Arizona Ratings Convertions to ABC System Discrepencies - Opinions Wanted

BRKNRUN said:
No...I think you mis read...or I have really lousy communication skills

I think there should be

  • 3 A Levels (A+, A, A-)
  • 2 B Levels (B+ B-)
  • 1 C Level
  • Perhaps 1 D Level

The conversions are below...(Shortstop would fall in the 10-1 = A = Pro Capable Catagory)

10-2 = A+ = Pro player
10-1 = A = Pro capable
10 = A- = Open
9 = B+ = No Mans Land
8 = B- = Rank Ameature
7 = C = Ameature
6 = C = Ameature capable
Click to expand...

Ken I think you are forgetting the 4's, and 5's in the current system.


Personally I think the Current Systems FLAW is many people do not understand it going from 4 to 10-2, and if it went from say 1-9 it would be EASY to understand, or 0-8.
 
BRKNRUN said:
No...I think you mis read...or I have really lousy communication skills

I think there should be

  • 3 A Levels (A+, A, A-)
  • 2 B Levels (B+ B-)
  • 1 C Level
  • Perhaps 1 D Level

The conversions are below...(Shortstop would fall in the 10-1 = A = Pro Capable Catagory)

10-2 = A+ = Pro player
10-1 = A = Pro capable
10 = A- = Open
9 = B+ = No Mans Land
8 = B- = Rank Ameature
7 = C = Ameature
6 = C = Ameature capable
Click to expand...



NOTE: I use the words No Mans Land for a 9 rated player becuase it is much nicer than the alternative as it was described to me by Jimmy

He said...(years ago)......"A 9 rated player in Phoenix is a above average player....That same 9 rated player in San Diego is just an average player...That same 9 rated player in Hard Times Bellflower is "A Sucker" :)
 
BigCat said:
Hello All,

I am starting this thread to get some opinions. Recently, Roger Long, a BCA instructor and player here in the state of Arizona started a website that provides general information about pool in Arizona. Among some of the items on his website, he includes his opinion on what the Arizona ratings for players translates to in the ABC system.

http://www.arizbilliardsdirectory.com/conversions.html

I guess I am looking for feedback becasue I feel his ratings conversions are incorrect and have discrepencies. My biggest issue would be with the ABC system that he proposes. He suggests:


10-2 (A+) Top professional. World class player. Capable of winning major professional tournaments. Almost always finishes in the money in any tournament entered.
10-1 (A) Professional, or player possessing professional skills. Capable of winning local open tournaments. Usually finishes in the money in regional tournaments.
10 (A-) Semi-pro, or player possessing professional skills. Capable of winning or placing high in the money in local open tournaments.
9 (B+) Advanced. Very good position play, strategy and consistency. Top league player. Consistent competitor in local open tournaments.
8 (B) Advanced. Good position play, strategy and consistency. Good league player. Competitive in local open tournaments.
7 (B-) Intermediate. Fair amount of knowledge and experience, but inconsistent in execution. Average league player.
6 (C+) Intermediate. Has learned quite a few shots, but has a lot to learn about position play and strategy. Inconsistent.
5 (C) Novice. Has a grasp of the fundamentals, but does not know much about the physics of the game. Lower-level league player.
4 (C-) Novice. Very basic knowledge of the fundamentals. Knows almost nothing about position play. Lowest-level tournament player.
3 (D+) Novice. Knows little about the fundamentals, but might know a couple of shots. Average social player.
2 (D) Novice. May not know anything about the fundamentals or making shots. Non-competitive.
1 (D-) Novice. Knows nothing about the game except maybe a few rules of play.

I personally believe that the ABC system does not stop at the "A" level. I have seen many systems and the one that I best agree with is the system that incorporates levels above "A". Joe Tucker has such a rating system for his 10 ball test and it is something along these lines:

Pro
ShortStop
Open
A
B
C
D
Novice

To me, this seems to make more sense. Of course, I do realize that most rating systems are very subjective. But I was just hoping to get some feedback from the players in Arizona as well as other players from around the country on this issue. I really hope Joe Tucker reads this thread and chimes in as well.

