Arguing with experts

Still want to shoot

Still want to shoot

Well-known member
I have read a decent amount of threads since i have joined these forums. And I find it funny as hell seeing people argue with cue builders when they do not know what they are talking about. Maybe it is just a matter of the way you word things, or maybe people are that full of themselves. I think it would be easier and more conducive to ask questions, listen and have a discussion. Certainly not as entertaining for me. lol. But I am sure it is not as much fun for the cue builders.

Our company does consulting and teaches classes worldwide as well as selling products to support our consulting.
One of the hardest lessens i had to learn was the phrase " i do not know, but i will find out" And be honest with the customer.
Oh, and i am not a pool cue expert either. Our business is wastewater.
I just felt like sharing. It is entertaining. and that is what we are here for right?
Dan
 
Still want to shoot said:
I have read a decent amount of threads since i have joined these forums. And I find it funny as hell seeing people argue with cue builders when they do not know what they are talking about. Maybe it is just a matter of the way you word things, or maybe people are that full of themselves. I think it would be easier and more conducive to ask questions, listen and have a discussion. Certainly not as entertaining for me. lol. But I am sure it is not as much fun for the cue builders.

Our company does consulting and teaches classes worldwide as well as selling products to support our consulting.
One of the hardest lessens i had to learn was the phrase " i do not know, but i will find out" And be honest with the customer.
Oh, and i am not a pool cue expert either. Our business is wastewater.
I just felt like sharing. It is entertaining. and that is what we are here for right?
Dan
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I met a couple wastewater chaps earlier this year at a golf outing. They knew a lot about a lot! Nice guys both from Texas.
 
As gross as it is. The related topic has the biggest convention in the world i believe. I don't think people know about it because its all business related. It is combined wastewater/freshwater.
Actually fun conventions. Suprising how many companies i wouldnt expect to be there. Like Mitsubishi, i think they make large scale generators.
 
Internet age. Everyone is an expert.

Our clients think they are experts too.

As for cue building I ask questions so I can learn more about cue making. Besides aesthetics I let the cue maker make their cue. I let them know my preferences but that’s about it.

If you customize a cue too much them all the talks about how a maker’s cue hits and plays no longer applies to you.
 
I've hit balls with a couple expensive cues and a few more lesser models from known makers and I still go by looks.

The change from butt to shaft is usually too abrupt. Notice, sale pictures tend to show the cue and shafts side by side. Now the all white shaft makes a uniform contrast to the butt detail. Assemble the cues and you may have a buncha busywork with the white thing sticking way out in front. Usually waaayy to pricey regardless.
 
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This is why the pro’s who used to frequent This forum eventually left. They would try to post information to help people or show them how they do things and of course the usual basements champions would argue with them and belittle them until they said f it and disappeared. Welcome to az billiards..
 
Short attention spans, lackluster reading comprehension, and ego are three of the main culprits to this. If it makes you feel any better it's prevalent in the vast majority of online forums.
  1. Many people get all the information they "need" from a single sentence or headline.
  2. When folks do take the time to actually read the entire post, they often times don't fully understand the post as a whole. This results in picking and choosing phrases and sentences from the post that bring forth the most emotion to them.
  3. People who continuously argue with experts typically lack the ability to accept they don't know everything and/or they could have bad information. This prevents them from shutting the hell up and just listening.
I'm sure I've done it to some extent at some point, particularly back when I used to drink on the regs. But I quit drinking and now I try to always remember the line, "You learn a lot more by listening than you do by talking."
 
When it comes to expertise, the problem is separating the wheat from the chaff. I've dealt with enough clueless "experts" in my life that I now maintain a healthy level of skepticism when engaging with them. The trick is not having so much skepticism that you dismiss actual worthy experts when you encounter them. This middle road doesn't seem to have much traffic on it on here or anywhere else for that matter.
 
BasementDweller said:
When it comes to expertise, the problem is separating the wheat from the chaff. I've dealt with enough clueless "experts" in my life that I now maintain a healthy level of skepticism when engaging with them. The trick is not having so much skepticism that you dismiss actual worthy experts when you encounter them. This middle road doesn't seem to have much traffic on it on here or anywhere else for that matter.
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Excellent post, IMO….there are lots of experts, in any field, that you can’t give carte blanche to. You will be taken advantage of.
its important to have an open mind and prepare to be enlightened….but I WILL argue.
 
