Are there any English Billiards players here?

[Cameron Smith]

I'm just curious how many of you guys play this game. I've been playing it a bit, and as I get better I am really starting to enjoy it.

Part of the reason I started practicing it more consistently is that I have got in to a bit of slump playing pool. So, by playing a game I am crap at anyways, I don't really notice if I'm playing bad.

Do any of you have any drills that would help in practicing? Currently what I am doing is starting with the red on its spot, the yellow on the centre spot and cue ball in the D (I think this is the penalty position but I'm not sure). I shoot the long inoff the yellow in to the top corner pocket and leave the yellow near the red and go from there.

I would really appreciate learning any other routines.

 

[TheWizard]

Hey there, yes, I have played English Billiards, for a few years, as well as pool, I competed in a local 4 man team league for a few years, as well as an a few individuals tournaments

It can be played on a pool table as well as a snooker table, but playing it on a pool table doesn't give as big a benifit, because of the larger pockets.

There's only 1 practice drill that I'm aware of, and that is pretty simple to set up

1. Place the red ball on the spot nearest the bottom rail, then place the other cueball on the centre spot, not then, what you want to do is pick up the CB, and play it from the headstring, about 1 and a 1/4 diamonds out from either side rail, and play a deliberate scratch, off the OCB, playing your own CB, into the lower corner pocket, but playing it in such a way, that the OCB goes 2 rails, and finishes up, withing carom distance to the RB, and then continue playing in a regular fashion, to see what high run you score.

If/when you miss, set them up the same way as before, and start again, this will help you build bigger high runs, but also, playing Enlgish Billiards is great for learning more advanced angles, and using spin in with a completely different stroke

I hope that this helps, and if I can be of anymore help, feel free to send me a PM

Willie

 

[vagabond]

I'm just curious how many of you guys play this game. QUOTE]

That game is played only in British common wealth countries and Americans are not familiar with that game.The best players are from India.

 

[Cameron Smith]

1. Place the red ball on the spot nearest the bottom rail, then place the other cueball on the centre spot, not then, what you want to do is pick up the CB, and play it from the headstring, about 1 and a 1/4 diamonds out from either side rail, and play a deliberate scratch, off the OCB, playing your own CB, into the lower corner pocket, but playing it in such a way, that the OCB goes 2 rails, and finishes up, withing carom distance to the RB, and then continue playing in a regular fashion, to see what high run you score.

Thanks for the input. I wish I had some tournaments to compete in. Very few people have even heard of the game around here, so it is not surprising I have only ever been able to find one match of 100up. As you can imagine I am quite envious.

The drill you mention is actually what I was doing earlier today (err yesterday). After a few adjustments I was able to make the long in off and position the yellow ball next to the red every time. But I was only able to compile one break of note. Sadly I am not sure exactly how big the break was as I was not keeping track. Easily under 100 though.

I've seen on youtube the video's of Walter Lindrum knocking the red towards the corner pocket and caroming in to the yellow. Then he follows up with a pot on the red and positions the white so he can do it again. I'm trying to figure out how to get the cue ball position for that consistently.

My goal right now is to run 100 by the end of the year. Fingers crossed.

 

[ajrack]

Buy a book

I have purchased many pool, billiard and snooker books. I recommend you find a "Teach yourself Book ... by R Holt... Billiards and Snooker"..published in England. I have an old 1974 copy and it has quite a few drills.
If you need a web site let me know ...there are many that have snooker and "English" billiards books. I think I paid about $6. I also have found an original Walter Lindrum Tooheys Book. Great book with photos and diagrams. There are a few out there in the $200 range! Also, a John Roberts..Modern Billiards 1919.
I also have video of Murt O'donahough giving an exhibition for Sydney Australian TV. If I can find it, I will make a copy...I just moved recently. I have been very lucky finding books.

 

[Boro Nut]

That game is played only in British common wealth countries and Americans are not familiar with that game.The best players are from India.

The best players are from Middlesbrough.

Boro Nut

 

[Boro Nut]

I'm just curious how many of you guys play this game. I've been playing it a bit, and as I get better I am really starting to enjoy it.

