Are Elite Athletes Born or Made

"Sine Labore Nihil"

or if you prefer

"Nil Sine Labore"

Nothing of value comes for free. Even if if did, one will never appreciate it as much as the person who worked for it.
 
BeiberLvr said:
With both pool and athletic sports, it is a combination of both, but it's more of a talent factor with the athletic sports.

If I were to practice 8-10 hours a day for the next 3 to 5 years, I could definitely compete in any pool tournament. Does this mean I would be as good as guys like Shane, Orcullo, Thorsten, etc? No, but I'd be able to play them and actually have a chance of winning.

Now if I were to do the same for an athletic sport like baseball. Practice 8-10 hours a day, and have a ton of coaching. The best I could ever hope for is to be decent in the minors, but I'd have NO SHOT at being in the majors.
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one stroke said:
You would have zero chance of winning , don't care how much you practice ,,


1
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How would you know until he put in the time?

http://thedanplan.com/

Talent has little to do with success. According to research conducted by Dr. K. Anders Ericsson, Professor of Psychology at Florida State University, “Elite performers engage in ‘deliberate practice’–an effortful activity designed to improve target performance.” Dr. Ericsson’s studies, made popular through Malcolm Gladwell’s book Outliers and Geoff Colvin’s Talent is Overrated, have found that in order to excel in a field, roughly 10,000 hours of “stretching yourself beyond what you can currently do” is required. “I think you’re the right astronaut for this mission,” Dr. Ericsson said about The Dan Plan.
 
"if it feels right (in pocket billiards) it's probably wrong"

From my experience we must be willing to give up something to progress in life. Some people, for whatever reason are simply unwilling to give up what's comfortable or natural to them.

"if it feels right (in pocket billiards) it's probably wrong" - always be willing to develop in such a way that you can easily make adjustments and/or corrections without any personal attachment.


(((Satori))) said:
Have you ever tried to pinpoint exactly where your limit on something is... then asked yourself if it's really impossible to do a little better?
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I think we all should quit our day job and get coached/train to be better than svb. I mean we all have the capabilities. I could play pool for 100 grand a year
 
krupa said:
What I haven't seen is any discussion about the people who tried and failed: golfers who never make it off the web.com tour, baseball players who never get called up to the majors. Is it just timing? For baseball it certainly can be, but in golf you guide your future. So why can't a guy on web.com -- someone who is so much better than anyone you will ever see at your local course it would make you cry -- get those crucial wins and move up? Whatever it is, it isn't something you can get through practice.
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What are you talking about minor league ball players and web.com golfers, obvious to me all of these guys have put in a ton of hours, many have TALENT and basically all play at high level, just not the most elite level. They are pro's can play the game they play. Lots of skill in how they play the game. But if a hundred show up only one can win. The elite want it, believe in their own game and get the job done, might be as much mental as talent. Many, many ingredients in a champion and they might be born but perhaps they are build able.

I would say an elite athlete can be trained, but a champion come from within and is not born.
 
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I've been involved in sports for 62 years....as a kid, in high school, and later in life as a softball and baseball coach. That's where I learned the correct answer to the question.......I thought I knew before but after 15 years of sports coaching, the answer was revealed and it is the only correct answer.


Athletes are made not born.
Nor everyone born can be made into an athlete.
Every athlete can aspire to be great and only some will succeed.
The great athletes are born not made........that why there are so few.

Say what you will but that's why there's not a dozen Babe Ruth or Hank Aaron baseball players today.
The great ones are born with an edge that gets sharpened faster and better and develops into the skills set that makes them a great athlete.......and they develop the winning attitude, drive and desire that propels into accomplishing sports achievements that others cannot match.......practically anyone can become an athlete but the great athletes....the legendary icons....those guys were born.

I watched the same things with youth and especially high school sports....you can spot the ones that have a chance at stardom......collegiate scholarships and professional sports.......lots of players may take the field or the court but there's but a scant few that have the skills set to soar into greatness. You can call it what you will..... drive, commitment.....blah, blah, blah. The great players were born with something different.....it doesn't blossom for everyone that has it. Great athletes are tempered by life's circumstances and opportunities along the way etc. It's not some inner will or drive these players developed because of their dad, some uncle or a special coach........I've coached well over a thousand athletes and seen players from all kinds of backgrounds, family circumstances, etc. It's a gift that great athletes have........and very few possess it.

Matt B.
 
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Maybe the difference is "all in the mind"

Maybe the difference is "all in the mind" of the athlete, artist, musician, performer, businessman, etc. - maybe it's more about tapping into one's maximum potential.

subconsiousmind.jpg




(((Satori))) said:
I explain this with the Power of the self-image.


Nevermind for a moment the relationship between the self image and the subconscious mind when performiing and just imagine the difference in the quality of practice between someone who sees themselves simply as a B player who has been that way for years and doesn't have much hope in getting better, compared to a hungry individual who knows he has what it takes to improve and he can picture himself being amongst some of the best someday and right now he is willing to do what it takes to make it happen. Even if they are doing the same things in practice the quality between the two will be much different.
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CJ Wiley said:
Maybe the difference is "all in the mind" of the athlete, artist, musician, performer, businessman, etc. - maybe it's more about tapping into one's maximum potential.

subconsiousmind.jpg
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I think he's onto something here ^^^


Why am I the Colonel? Because I always get the chicken
 
I don't think Lou Gehrig sub-consconious mind had anything to do with his greatness or Homer Wagner or Walter Johnson, or George Miken, Bob Cousy or Bob Hays, Al Oerter, Jim Thorpe, or Johnny Weismuller, Greg Lagounis, Bobby Orr, Mario Lemieux, or Ben Hogan, Walter Hagen....