If I were to categorize it and translate it to the Arizona ratings system, I would use something similar to this (I don't believe there are hard cut off lines for each of the ratings):

Pro_______= 10-2's and above
ShortStop_= low 10-2's and high/mid 10-1's
Open_____= low 10-1's and high/mid 10's
A________= low 10's
B________= 9's and high 8's
C________= mid/low 8's to mid 7's
D________= low 7's to high 5's
Novice____= 4's and 5's

Any thoughts or opinons? Any type of feedback is welcome.

Ray

Edit: Yes, I know I misspelled Conversions in the thread title :)
Click to expand...


I believe he has all the speeds pretty well spelt out. He just called the top players A+ instead of pro. What this sytem does it turn a lot of current players who consider themselve A's into B's. They play the same they did a day ago but they just have a different label not skill level. In the end, as long as he adminsters the rankings fairly it doesn't much matter what you are labeled it is how you perform IMO.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Ken I think you are forgetting the 4's, and 5's in the current system.


Personally I think the Current Systems FLAW is many people do not understand it going from 4 to 10-2, and if it went from say 1-9 it would be EASY to understand, or 0-8.
Click to expand...


No I did not forget them at all...Go back and re-read my initial post...#15

specifically look for the following words

BRKNRUN said:
This is probablywhere I would stop but just for the heck of it if you wanted to add and additional level

Either 6 or 5 and under = D = Novice

I just think it is much easier for a 6 to play like a 7 (or even 8) than it is for a 10 to go to 10-1 (much less 10-2) on a givin night..
Click to expand...
 
BRKNRUN said:
NOTE: I use the words No Mans Land for a 9 rated player becuase it is much nicer than the alternative as it was described to me by Jimmy

He said...(years ago)......"A 9 rated player in Phoenix is a above average player....That same 9 rated player in San Diego is just an average player...That same 9 rated player in Hard Times Bellflower is "A Sucker" :)
Click to expand...

Did I say that? That sounds like a Dan Wallace quote. I know nothing about the San Diego pool scene, nor have I ever spent any time there. :)

However, I will say that I believe that the current ratings are even less accurate than they were 10 years ago or so. I've said, over and over, why I believe that to be the case, so I won't bother reiterating here. As far as what the ratings translate to, who knows? Roger's translation is probably a good description of what it *should* look like, but I'm not sure how accurately it really describes current ratings.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
So you are not talking from personal experence on what your own eye say when I play at Kolby's.
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How can I see you play when you NEVER go play anywhere or let me know where you are going to go play. I have asked you many time where you play. For some reason you keep it all a secret. You told me to ask around to see how you play and I did. Now that I have done that you try and discredit it. When is the last time you have been to Kolby's? I trust the poeple I have asked and they wouldn't lie to me - they have no reason to. Besides the fact they said you were weird they said you suck as well. The most common answer was you are rated a 6 and probably shouldn't even be that. Just as I had suspected.

If you want to discuss this further start another pointless thread or send me a PM or meet me somewhere and we can PLAY so I can see with my own eyes. This crap doesn't belong in this thread.

BVal
 
Jimmy M. said:
Did I say that? That sounds like a Dan Wallace quote. I know nothing about the San Diego pool scene, nor have I ever spent any time there. :)

However, I will say that I believe that the current ratings are even less accurate than they were 10 years ago or so. I've said, over and over, why I believe that to be the case, so I won't bother reiterating here. As far as what the ratings translate to, who knows? Roger's translation is probably a good description of what it *should* look like, but I'm not sure how accurately it really describes current ratings.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm... I would think you a bit young yet, but you might want to check this link out......just in case...:wink:

https://www.enroll.alzcombocare.com/alzcombocare/fonam_web_enr_form.do?s_cid=1000
 
Arizona Ratings

I think like all rating systems, the one we have here in Arizona has it's flaws. I like the way you got it laid out Ray and Ken. I am rated an 8 which aint bad since I had not hit a ball for more than 6 years. I have played some 8's that I could give the 7 too and I have played a few 8's that have put 3 and 4 packs on me from the coin flip. Just last Sunday I played a 7 that was probably the toughest player in the room at the time and the room was full of 8's. He was playing lock down safes and running out from everywhere. I have played some 9's and 10's and I was not impressed but my point is that if you add in + and - to the mix it becomes a little more accurate because there can be huge differences between 2 players rated the same speed. I say screw the rating all together and then there will be nothing to complain about. We can all just make all tournaments open tournaments and leave the rating and handicaps to the league matches.
 
