i'm a pro..so pro that my opponents just give me the game..i don't even have to unscrew my cue n i win..guess ppl don't really like to play w me cos i'm too lousy 
i wish i were a pro!
i wish i were a pro!
Are you Pro, or Anti a Rating, or Handicap System in Local Tournments
- Thread starter PoolSleuth
- Start date
Here where I live I would favor the handicap but the race is too short and i can really understand where the better players complain. In a race to three they give every below A a game on the wire in a race to three. To me that allows for funny rolls to go the way of the weak player.
A point was also made to me by one of the better players. "When i started playing there was no handicap and I had learn to win and have someone give me weight in a tourny." I kinda agreed with that.
A point was also made to me by one of the better players. "When i started playing there was no handicap and I had learn to win and have someone give me weight in a tourny." I kinda agreed with that.
Playing with Handicap's will not a champion make!
Handicapped or not, if your opponent is sitting he's not going to win.
I play in both handicapped and non-handicapped tournaments and in order to win I have to play good pool.
I play in both handicapped and non-handicapped tournaments and in order to win I have to play good pool.
Handicapped tournaemnts
The benefits are quite a few, but the drawbacks are also many.
A lot of whether it is fair to everyone depends:
1) If the tournament director is a real good player themselves (and has played for money quite a bit) or a beginner.
2) If the tournament director knows what is bullshit and what isn't. See number 4.
3) That most players are 5's and above on a regular basis, or just
a beginning banger that wants to have fun.
4) That when considering handicaps, any 5 and above, as compared to others, should be considered as THEY WOULD PLAY FOR MONEY, a money rating per se. Although some players may have the same handicap in a few tournaments along the way, one of players may have to give the other the 7 ball when they play for money, thus the 2nd player should be rated lower in handicap, and vica versa. I have played numberous players in tournaments with the same handicap that would demand the 7 or 8 for money, and in turn, I have had to play other players better that were rated the same as me in tournaments. This is one of the main reasons why a knowledgeable tournament director is needed.
5) Tournament directors that think if they pay 4-5-6th for a local tournament, more players will play, while at the same time, reducing 1st down to where it doesn't pay well. Anything less than $80 for a local tournament 1st place is debatable in my mind, $100 and over I consider a good tournament. (if the expenses are not too great). The big 1st place money is the best draw, not the 4th place money.
6) Having local tournaments on a weekly basis where the handicaps exceed 6 takes too long, especially if a lot of upper handicaps are playing, cost too much money. If I have to spend $50 TOTAL for a chance to win a $100, it is debatable to me, but if I have to spend $25-30 to win a $100, it is a go. (considering entry, quarters, soda, and maybe a cheap meal)
(and considering that I can go find a $50 or $100 a set game, and win a set in 45 minutes).
The benefits are quite a few, but the drawbacks are also many.
A lot of whether it is fair to everyone depends:
1) If the tournament director is a real good player themselves (and has played for money quite a bit) or a beginner.
2) If the tournament director knows what is bullshit and what isn't. See number 4.
3) That most players are 5's and above on a regular basis, or just
a beginning banger that wants to have fun.
4) That when considering handicaps, any 5 and above, as compared to others, should be considered as THEY WOULD PLAY FOR MONEY, a money rating per se. Although some players may have the same handicap in a few tournaments along the way, one of players may have to give the other the 7 ball when they play for money, thus the 2nd player should be rated lower in handicap, and vica versa. I have played numberous players in tournaments with the same handicap that would demand the 7 or 8 for money, and in turn, I have had to play other players better that were rated the same as me in tournaments. This is one of the main reasons why a knowledgeable tournament director is needed.
5) Tournament directors that think if they pay 4-5-6th for a local tournament, more players will play, while at the same time, reducing 1st down to where it doesn't pay well. Anything less than $80 for a local tournament 1st place is debatable in my mind, $100 and over I consider a good tournament. (if the expenses are not too great). The big 1st place money is the best draw, not the 4th place money.
6) Having local tournaments on a weekly basis where the handicaps exceed 6 takes too long, especially if a lot of upper handicaps are playing, cost too much money. If I have to spend $50 TOTAL for a chance to win a $100, it is debatable to me, but if I have to spend $25-30 to win a $100, it is a go. (considering entry, quarters, soda, and maybe a cheap meal)
(and considering that I can go find a $50 or $100 a set game, and win a set in 45 minutes).
Now everyone just think for a minute about the last time they were in there home pool room (or any other one for that matter) and tell me when was the last time they had the chance to play even anything. If it was not for the giving or getting of weight there would be no action, ever!! The handicapping may have no place in an open tournament but without it there would be no action. And I would have to guess that the smaller local tournaments would do a lot better with a handicapping system of some kind.
Joe
Joe
supergreenman said:
Very good point! I find I sometimes have to work harder to win a handicap tournament than an open non-handicap event. When you are giving up the world in a match, you better be on top of your game!
Both have their place...but for the local weekly tournaments, handicapping is the only way to keep participation up.
Steve
A pool hall should have a handicapped tournament and an A or open style tournament. You'll find that the ones that do, often have the same players playing in both. The lower skilled players get into the money and have a chance in the handicapped tournament which keeps them interested and into it. Usually, the higher level players still do win handicapped tournaments because pool is about more than just shotmaking and position or physical skill, match time experience plays a huge part - and most (not all), but most handicapping systems do not reflect the "knowledge" part of the game.
