Are bar tables hurting the game
- Thread starter JCL
- Start date
Ummmmm let me think about this...YES. Horrible for your game. Promotes poor stroke mechanics and fundamentals. Invented to let drunks put quarters in slots. You know what Fedor used for a practice table? A 10 foot Diamond and it shows. All the Snooker females who came over the pond (Alison, Karen & Kelly) grew up on snooker tables. Check out their fundamentals.
Meanwhile the country that gave the world pool can't find 5 suitable opponents for the Mosconi.
Flame on.
Meanwhile the country that gave the world pool can't find 5 suitable opponents for the Mosconi.
Flame on.
BAR tables. Darts, board games. All activities to entertain people in a social setting. Bars have limited room. 2 bar tables instead of 1 larger table. Bar leagues keep people in the bar. Makes money and entertains people. Don’t like it ? Go to a pool hall. Pool hall owners who bitch about bar tables don’t understand the concept of running a business to maxim $$$$. That’s why many pool hall owners struggle to survive. Why not say people should not play checkers, it bad for chess. Don’t like go to a pool hall.
Go to super billiards expo. 10 big tables. 300 bar tables. The expo struggles to fill seats in main arena. Look at the 1000’s playing and watching bar table pool. Ruining the games? Or making money? Don’t like like go to a pool hall. I don’t like spinach. I go around bitching about people who eat spinach I order corn.
DONT LIKE IT GO TO A POOL HALL
Go to super billiards expo. 10 big tables. 300 bar tables. The expo struggles to fill seats in main arena. Look at the 1000’s playing and watching bar table pool. Ruining the games? Or making money? Don’t like like go to a pool hall. I don’t like spinach. I go around bitching about people who eat spinach I order corn.
DONT LIKE IT GO TO A POOL HALL
It’s a double edge sword. If you took away bar table’s 3/4 of the tables in this country would disappear. The amount of people with access to the game with drop dramatically. That’s a lot less people buying cue’s and all the other stuff that goes a long with the game. Most bars just don’t have room for 9 foot tables. I have no pool halls in the town I live. they’ve been gone for years. Decades even. So if you want to play pool bar tables are your only choice.
On the other side of that yeah when it comes to the pro game we most likely do suffer. It’s harder to find pro quality equipment to play on. I also think we really have not instructors for kids in this country like I believe a lot of parts of the world do. The uk just takes this game more seriously than we do. There is a lot of money in snooker so like golf is in this country a lot more kids want to play it and have access to instruction and great equipment.
On the other side of that yeah when it comes to the pro game we most likely do suffer. It’s harder to find pro quality equipment to play on. I also think we really have not instructors for kids in this country like I believe a lot of parts of the world do. The uk just takes this game more seriously than we do. There is a lot of money in snooker so like golf is in this country a lot more kids want to play it and have access to instruction and great equipment.
The tables no. Tables in bars possibly. Drunk pool is not a good way to develop.
Bar-box pool will always be bigger in this country than big table pool. Deal with it. The people that play it/like it also usually(mostly??) don't give a flying fk about the Mosconi Cup or pro pool in general. There's also a lot of money won every week in some bar-table event with a calcutta that sometimes pays more than some so-called 'pro' tournaments.
HUGE difference in the US and rest of the world as far as pool goes. Europe/Asia the game is more of a sport. In the US big-table pool has always been part of a sub-culture known as the 'pool room' with its assorted niceties like dope, gambling, etc. Poolroom culture still looms large over the game. Its shedding the image but VERY slowly. Getting people back on the big tables in large numbers still is a major work in progress.
LOL, great rebuttal
S
Pool still could have a come back, but the days of huge shopping center rooms in every city are over. (SQ footage cost and energy cost are much higher than revenue)
The model these days is big bar league rooms with a couple big tables. (At least it's something)
I like the private club model. If there was one near me I would join. (Just a serious practice spot)
Maybe club play could morph into a national straight pool league. (Better for TV)
My opinion
So bar tables are not hurting pool. (They may be keeping pool alive)
Pool still could have a come back, but the days of huge shopping center rooms in every city are over. (SQ footage cost and energy cost are much higher than revenue)
The model these days is big bar league rooms with a couple big tables. (At least it's something)
I like the private club model. If there was one near me I would join. (Just a serious practice spot)
Maybe club play could morph into a national straight pool league. (Better for TV)
My opinion
Bar tables=revenue for a pool room.
I go to Felt billiards every Saturday and the 11 9 foot tables are always full of mostly regulars.
Felt is a large pool room/sports bar with a lot TV's plus Texas holdem poker.
Helluva joint.
The 15 7 footers (? I've never counted them) are mostly full of non regulars and they are ordering food and alcohol,thats a big revenue stream.
But pro tournaments' on 7 footers is a joke but again it provides revenue for the room and players.
I go to Felt billiards every Saturday and the 11 9 foot tables are always full of mostly regulars.
Felt is a large pool room/sports bar with a lot TV's plus Texas holdem poker.
Helluva joint.
The 15 7 footers (? I've never counted them) are mostly full of non regulars and they are ordering food and alcohol,thats a big revenue stream.
