Arizona Tournament Ideas?!?!?

[Drew]

I respecfully disagree. I don't think MOST realize what a huge disparity there is in the same rating. Speaking personally I know some 10's that I will gamble with and give the seven. On the other hand, I want weight from others.

I think the upper ratings are a bit broader because there are less of you guys. I am only a 7 and I have yet to meet a 7 or 8 that scares me. 9's and up, we'll be discussing weight. I also think that there should be a seperate rating for bar tables. Someone could play 7 speed on the big table and play 9 speed on the bar table. It's using your chess rating for checkers.

Back to the main topic. There won't be many high rated players showing up at the sets. The tables are too small, the pockets are too big, and there's not enough action in the room. So I don't think handicaps are the main issue. I think you just need to start the weekly tournament and adjust as you see fit. Any night is fine for a pool player so I'd do it on the best night for the bar.

 

[Drew]

BTW I'm looking forward to your next 500 added 8 and under tournament. Any word on when that's gonna happen?

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I think the upper ratings are a bit broader because there are less of you guys. I am only a 7 and I have yet to meet a 7 or 8 that scares me. 9's and up, we'll be discussing weight. I also think that there should be a seperate rating for bar tables. Someone could play 7 speed on the big table and play 9 speed on the bar table. It's using your chess rating for checkers.

That is a very good point about people playing at different level on Bar Boxes, verses Big Tables.






Also those who are charge with rating a new player initially are of shall I say different skill levels if you look at whom is allowed to give initial ratings.

It is a difficult task like judging Confirmation at a Dog Show, as each Judge has there own personal likes and dislikes likes say in the Breed Labrador Retrievers where you have Yellow, Black, and last but far from least Chocolate.

Some judges always seem to find a Black Lab to put up as Best of Breed in their ring.

Too bad giving a New Player an Initial Rating was not as simple as picking a winner in Grand Prix Show Jumping where the Horse that finishes to course of Jumps with the fewest faults, and the quickest time is always the clear winner, with no post event quibbling.













P.S. Yes I know the rating system is not going to go bye bye.

 

[stuckart]

Drew, you can bring your 8 rated players card with you (As of May 18th) to the next one to be held in June. I haven't finalized the dates yet, but I'll probably try and do it the same weekend as the Desert Classic Tour. ha ha. I'm just joking. No, I'm trying to plan around the Tour, the WBT and other local tourneys.

I'll post on here the second we nail down some dates! Thanks for the support.

 

[Ryan A.]

I think the upper ratings are a bit broader because there are less of you guys. I am only a 7 and I have yet to meet a 7 or 8 that scares me. 9's and up, we'll be discussing weight. I also think that there should be a seperate rating for bar tables. Someone could play 7 speed on the big table and play 9 speed on the bar table. It's using your chess rating for checkers.

Back to the main topic. There won't be many high rated players showing up at the sets. The tables are too small, the pockets are too big, and there's not enough action in the room. So I don't think handicaps are the main issue. I think you just need to start the weekly tournament and adjust as you see fit. Any night is fine for a pool player so I'd do it on the best night for the bar.

Good point! I don't see it as much with big table player playing on the box. But the other way is often a struggle for people. One hole I is see with the rating committee is the range of people voting on certain players. What I mean by that is it is very difficult for someone who shots 7 speed to determine what a 10 or 10-1 is. They get ran over by both. Only that player that is playing at that level can see that they are clearly better or lesser of a player. On the flip the better players have trouble determining the difference between a 6 or 7. All they know is that they win almost regardless of the weight. (they have to make the mistake)

This question isn't easily answered and I wish that I could contribut more but the fact remains that it is hard to match a strong player with a weak player and make it fair or attractive. Regardless of the handicap if a 10 plays a 6 he should win. Even if the 6 goes to 1 or 2. The ten is going to have to make the mistake, or get pooped in on. The best recomendation that I have heard is handicap the entry fee. The lesser player at least knows that they are getting a discount for the opportunity to pay their dues.