Yes, it's a great game, and our local league is second to none. Use a lighter grip on the cue and stroke right throught the ball on all shots. Billiards is a game of graceful curves. Snooker is all about straight lines. It's a completely different mentallity trying to control three balls instead of one, but eventually your muscle memory does most of the work and you play a series of standard scoring shots to amass a break. The balls just seem to fall into the next scoring position without effort.

For a starter I'd just concentrate on learning the half ball in offs. Starting from the centre spot learn where to place the ball for the long in-off. I like to play it wider with top to bring the other white around the angles and back over the middle pocket. Play both sides of the table equally so you don't favour one over the other. And make sure you're really hitting half ball - ie aim at the extreme outer edge of the ball. Most people play too thick.

Next off the pyramid spot. Start by placing he ball touching an imaginary ball on one of the end spots of the D and adjust to suit your stroke.

The natural half ball angles off the red are:

1 - a straight line from the near knuckle of the middle pocket to the outside of the red. You can't miss. If you're inside this line play with check side but aim your cue to the outside of the red just like a normal half ball shot. This will get you the thin contact you need and also put the correct side on the ball to make the pocket bigger. If you're outside of the line play with top to force the ball in. It sounds difficult and counter-intuitive at first but it's a doddle. You still play half ball and just adjust how hard you hit it to widen the angle. Work out where your limit is, and watch where the red goes - force it in and out of baulk if necessary.

2 - From the near knuckle of the top pockets off the back of the red. It will fly into the opposite pocket and put the red over the middle.

The practice in-offs into the middle with the object ball above centre. Play to send the object ball up and down to the same spot, and repeat. It takes a while to get the knack but it's a massive scorer.

Practice Drop cannons from the D onto the spotted red. Once you have the half ball angle nailed into your memory you can set up for a full ball cannon and then adjust the position of your cue ball slightly to hit the correct side of the red to put it over the corner pocket. Alternate this with gathering the balls together.

Learn 1/4 and 3/4 angles as above. The interesting thing is the cue ball deflection angles are the same.

Learn to play with check side along the cushions. It sucks the ball into the pocket and you can force an in-off from nearly anywhere.

Boro Nut

 

[raybo147]

Cameron do you live near Philly? Drexeline has a great snooker table and I was lucky enough to play Karen Corr english billiards for a little bit there. She was the ladies world champion at this sport back when she was playing snooker, and she has a proper set of billiard balls that she brought out with her. Bob Maidof who can play a bit himself was watching and could not believe some of shots that are routinely played in this game. Great game, wish it was played more out here.

 

[vagabond]

The best players are from Middlesbrough.

Boro Nut

Cheers Boro nut,
long time no see.how have u been?
Wilson Jones is not from Middlesbrough.He is from Bangalore,India
Michael Fereira is neither from Middlesbrough, England nor Roma,italy.He was born and raised in India.I am a old guy and I only remember the old times.I do not know the current champions.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I'm just curious how many of you guys play this game. ... Do any of you have any drills that would help in practicing? ...

I've played it off and on since about 1966. I recently got to play Robby Foldvari for an hour or so, and he seemed to play quite reasonably even though as far as I could tell he is neither Indian nor Middlesbrogian. The main local competition is the former Indian Junior Snooker Champ.

When I was practicing, the main thing was in-offs, both to find the easy line and to make the ones from the hard lines.

I think that Holt's "Billiards and Snooker" (Teach Yourself Books series) is probably the easiest book to find on the subject. I see it used for under $5. Or, you could get Riso Levi's complete series.

 

[vagabond]

The main local competition is the former Indian Junior Snooker Champ.

It will be interesting to watch those guys in India doing Mase` shots in their native cloths (a long cloth wraped around the waist covering the legs) and pulling up the cloth above their knees before taking the stance for mase` shots.

 

[Boro Nut]

Cheers Boro nut,
long time no see.how have u been?
Wilson Jones is not from Middlesbrough.He is from Bangalore,India
Michael Fereira is neither from Middlesbrough, England nor Roma,italy.He was born and raised in India.I am a old guy and I only remember the old times.I do not know the current champions.