But pro tournaments' on 7 footers is a joke but again it provides revenue for the room and players.
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Let's look at it from a scientific point of view. It all depends on how the table is set up. If you are playing on a box with huge pockets and wide pocket angles, then yes, skills will never improve.
Now, play on a 7 foot table with 4 1/4 inch pockets and a 141 deg pocket angle and deeper shelves. Very different animal. Research Penguin Pro Cut Rails.
Our 9 foot Gold Crown has standard 5 inch pockets. I think it plays easier then my United bar box with 4 3/8 ( I re measured... they are slightly less then 4 1/4)pockets. I dont rattle pockets on the 9 ft like I do on the 7 foot.
Let's use an analogy that some of you rifle shooters will appreciate. Rifle accuracy is usually described in MOA (MINUTE OF ANGLE). If a rifle will hold 1 minute of angle at 100 yards, then it will be the same 1 moa at 50 yards. In a no wind condition and a solid rest, it is exactly the same to shoot 1 moa groups at 50 yards, and 1 moa groups at 100 yards. It is just as easy to shoot 1/2 in groups at 50 yards as it is 1 in groups at 100 yards.
Same with the tables. Bigger pockets on the bigger table will play the same as a smaller table with smaller pockets. Of course that doesnt take into account the tighter traffic on the small table.
To conclude, if you are playing with good cue ball control, you wont have any longer shots on a 9 foot then you would a 7 foot. Now, if I reduce the 9 foot pockets to 4 1/4 , then it's a whole new ball game.
Now, play on a 7 foot table with 4 1/4 inch pockets and a 141 deg pocket angle and deeper shelves. Very different animal. Research Penguin Pro Cut Rails.
Our 9 foot Gold Crown has standard 5 inch pockets. I think it plays easier then my United bar box with 4 3/8 ( I re measured... they are slightly less then 4 1/4)pockets. I dont rattle pockets on the 9 ft like I do on the 7 foot.
Let's use an analogy that some of you rifle shooters will appreciate. Rifle accuracy is usually described in MOA (MINUTE OF ANGLE). If a rifle will hold 1 minute of angle at 100 yards, then it will be the same 1 moa at 50 yards. In a no wind condition and a solid rest, it is exactly the same to shoot 1 moa groups at 50 yards, and 1 moa groups at 100 yards. It is just as easy to shoot 1/2 in groups at 50 yards as it is 1 in groups at 100 yards.
Same with the tables. Bigger pockets on the bigger table will play the same as a smaller table with smaller pockets. Of course that doesnt take into account the tighter traffic on the small table.
To conclude, if you are playing with good cue ball control, you wont have any longer shots on a 9 foot then you would a 7 foot. Now, if I reduce the 9 foot pockets to 4 1/4 , then it's a whole new ball game.
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None of this has anything to do with the state of big table vs. bar table pool.
Duh. (Scratching my head and my arse at the same time over this analogy.)
WTF? I've watched plenty of their streams and all have been well done. The tournament you refer to has been going for well over 15yrs and pays out big $$ with good action as well. Don't like it don't watch but no reason to knock it. You probably couldn't beat three in the field. On any table.
OK, everyone please forgive me straying from the topic briefly here, but this (likely inadvertent) misstatement must be corrected lest other shooter’s heads explode.
1 MOA (minute of angle) at 100 yards is not the same as 1/2 MOA at 50 yards. 1 MOA equates to an accuracy of 1 inch dispersion at 100 yards. That same 1 MOA would be 1/2 inch at 50 yards (hence the confusion), 2 inches at 200 yards, 5 inches at 500 yards, etc…
1/2 MOA at 50 yards would equate to an accuracy of 1/4 inch at 50 yards, 1/2 inch at 100 yards, 1 inch at 200 yards, etc…
We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
No, bar boxes are good for pool because they allow for more people to play, whether recreationally or competitively.
Whether or not they are “good” for professional pool is a completely different subject.
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I have to look back 55 years when I started playing on a bar box in NY. Quarter a beer, Quarter a game, loser buys next round. Yeah buckets and almost no shelf. Pretty soon I was having a night out for a dollar investment plus gas. Because during the week after work I started dropping in at the local hall for a hour or so. Practice on the Gold Crown and "play" on the Valley.
Now I'm retired with a GC4 and a Valley 88 in the basement. Reliving my youth with my geezer buddies. I have to look back and think the box was good for pool because it was the introduction for so many of us even when hall's were everywhere. That is especially true today due to square foot rental costs vs. profits. The more people try the game the more folks will develop a interest in playing the sport.
Now I'm retired with a GC4 and a Valley 88 in the basement. Reliving my youth with my geezer buddies. I have to look back and think the box was good for pool because it was the introduction for so many of us even when hall's were everywhere. That is especially true today due to square foot rental costs vs. profits. The more people try the game the more folks will develop a interest in playing the sport.
Yeah bar boxes are great for bars,it gives the drunks pool cues to beat each other with.
And balls to throw,saw that once in a pool room,scary stuff.
And balls to throw,saw that once in a pool room,scary stuff.