 

[BVal]

Good point! I don't see it as much with big table player playing on the box. But the other way is often a struggle for people. One hole I is see with the rating committee is the range of people voting on certain players. What I mean by that is it is very difficult for someone who shots 7 speed to determine what a 10 or 10-1 is. They get ran over by both. Only that player that is playing at that level can see that they are clearly better or lesser of a player. On the flip the better players have trouble determining the difference between a 6 or 7. All they know is that they win almost regardless of the weight. (they have to make the mistake)

This question isn't easily answered and I wish that I could contribut more but the fact remains that it is hard to match a strong player with a weak player and make it fair or attractive. Regardless of the handicap if a 10 plays a 6 he should win. Even if the 6 goes to 1 or 2. The ten is going to have to make the mistake, or get pooped in on. The best recomendation that I have heard is handicap the entry fee. The lesser player at least knows that they are getting a discount for the opportunity to pay their dues.

I would like to dedicate this reply to CocoboloCowboy

BVal

 

[Ryan A.]

That is a very good point about people playing at different level on Bar Boxes, verses Big Tables.






Also those who are charge with rating a new player initially are of shall I say different skill levels if you look at whom is allowed to give initial ratings.

It is a difficult task like judging Confirmation at a Dog Show, as each Judge has there own personal likes and dislikes likes say in the Breed Labrador Retrievers where you have Yellow, Black, and last but far from least Chocolate.

Some judges always seem to find a Black Lab to put up as Best of Breed in their ring.

Too bad giving a New Player an Initial Rating was not as simple as picking a winner in Grand Prix Show Jumping where the Horse that finishes to course of Jumps with the fewest faults, and the quickest time is always the clear winner, with no post event quibbling.













P.S. Yes I know the rating system is not going to go bye bye.

That is what I like about the USPPA rating system. Much better IMO. It is n't so subjective. Your number or rating is computed not judged. I know you were looking more for what can be tweaked in regards to tournment format, but IMO this would be the greatest thing for AZ pool scene.

In my experience playing in this system when you have a off day you have no chance. If you shot above your rating or number you will contend. Regardless of how high or low that number is. The system now doesnt' allow for this. A top player doesnt' have to play well if he is matched up against someone with a sucnificant skill level drop off.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

That is what I like about the USPPA rating system. Much better IMO. It is n't so subjective. Your number or rating is computed not judged. I know you were looking more for what can be tweaked in regards to tournment format, but IMO this would be the greatest thing for AZ pool scene.

In my experience playing in this system when you have a off day you have no chance. If you shot above your rating or number you will contend. Regardless of how high or low that number is. The system now doesnt' allow for this. A top player doesnt' have to play well if he is matched up against someone with a sucnificant skill level drop off.

Thank for the info on the USPPA rating system.

 

[Drew]

Drew, you can bring your 8 rated players card with you (As of May 18th) to the next one to be held in June. I haven't finalized the dates yet, but I'll probably try and do it the same weekend as the Desert Classic Tour. ha ha. I'm just joking. No, I'm trying to plan around the Tour, the WBT and other local tourneys.

I'll post on here the second we nail down some dates! Thanks for the support.

Damn I got bumped? Who's responsible for this? So I only have two more weeks to rob the 7 and under tournaments.

 

[stuckart]

Your play is responsible. But you know you've been atleast an 8 for sometime now. Get going on Robbing all you can in the next 2 weeks.

 

[stuckart]

Tournament Idea

Would you play?

Here are my initial thoughts on the tournament.

Open Handicap
$500 added with 32 players, $1000 added with 64, $2000 added with 128
Races to:
6's and 7's go to 7,
8's and 9's go to 8,
10's and 10(-1)'s go to 9,
10(-2)'s go to 10

Staggered Entry ($10 - 6's, $15 - 7's, $20 - 8's, $25 - 9's, $30 - 10's, $40 - 10-1's, $50 - 10-2's)

Sidepots $5/$10/$20
Sidepot $10 winner take all for 7's and below (highest finisher)
Sidepot $20 winner take all for 9's and below (highest finisher)
Sidepot $40 winner take all for everyone = WTA

Cost range (from no sidepots to all)
6's - $10 - $55(+$40WTA),
7's - $15 - $60(+$40WTA),
8's - $20 - $70(+$40WTA),
9's - $25 - $80(+$40WTA),
10's - $30 - $105,
10-1's - $40 - $115,
10-2's - $50 - $125

Payout 25% of the field.