Definitely a bit behind the times. The fabled Teesside Boys Billiards League was founded in the seventies in an effort to keep the game alive locally. Soon its players were sweeping junior competition nationally, and Joe Davis boys billiards records began to tumble. By 1989 two of it's former players were contesting the World Professional Billiards Championship. With the exception of the brilliant Geet Sethi it's just about been that way ever since. At the national level, if you look up a national billiards champion of any stripe and it doesn't say Middlesbrough (or environs) after his name it's probably because he's left home.

Here's how this year's competition went - Mike Russel Again!. Finalists Mike Russel and Chris Shutt are both local boy products of the league, as are Peter Gilchrist, Paul Bennet, Dave Causier, Lee Lagan et al. You know when your small northern town can boast the world's top 5 ranked players in any sport they must be doing something right. If Taiwan hadn't already brought the message home to you it shows what can be achieved with the correct training facilities at an early age.

Incidentally 2005 World Champion Chris Shutt once travelled to an away match (then only a 13 year old wonderboy) locked in the boot of my overcrowded car. We couldn't risk damaging our precious cues you see, which travelled up front with us important hackers.

Boro Nut

 

[vagabond]

Definitely a bit behind the times. The fabled Teesside Boys Billiards League was founded in the seventies in an effort to keep the game alive locally. Soon its players were sweeping junior competition nationally, and Joe Davis boys billiards records began to tumble. By 1989 two of it's former players were contesting the World Professional Billiards Championship. With the exception of the brilliant Geet Sethi it's just about been that way ever since. At the national level, if you look up a national billiards champion of any stripe and it doesn't say Middlesbrough (or environs) after his name it's probably because he's left home.

Here's how this year's competition went - Mike Russel Again!. Finalists Mike Russel and Chris Shutt are both local boy products of the league, as are Peter Gilchrist, Paul Bennet, Dave Causier, Lee Lagan et al. You know when your small northern town can boast the world's top 5 ranked players in any sport they must be doing something right. If Taiwan hadn't already brought the message home to you it shows what can be achieved with the correct training facilities at an early age.

Incidentally 2005 World Champion Chris Shutt once travelled to an away match (then only a 13 year old wonderboy) locked in the boot of my overcrowded car. We couldn't risk damaging our precious cues you see, which travelled up front with us important hackers.

Boro Nut

Thanks for the update mate.I am not a southern snob to pick on northern knobs. don`t be a stranger mate.once again cheers

 

[Cameron Smith]

I've played it off and on since about 1966. I recently got to play Robby Foldvari for an hour or so, and he seemed to play quite reasonably even though as far as I could tell he is neither Indian nor Middlesbrogian. The main local competition is the former Indian Junior Snooker Champ.

When I was practicing, the main thing was in-offs, both to find the easy line and to make the ones from the hard lines.

I think that Holt's "Billiards and Snooker" (Teach Yourself Books series) is probably the easiest book to find on the subject. I see it used for under $5. Or, you could get Riso Levi's complete series.

I bought Riso Levi's "Billiards in the Twentieth Century" which is an excellent book. However it seems to be more anecdotal than instructional, although there is a bit of that.

 

[Cameron Smith]

Yes, it's a great game, and our local league is second to none. Use a lighter grip on the cue and stroke right throught the ball on all shots. Billiards is a game of graceful curves. Snooker is all about straight lines. It's a completely different mentallity trying to control three balls instead of one, but eventually your muscle memory does most of the work and you play a series of standard scoring shots to amass a break. The balls just seem to fall into the next scoring position without effort.

For a starter I'd just concentrate on learning the half ball in offs. Starting from the centre spot learn where to place the ball for the long in-off. I like to play it wider with top to bring the other white around the angles and back over the middle pocket. Play both sides of the table equally so you don't favour one over the other. And make sure you're really hitting half ball - ie aim at the extreme outer edge of the ball. Most people play too thick.

Next off the pyramid spot. Start by placing he ball touching an imaginary ball on one of the end spots of the D and adjust to suit your stroke.

The natural half ball angles off the red are:

1 - a straight line from the near knuckle of the middle pocket to the outside of the red. You can't miss. If you're inside this line play with check side but aim your cue to the outside of the red just like a normal half ball shot. This will get you the thin contact you need and also put the correct side on the ball to make the pocket bigger. If you're outside of the line play with top to force the ball in. It sounds difficult and counter-intuitive at first but it's a doddle. You still play half ball and just adjust how hard you hit it to widen the angle. Work out where your limit is, and watch where the red goes - force it in and out of baulk if necessary.

