wrong, but didn't his dominance kind of wane once the filipinos showed up?) I really like the way he played, I just think that it is kind of hard to compare, especially since there is such a difference in their games now. Great discussion idea, though.:thumbup:

hmmm, you might have a point there. Come to think of it, comparing based on titles won is not such a good measure of playing ability, as like you said, there are a number of factors to consider, like depth of the field, if either player really played that year, quality of tables, the weather, etc. etc. So, as wahcheck said, it would be interesting to know how these two fared against each other in tournament play. I think that would be the only objective (albeit still limited) way to determine who's better. Question is, does anyone have those stats? Terry?

 

[Renegade]

I wish that John Schmidt would get big time sponsorship and be able to fly.
If HE was playing in the WC's, America would have another big time threat, along w/ SVB. I think John Schmidt has all the talent needed to win a few of these championships.

As it stand, our hopes ride mainly on Shane. And I'm very OK with that!

I feel that maybe SVB and JS are the ES and JA of this era! Too bad JS isn't nearly as active.

But like you, I also believe that the record set by Earl and Johnny (who have 10 WPCs and 6 US Opens between them) would never be equalled, not because no one is playing better than them, but because there are just too many good players out there now!

 

[muttley76]

I wish that John Schmidt would get big time sponsorship and be able to fly.
If HE was playing in the WC's, America would have another big time threat, along w/ SVB. I think John Schmidt has all the talent needed to win a few of these championships.

As it stand, our hopes ride mainly on Shane. And I'm very OK with that!

While SVB is the hot young gun, don't forget guys like Bergman,Hennessee, etc. And for what it is worth(and I am a bit biased here, since he is a buddy) Stevie Moore is hitting em on par with pretty much anybody.

 

[muttley76]

And 20 years from now, some 20 year old will be saying the same thing you just did.

The only problem is that I'm 32, lol.

 

[punter]

The only problem is that I'm 32, lol.

I wasn't intimating that you were 20, instead that in general people tend to discount prior generations of players when they really don't have much knowledge of them. No, I'm not an expert, but I saw some of the great players of the 70's and 80's and there were plenty of great ones. The game certainly has changed, pockets are tighter, but you had to have a more powerful stroke to play on the old slow cloth, so I wouldn't say conditions today are tougher. IMO position play today is easier. And granted, today it is much more a worldwide sport.

These kind of discussions can and do go on in all sports.