C.J. is right about today's training methods and ideas being more than helpful to athletes getting better and improving. But that is something that works hand in hand with great athletes from different eras and generations in all sports. Nonetheless, this still doesn't answer the question posed.....born or made?

The answer is "born" and today's training concepts & methods only help accelerate the improvement curve and elevate the whole playing field since every contestant or athlete has the same access and availability to a variety of tools. like TOI and others. What it does indirectly and unintentionally is raise the bar height for achieving greatness because the overall field just got better. ...because of training aids like TOI. But that isn't what helps achieve greatness.....come on......get real.......athletes today have baseball & basketball camps, hockey leagues, T-Ball, Cal Ripken & Babe Ruth Leagues, high school & collegiate sports programs, etc. So sure, today the overall field in everything played competitively is stronger and tougher........records are always being broken.....well, some are because some of the records set by the greats still stand today despite years of assault by modern athletes.

Willie Mosconi didn't become the greatest pool player that ever lived, seemingly pocket balls so easily, set world records that remain unduplicated, by reading and studying books on pool strategy, position play, aiming systems. Willie didn't have videos to study to improve or any coaches or pool academies to attend. Heck, Willie didn't even have the greatest pool stroke and shot a little quickly, at least in my opinion. But the man was best that ever played the game and "dominated" competitive pocket billiards for decades. make no mistake about it, Willie spearheaded the initial boom in the billiard industry after WWII with the return of our veterans. By the late 50's & early 60's, pool halls were showing up everywhere because of Brunswick's nation-wide commercial leasing program that Willie was the spokesperson for. Yup, Willie Mosconi was born to play pool and no one taught him how to become great......he was a self-made pool player, taught himself by the experience of practice and competitive play (later on it was beating Greenleaf as he so often did on the Brunswick tour) that allowed Willie's greatness..... that he was "born" with....to come forth for all the world to see and enjoy.

Matt B.
 
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Bavafongoul said:
I don't think Lou Gehrig sub-consconious mind had anything to do with his greatness or Homer Wagner or Walter Johnson, or George Miken, Bob Cousy or Bob Hays, Al Oerter, Jim Thorpe, or Johnny Weismuller, Greg Lagounis, Bobby Orr, Mario Lemieux, or Ben Hogan, Walter Hagen....

C.J. is right about today's training methods and ideas being more than helpful to athletes getting better and improving. But that is something that works hand in hand with great athletes from different eras and generations in all sports. Nonetheless, this still doesn't answer the question posed.....born or made?

The answer is "born" and today's training concepts & methods only help accelerate the improvement curve and elevate the whole playing field since every contestant or athlete has the same access and availability to a variety of tools. like TOI and others. What it does indirectly and unintentionally is raise the bar height for achieving greatness because the overall field just got better. ...because of training aids like TOI. But that isn't what helps achieve greatness.....come on......get real.......athletes today have baseball & basketball camps, hockey leagues, T-Ball, Cal Ripken & Babe Ruth Leagues, high school & collegiate sports programs, etc. So sure, today the overall field in everything played competitively is stronger and tougher........records are always being broken.....well, some are because some of the records set by the greats still stand today despite years of assault by modern athletes.

Willie Mosconi didn't become the greatest pool player that ever lived, seemingly pocket balls so easily, set world records that remain unduplicated, by reading and studying books on pool strategy, position play, aiming systems. Willie didn't have videos to study to improve or any coaches or pool academies to attend. Heck, Willie didn't even have the greatest pool stroke and shot a little quickly, at least in my opinion. But the man was best that ever played the game and "dominated" competitive pocket billiards for decades. make no mistake about it, Willie spearheaded the initial boom in the billiard industry after WWII with the return of our veterans. By the late 50's & early 60's, pool halls were showing up everywhere because of Brunswick's nation-wide commercial leasing program that Willie was the spokesperson for. Yup, Willie Mosconi was born to play pool and no one taught him how to become great......he was a self-made pool player, taught himself by the experience of practice and competitive play (later on it was beating Greenleaf as he so often did on the Brunswick tour) that allowed Willie's greatness..... that he was "born" with....to come forth for all the world to see. and enjoy.

Matt B.
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Of course Lou Gehrig's subconscious mind had a lot to do with his success... along with every other great athlete that ever lived.
 
Even the physical body is more of a "hologram" of the subconscious

(((Satori))) said:
Of course Lou Gehrig's subconscious mind had a lot to do with his success... along with every other great athlete that ever lived.
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Yes, my conscious AND subconscious have to agree with you. Even the physical body is more of a "hologram" of the subconscious....without the behavior (behaviors come from the subconscious) that drives any athlete to train obsessively (obsessions also come from the subconscious) they would never have their dominant speed, strength, coordination, etc.

subconscious-mind-power.png
 
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