Still want to shoot said:
I have read a decent amount of threads since i have joined these forums. And I find it funny as hell seeing people argue with cue builders when they do not know what they are talking about. Maybe it is just a matter of the way you word things, or maybe people are that full of themselves. I think it would be easier and more conducive to ask questions, listen and have a discussion. Certainly not as entertaining for me. lol. But I am sure it is not as much fun for the cue builders.

Our company does consulting and teaches classes worldwide as well as selling products to support our consulting.
One of the hardest lessens i had to learn was the phrase " i do not know, but i will find out" And be honest with the customer.
Oh, and i am not a pool cue expert either. Our business is wastewater.
I just felt like sharing. It is entertaining. and that is what we are here for right?
Dan
Click to expand...
At AZ, there are times when advice is given and received well. However, there are also instances where instructors, including myself, offer suggestions like, "Do X, and your topspin will improve significantly within a few shots." Despite this, some individuals complain, whine, or object without even attempting to follow the advice for just a few shots.

This reflects the nature of online forums—some participants are constructive and positive, while others can be more challenging.
 
Still want to shoot said:
I have read a decent amount of threads since i have joined these forums. And I find it funny as hell seeing people argue with cue builders when they do not know what they are talking about. Maybe it is just a matter of the way you word things, or maybe people are that full of themselves. I think it would be easier and more conducive to ask questions, listen and have a discussion. Certainly not as entertaining for me. lol. But I am sure it is not as much fun for the cue builders.

Our company does consulting and teaches classes worldwide as well as selling products to support our consulting.
One of the hardest lessens i had to learn was the phrase " i do not know, but i will find out" And be honest with the customer.
Oh, and i am not a pool cue expert either. Our business is wastewater.
I just felt like sharing. It is entertaining. and that is what we are here for right?
Dan
Click to expand...

The Dunning Kruger Effect is scary and pool has plenty of shining examples of "limited competence"
 
BasementDweller said:
When it comes to expertise, the problem is separating the wheat from the chaff. I've dealt with enough clueless "experts" in my life that I now maintain a healthy level of skepticism when engaging with them. The trick is not having so much skepticism that you dismiss actual worthy experts when you encounter them. This middle road doesn't seem to have much traffic on it on here or anywhere else for that matter.
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I don't question the know how of cue craftsmen. I do know ugly when I see it.
 
I always marvel at folks who say they don't know and are seeking to know, but, when presented with what seem to be perfectly plausible facts, will reject apparent truth without even examining the basis of what is being proposed.

It is one thing for such to occur over things like cues and baseball, but some idiots will argue with doctors and lawyers when life and death or long prison stretches are implicated. (I am not saying doctors and lawyers are infallible because they are not.) It just seems that there is a type of idiot who apparently believed his mother, lock, stock, and barrel, when she told him over and over how wonderfully smart he was.

This is also not to say that formal education and a wall full of impressive diplomas and certificates are a guarantee of real knowledge. I have learned, sometimes the hard way, that while I did know a lot about some things, there was a whole lot that I knew little about and that I did not know everything about some subjects with which I was very familiar. Ultimately, it behooves us all to keep our minds open and consider what everyone has to offer until they prove themselves unreliable. Most idiots simply cannot hide their real nature for very long. All this being said, a good bs detector is probably the most valuable tool one can possess in aid of one's acquisition of knowledge.
 
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Biloxi Boy said:
I always marvel at folks who say they don't know and are seeking to know, but, when presented with whats seems to be perfectly plausible facts, will reject apparent truth without even examining what is proposed.

It is one thing for such to occur over things like cues and baseball, but some idiots will argue with doctors and lawyers when life and death or long prison stretches are implicated. (I am not saying doctors and lawyers are infallible because they are not.) It just seems that there is a type of idiot who believed his mother when she kept telling him how smart he is.

This is also not to say that formal education and a wall full of impressive diplomas and certificates are a guarantee of real knowledge. I have learned, sometimes the hard way, that while I did know a lot about some things, there was a whole lot that I knew little about and that I did not know everything about subjects with which I was very familiar. Ultimately, it behooves us all to keep our minds open and consider what everyone has to offer until they prove themselves unreliable. Most idiots cannot hide their real nature for very long. All this being said, a good bs detector is probably the most valuable tool one can possess in aid of one's acquisition of knowledge.
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To relate it to pool….its the race to 3 scenario.
 