2 - From the near knuckle of the top pockets off the back of the red. It will fly into the opposite pocket and put the red over the middle.

The practice in-offs into the middle with the object ball above centre. Play to send the object ball up and down to the same spot, and repeat. It takes a while to get the knack but it's a massive scorer.

Practice Drop cannons from the D onto the spotted red. Once you have the half ball angle nailed into your memory you can set up for a full ball cannon and then adjust the position of your cue ball slightly to hit the correct side of the red to put it over the corner pocket. Alternate this with gathering the balls together.

Learn 1/4 and 3/4 angles as above. The interesting thing is the cue ball deflection angles are the same.

Learn to play with check side along the cushions. It sucks the ball into the pocket and you can force an in-off from nearly anywhere.

Boro Nut

Thanks, it will be nice have a little bit more direction when I get to snooker/billiards on saturday.

When i was practicing the long in off I was playing to bring the yellow next to the red, for a cannon. However Riso Levi suggests in his writings that you play to bring the yellow in position for another in off in to the side pocket.

Which one should I be doing? Or are both of them correct.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I bought Riso Levi's "Billiards in the Twentieth Century" which is an excellent book. However it seems to be more anecdotal than instructional, although there is a bit of that.

Actually, I was sort of kidding. A complete set of his books (from 1900 to 1935 or so) would be about $1200, and he often carries on for too long about not much. And there are his occasional factual errors. Shamos has said that Levi holds the record for the largest number of words written by one person about cue sports. I think the book you have is available as an on-demand reprint.

 

[Cameron Smith]

Actually, I was sort of kidding. A complete set of his books (from 1900 to 1935 or so) would be about $1200, and he often carries on for too long about not much. And there are his occasional factual errors. Shamos has said that Levi holds the record for the largest number of words written by one person about cue sports. I think the book you have is available as an on-demand reprint.

I actually bought the book a couple of weeks ago, which is what got me interested again in English Billiards.

I acquired it from Chapters up in Ottawa, and I was shocked that they had it in stock as there are very few people around here who actually know what English Billiards are. They probably saw the word billiards in the title and figured it to be about pool.

It is an enjoyable read, although I have regarded it more with historical fascination than anything in regards to the fundamentals of the game. But the sections involving strategy and position play have been helpful thus far.

 

[vagabond]

Thanks, it will be nice have a little bit more direction when I get to snooker/billiards on saturday.

When i was practicing the long in off I was playing to bring the yellow next to the red, for a cannon. However Riso Levi suggests in his writings that you play to bring the yellow in position for another in off in to the side pocket.

Which one should I be doing? Or are both of them correct.

I ain`t no Billiard player.But I thought in off to the side pocket has high percentage than a cannon

 

[Cameron Smith]

I ain`t no Billiard player.But I thought in off to the side pocket has high percentage than a cannon

Normally yes, but in this case I am bringing the yellow within an inch of the red. I always had an easy next shot.

 

[Boro Nut]

When i was practicing the long in off I was playing to bring the yellow next to the red, for a cannon. However Riso Levi suggests in his writings that you play to bring the yellow in position for another in off in to the side pocket.

Which one should I be doing? Or are both of them correct.

Well the choice is up to you, but if you play for the cannon you necessarilly need to set up at the cue ball at the natural half ball angle and let the white slow roll to the corner pocket. Rolling slowly can wander off on the nap, and you need to be more accurate with pace on the object ball or risk covering the red and making the cannon more difficult. Forcing it into the corner with top gives you a lot more margin of error with postion of the object ball IMO.

If you set up the in-off wider and play half ball with plenty of top to bend it in, the pace will necessarily bring the other white around the angles for the in-off in the middle. Try setting the cue ball touching an imaginary ball spotted on the end spot and adjust form there. You'll soon find your own sweet spot (it varies with table and balls). Then all you need to do is fix it in your memory and you've got a cast iron certainty of a score every time the balls are respotted after a foul. Then you can milk as many points as you can off it bringing it up and down for in-offs into the same pocket. If you lose position you've always got the long jenny or drop cannon to fall back to.

Boro Nut