I have expressed on here a few times that I have the answer to the rating system woes that many of you have mentioned (be it for this system or any other). It's highly accurate, produces fascinating information and could be used very effectively to standardize the differences in any other rating system. Plus it has a number of other benefits as well. I'm not trying to sound like I'm promising more than I can deliver. I'm just trying to relay the benefits.

The one drawback is that it requires collecting some simple stats, which alot of times people aren't willing to do. Overall, it's a small price for the big benefits that my rating system provides.

There are things that I can do to make it even better than it currently is, and I'm in the process of working on it. I'm looking for someone with the right business mind, then we could generate capital and produce something that could be potentially used throughout the country and it could be amazing!

Can I guarantee it? Probably not. Do I believe it has a high probability for success and making a big difference for all of pool? Emphatic Yes.

Scam artists need not apply.... Been there, done that...

Note: Not putting down the Arizona Rating System. For a system that doesn't use any major stats, it is highly effective. Yes the Arizona Rating System has its pluses and minuses. Just saying, that in order to upgrade to something better, it's going to come with a cost. In my opinion many wouldn't be willing to pay that cost. But that drawback can be negated if my ideas could be implemented to its fullest.

Plodding along at my own pace,
Looking for ways for speedier implementation...

Oh... Btw... Roger has seen the system and supports my belief in its accuracy and its value. But, like I said, I'm still plodding along at my own pace.

Sorry, if this sounds like a sales pitch in the wrong place... ;)
 
BigCat said:
I don't know if anyone will take Bobby up on that (does he post on here). He is a bit of a headache to play (there are a lot of things that one would have to put up with in order to play him). I agree he is a very good player and a very good ball pocketer. However, I do not think that Bobby has the mental game and the correct attitude to play at a 10-1 speed. I know many that would agree with me on this issue, they just may not say it publicly. Not knocking Bobby, just telling it like it is. No offense to Bobby meant... he is very talented. He probably shoots better than I do.

As for ball weight tournaments vs. game weight tournaments. I personally don't like either of them. I think all tournaments should be of equal races. But I'm probably in the minority on this issue :wink: .

Ray
Click to expand...
bobby has me all day long, (8 ball, 10 ball, banks) or (8 ball, 10 ball, straight pool)

Dennis
 
Prince said:
bobby has me all day long, (8 ball, 10 ball, banks) or (8 ball, 10 ball, straight pool)

Dennis
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I was waiting for you to jump in Dennis. I would love for this match to happen. BVal
 
berniep said:
Me too! 8 ball, 1H, 14.1.

Bernie.
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Hey Bernie. Between you and Dennis I think we just found our next two challenge matches. BVal
 
BVal said:
Hey Bernie. Between you and Dennis I think we just found our next two challenge matches. BVal
Click to expand...
i don't play one hole, nor do i play straight pool. I will make an exception to the straight pool game for bobby, not Bernie.

Let's do it Bernie! :)

8 ball, 10 ball or 9 ball, and banks.
 
Last edited:
Abc

I think if you go by ABC ratings you have to base it upon the %'s. From the ratings book 90% of the players are rated 7 or under. That leaves 10% for 8 and above. Top 10% is A....that leaves a lot of variance in an A tourney.

I like it the way it is, and will continue to until I am rated to where I don't feel that there is a chance of cashing in any event entered. Hopefully that doesn't happen, and when it does I'll either have to make pool my day job (won't happen), or quit entering tourneys.

td
 
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