Still want to shoot said:
I have read a decent amount of threads since i have joined these forums. And I find it funny as hell seeing people argue with cue builders when they do not know what they are talking about. Maybe it is just a matter of the way you word things, or maybe people are that full of themselves. I think it would be easier and more conducive to ask questions, listen and have a discussion. Certainly not as entertaining for me. lol. But I am sure it is not as much fun for the cue builders.

Our company does consulting and teaches classes worldwide as well as selling products to support our consulting.
One of the hardest lessens i had to learn was the phrase " i do not know, but i will find out" And be honest with the customer.
Oh, and i am not a pool cue expert either. Our business is wastewater.
I just felt like sharing. It is entertaining. and that is what we are here for right?
Dan
Click to expand...
You think the Cue Maker's section is entertaining, dip your toe in the waters of the Table Mechanic's section.
 
Biloxi Boy said:
I always marvel at folks who say they don't know and are seeking to know, but, when presented with whats seems to be perfectly plausible facts, will reject apparent truth without even examining what is proposed.

It is one thing for such to occur over things like cues and baseball, but some idiots will argue with doctors and lawyers when life and death or long prison stretches are implicated. (I am not saying doctors and lawyers are infallible because they are not.) It just seems that there is a type of idiot who believed his mother when she kept telling him how smart he is.

This is also not to say that formal education and a wall full of impressive diplomas and certificates are a guarantee of real knowledge. I have learned, sometimes the hard way, that while I did know a lot about some things, there was a whole lot that I knew little about and that I did not know everything about subjects with which I was very familiar. Ultimately, it behooves us all to keep our minds open and consider what everyone has to offer until they prove themselves unreliable. Most idiots cannot hide their real nature for very long. All this being said, a good bs detector is probably the most valuable tool one can possess in aid of one's acquisition of knowledge.
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Yeah... Doctors.... Not a fan.

My father got dizzy and fell a few years ago, definitely not an expected issue, never had signs of it in the past and only one incident since.

My brother called me when he was in the ER. I asked what he'd had for dinner. The doctor never asked. Apparently he'd had beets and red wine with his meal. Dad doesn't get drunk, so it was two glasses at most. I told my brother to ask the doctor about the blood pressure effects of beets and red wine because of read that they both reduce BP and Dad is on meds. The doctor rolled his eyes, but to his credit he did some research and agreed that they were likely contributing factors.

The only other incident Dad has had again involved red wine. Two was enough for him

That is basically my experience with doctors. They don't seem to dig. Same as when I was having problems when I was 19 and it took a lab tech screaming at the doctors before they did any further investigating and found holes in my small intestine.

So... Keep in mind this is a forum with no verification of expertise. There is a lot of good info, but it should be mostly used for amusement. There are jerks (I'm guilty, probably too often), there are trolls, and there are simple misunderstandings.
 
I am constantly comparing AZB personalities and communication with what I used to observe in pool halls. I am particularly curious how it is that certain idiots (I believe "trolls" is the current parlance) are able to remain here while they did not last long at all in the old places. Is it anonymity? Unavailability of physical violence? The quality of scorn that can be delivered in either? Surely we have a social scientist among us who can speak to this phenomena with an amount of authority.
 
ideologist said:
The Dunning Kruger Effect is scary and pool has plenty of shining examples of "limited competence"
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Amen. It's pretty apparent that a lot of the folks who like to argue with experts either lack the ability to be or have never been humbled.

I remember when I first started playing semi seriously at a pool room. I knew I loved the game and played better than my friends in college who only played recreationally. Then I saw these guys play at the pool hall. Man, they played so much better than me. Fast forward a couple of years and I'd caught up to them and thought I played pretty good. That's about the time I discovered Accu-Stats videos. Holy hell... The guys in those videos took the game to a level that I had no idea existed. To top it off, you could take the pretty much any "no-name" from any of those videos and he'd be 100 times better than anyone I'd ever seen in person. That was one of the many times I've thought I had a pretty good grasp on things only to have the entirety of my perception shattered before my eyes.
 
Biloxi Boy said:
I am constantly comparing AZB personalities and communication with what I used to observe in pool halls. I am particularly curious how it is that certain idiots (I believe "trolls" is the current parlance) are able to remain here while they did not last long at all in the old places. Is it anonymity? Unavailability of physical violence? The quality of scorn that can be delivered in either? Surely we have a social scientist among us who can speak to this phenomena with an amount of authority.
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"Is it anonymity? Unavailability of physical violence? The quality of scorn that can be delivered in either?" I'm no scientist, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that these three things account for the majority of it.
 
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