Despite that, the lower guys will take their shot in the A level unhandicapped tournament because they like to, some do it because they want to see how they rank up evenly, and others want to get a chance to win even up for pride factor.
It's when there's no avenue or option for lower players to experience tournament play without getting run-out and slaughtered all the time that they quickly begin to let go of tournaments and they take their game in a different direction. Either go back to being ball bangers, or just playing the same few people over and over who they match up with. It get's old to get pounded at the table. You learn nothing from sitting down. People can say just practice more until you can compete at that level. That isn't really possible, as it is tournament play and match ups that play a huge role in development. Players need to play people better than them to grow their games, but not so outrageously better that they are reduced to becoming a professional racker.
Despite that, the lower guys will take their shot in the A level unhandicapped tournament because they like to, some do it because they want to see how they rank up evenly, and others want to get a chance to win even up for pride factor.
It's when there's no avenue or option for lower players to experience tournament play without getting run-out and slaughtered all the time that they quickly begin to let go of tournaments and they take their game in a different direction. Either go back to being ball bangers, or just playing the same few people over and over who they match up with. It get's old to get pounded at the table. You learn nothing from sitting down. People can say just practice more until you can compete at that level. That isn't really possible, as it is tournament play and match ups that play a huge role in development. Players need to play people better than them to grow their games, but not so outrageously better that they are reduced to becoming a professional racker.
I had this discussion tonight about tournaments, with the owner of the pool hall i goto.
And basically it came down to that in our area when you advertise any non-handicap tournament over 10$ even if its a D/C tournament you might get 16-20 people, most who are atleast a B level player. Because most true D/C players get scared away thinking they have no chance of winning. And nobody polices the tournaments to make sure only D/C players are in the tournament.
We have a 5$ tournament on Thursday that is suppose to be for D/C players, and Fridays is a Open 13$ tournament. But nobody shows up for the Friday tournament, and so the guys who normally play on Friday, end up playing on Thursday and always end up in the top 5.
And of course the guys who always end up in the $$ for the Thursday tourny complain to no end about being banned and having to go against better players in the Friday tourny. Because they want the easy $$$.
Now on the flip side, even with a handicap tournament, the people who end up winning are the ones who have a handicap over 6, because they are better over all with shot making and playing safe. We have a one guy who even though he is rated a 11, still ends up in first or second place everytime he plays.
Even he will complain about the handicap system that is used because he might end up playing someone who is a 4, but plays like a 6 or 7, but has never ended up in the cash, so they've never been moved up.
So over all its a never ending complaining battle.
Which is why I told the owner, that she needs to put her foot down about guys who should be playing in the Open tournament, but end up in the D/C tournament.
But like she said, well its only 5$, which i said true, but what happens when people stop showing up because they have no chance of ever getting in the $ because of certain people showing up to play, when they shouldnt be allowed in.
Yes it may only be 5$, but the tournament is for people of a certain skill level so they have a equal chance to win. Not to let in better players so, they have a easier time to win, and give the lesser players no chance at all of winning.
And basically it came down to that in our area when you advertise any non-handicap tournament over 10$ even if its a D/C tournament you might get 16-20 people, most who are atleast a B level player. Because most true D/C players get scared away thinking they have no chance of winning. And nobody polices the tournaments to make sure only D/C players are in the tournament.
We have a 5$ tournament on Thursday that is suppose to be for D/C players, and Fridays is a Open 13$ tournament. But nobody shows up for the Friday tournament, and so the guys who normally play on Friday, end up playing on Thursday and always end up in the top 5.
And of course the guys who always end up in the $$ for the Thursday tourny complain to no end about being banned and having to go against better players in the Friday tourny. Because they want the easy $$$.
Now on the flip side, even with a handicap tournament, the people who end up winning are the ones who have a handicap over 6, because they are better over all with shot making and playing safe. We have a one guy who even though he is rated a 11, still ends up in first or second place everytime he plays.
Even he will complain about the handicap system that is used because he might end up playing someone who is a 4, but plays like a 6 or 7, but has never ended up in the cash, so they've never been moved up.
So over all its a never ending complaining battle.
Which is why I told the owner, that she needs to put her foot down about guys who should be playing in the Open tournament, but end up in the D/C tournament.
But like she said, well its only 5$, which i said true, but what happens when people stop showing up because they have no chance of ever getting in the $ because of certain people showing up to play, when they shouldnt be allowed in.
Yes it may only be 5$, but the tournament is for people of a certain skill level so they have a equal chance to win. Not to let in better players so, they have a easier time to win, and give the lesser players no chance at all of winning.
StormHotRod300 said:
I guess I have been lucky. I have played handicapped tournaments with Max Eberle, Tom Vanover (Extremely strong local player), Joe Cataldi (very strong local player) and bunch of other great (in the scheme of things) local players and I have never heard them complain. Max spotted me the 7and 2 on the wire to 7. When I won he just said great game, went and meditated and came back and won the tournament...lol. The other two I mentioned just kicked my but with the spot. But I never heard any of them complain about spotting lesser players. They just kicked ass.
However, there were many times when the "better" players did not win because of the spot. I never heard any of them complain after the tournament that the spots were not fair.