This is the most fair that I could make it.
Benefit for Top players:
Longer Races, 10's only give 2 games to 6's and 7's (usually you'd be giving 3 or 4), 9's only give 1 game to 6's and 7's (usually 2 or 3). 8's and 9's play even, 10's and 10(-1)'s play even.

Benefit for Lower players:
Lower rated players can play higher rated players for cheap entry. Still get some weight, but not as much as before. Great competition with ability to improve game.

Prizes and giveaways from our sponsors. 2 & out and 3 & out door prize drawing. I've already secured sponsorship from Dos Equis, Heineken and Tecate for prizes, drinks, girls, etc.

Think it through and let me know if you'd play in this or not. Prize money could be fairly large!

 

[BRKNRUN]

Would you play?

Here are my initial thoughts on the tournament.

Open Handicap
$500 added with 32 players, $1000 added with 64, $2000 added with 128
Races to:
6's and 7's go to 7,
8's and 9's go to 8,
10's and 10(-1)'s go to 9,
10(-2)'s go to 10

Staggered Entry ($10 - 6's, $15 - 7's, $20 - 8's, $25 - 9's, $30 - 10's, $40 - 10-1's, $50 - 10-2's)

Sidepots $5/$10/$20
Sidepot $10 winner take all for 7's and below (highest finisher)
Sidepot $20 winner take all for 9's and below (highest finisher)
Sidepot $40 winner take all for everyone = WTA

Cost range (from no sidepots to all)
6's - $10 - $55(+$40WTA),
7's - $15 - $60(+$40WTA),
8's - $20 - $70(+$40WTA),
9's - $25 - $80(+$40WTA),
10's - $30 - $105,
10-1's - $40 - $115,
10-2's - $50 - $125

Payout 25% of the field.

This is the most fair that I could make it.
Benefit for Top players:
Longer Races, 10's only give 2 games to 6's and 7's (usually you'd be giving 3 or 4), 9's only give 1 game to 6's and 7's (usually 2 or 3). 8's and 9's play even, 10's and 10(-1)'s play even.

Benefit for Lower players:
Lower rated players can play higher rated players for cheap entry. Still get some weight, but not as much as before. Great competition with ability to improve game.

Prizes and giveaways from our sponsors. 2 & out and 3 & out door prize drawing. I've already secured sponsorship from Dos Equis, Heineken and Tecate for prizes, drinks, girls, etc.

Think it through and let me know if you'd play in this or not. Prize money could be fairly large!

I would play either way....but I would suggest

instead of a 7/8/9/10 race, make it a 6/7/8/9 race...save "some" time

 

[stuckart]

Thanks Ken. I only started at 7 to make it a little more inviting to the higher rated players.

But I could do it either way.

Anyone else think they would play?

How about all the people that complain about not having enough tournaments for Open players?

 

[BigCat]

Would you play?

Here are my initial thoughts on the tournament.

Open Handicap
$500 added with 32 players, $1000 added with 64, $2000 added with 128
Races to:
6's and 7's go to 7,
8's and 9's go to 8,
10's and 10(-1)'s go to 9,
10(-2)'s go to 10

Staggered Entry ($10 - 6's, $15 - 7's, $20 - 8's, $25 - 9's, $30 - 10's, $40 - 10-1's, $50 - 10-2's)

Sidepots $5/$10/$20
Sidepot $10 winner take all for 7's and below (highest finisher)
Sidepot $20 winner take all for 9's and below (highest finisher)
Sidepot $40 winner take all for everyone = WTA

Cost range (from no sidepots to all)
6's - $10 - $55(+$40WTA),
7's - $15 - $60(+$40WTA),
8's - $20 - $70(+$40WTA),
9's - $25 - $80(+$40WTA),
10's - $30 - $105,
10-1's - $40 - $115,
10-2's - $50 - $125

Payout 25% of the field.

This is the most fair that I could make it.
Benefit for Top players:
Longer Races, 10's only give 2 games to 6's and 7's (usually you'd be giving 3 or 4), 9's only give 1 game to 6's and 7's (usually 2 or 3). 8's and 9's play even, 10's and 10(-1)'s play even.

Benefit for Lower players:
Lower rated players can play higher rated players for cheap entry. Still get some weight, but not as much as before. Great competition with ability to improve game.

Prizes and giveaways from our sponsors. 2 & out and 3 & out door prize drawing. I've already secured sponsorship from Dos Equis, Heineken and Tecate for prizes, drinks, girls, etc.

Think it through and let me know if you'd play in this or not. Prize money could be fairly large!

I would definitely play in this tournament.

Ray

 

[Rod]

As a 9 rated player I would play in this type of tournament. However because of working nights and weekends it's not going to happen.

As Ken suggested, I think the max at 9 games makes good sense. Of course the 6's may not be happy but probably few will show anyway. Well, just the ones that want the oppornitunity to player stronger players at a reduced fee.

Years ago we run monthly tournaments. I'd always hear it from one end or the other. It never ends all you can do is try to please the majority and thats it.

If I don't like a tournament, I just don't play. Sometimes I play at metro on monday night open. Hdcp -3 is a tough nut to crack. A 6 going to three can be interesting but I think I've only lost once to a 6. On the other hand playing Mitch I do have a chance to win. I just work with the system and what the room offers. My point is at hdcp -1 I think its fair to all. Just have a cut off point no lower than 6. Then add in the graduated entry fee and you have a tournament.

We charged green fees instead of quarters, it speeds up the tournament. I'm sure all of you have experienced a player say, be right back I need to get some quarters. That plus you don't need a few hundred in quarters and it helps free up the staff's time.

Rod

 

[stuckart]

Looks like we have some people liking the format. How about the 10's and above? What do you guys think?

With 14 tables, we could run a fairly large tourney without having to play till 3 a.m.

I want to hear more.

 

[grindz]

I'm not sure what your goal is. I would think that it is to get the most players to the bar as possible. To do that the 'carrot' would have to be the biggest prize for the least amount of entry $ IMO.

I like the lower entry fees and one day tourneys myself. So short races...race to 4 would be good accross the board. I would be willing to bet the the lower the handicap the higher the bar tab, so keep the entry CHEAP....say half your handicap to encourage the masses. Make it single elimination with the option to buy back in to the losers side with the same entry fee. Have a trophy and/or stipend (maybe free entry for a bigger quarterly...) for the highest finisher of each handicap so us lowlies have something to look forward to.

Make it FUN. There are an infinite # of things to do that could change the atmosphere. If you're trying to gain market share try something new.

JMNSHO

td

 

[FLICKit]

...so IMO i would prefer 8 ball. Please let me know of any open 8 ball tourneys, preferrably with a longer race than 2 on the winner's and 1 on the loser's side in the Phoenix area. Please correct me if i'm wrong, they don't exist. I have my reasons for why they don't, but i won't bore you with them.

Metro Sports has 8 ball weekly tournaments (Fridays) that are longer. Race to 2 all the way, unless you're an 8 then it's race to 3 all the way. But, it's an 8 and under.

Metro Sports used to have an 8 ball weekly tournament (Tuesdays) that was longer races and on 9' tables. Don't think it was Open, but it was 9 and under instead. So, at least it was a place that 9's could play and be on the top end, instead of the bottom. Unfortunately they didn't get enough turn-out to keep it going so they've changed it up, looking for something that'll work better.

 

[Bad Company]

Wow, CC Cowboy you have zero right to even mention Don Rose. I play at clicks and new him very well. I have never even heard of you playing there. If you spent more time on the table rather than posting and making a idiot out yourself, you might get some credit . Like I told you before fall of the face of the earth you F***ing waste of time.

Now to the Az rating system. We should all play even, sink or swim ladies. If you want weight, GAMBLE!

Best regards,

Bad Company

 

[stuckart]

Metro still has the open on Mondays, but you are talking $7 entry and only a $5 sidepot. You get some good competition in there though. I play this tourney every chance I get, but you still only get 20 players.

What I'm trying to do is get the most people of all different skill levels to play in a weekend tournament that has a good size payout. I lowered the entry for the lower ranked players so they can get in cheap and play much better competition. This will improve there game bigtime! I cut the handicap in half so the higher rated players won't get sucked out on with 1 or 2 fluke 9 ball breaks or slop shots. Plus they have larger entry fees, so if they plan on winning the tourney they need to put up.

Who else would be willing to play in this tourney? If I get enough positive response, I'll make this a go in the Fall.

More feedback please? Post #71 has the breakdown.