Average run out for women.

JIGS

JIGS

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi everyone.
I have been a reader now for some time and this is my first post. I apologize if this was asked before.
I am curious as to what the average is for lower level WPBA players or top women amateurs to run out? Lets say on 10 racks for example?
I have not had the opportunity yet to play against "strong" women players, and usually only compete against men. Before I begin to travel 4-5 hours to WPBA qualifiers, I would like to see if anyone can answer this question.
Thanks.
 
JIGS said:
Hi everyone.
I have been a reader now for some time and this is my first post. I apologize if this was asked before.
I am curious as to what the average is for lower level WPBA players or top women amateurs to run out? Lets say on 10 racks for example?
I have not had the opportunity yet to play against "strong" women players, and usually only compete against men. Before I begin to travel 4-5 hours to WPBA qualifiers, I would like to see if anyone can answer this question.
Thanks.
Click to expand...


i'd say if you can break 10 racks, take ball in hand, and run out 5 or so........you would have a pretty good chance at a qualifier.

thanks

VAP
 
JIGS said:
Hi everyone.
I have been a reader now for some time and this is my first post. I apologize if this was asked before.
I am curious as to what the average is for lower level WPBA players or top women amateurs to run out? Lets say on 10 racks for example?
I have not had the opportunity yet to play against "strong" women players, and usually only compete against men. Before I begin to travel 4-5 hours to WPBA qualifiers, I would like to see if anyone can answer this question.
Thanks.
Click to expand...

First and foremost, welcome to the forum.

JIGS, you've left some room for interpretation, but I'm assuming you're asking what percentage of the time the best women break and run, denying opponent a chance to shoot in any given rack.

I don't know the stats here, but I've seen as much women's pro pool as anyone. I'm guessing that less than 5 WPBA players are 20% or better to break and run any given rack, and that only about 25 are 15% or better. The remainder of the field in typical WPBA events probably break and run in the 10 - 15 % range, and the best amateurs in the qualifier system about the same.

If you can break and run at or near 15% of the time, I'm guessing you're very ready to try your luck in the WPBA qualifier system. If you can't, you should still try your luck, because it will help you to reach that level.

Now if you're playing the ghost, meaning taking ball in hand after the break, you probably need to be able to run out four out of ten, on average,to be ready for the qualifiers.

Good luck!
 
JIGS said:
...I am curious as to what the average is for lower level WPBA players or top women amateurs to run out? Lets say on 10 racks for example...
Click to expand...

I have withnessed the 24 ranked (give or take) player practice and play and would say she runs out about 1 out of 30... IMO

Most WPBA players are not a real threat to runout no matter what the table looks like. Only a few are that dangerous. I had a chance to see Webb and Thornfeldt play exhibitions for a few hours and Webb was not that strong either. Pretty weak, actually. Helena was much stronger but still gave control of the table over way to many times (compared to men or Alison)


If you hit 'em strong, you'll survive in the field...
 
just as a side note, the best male players in the world would love to break and run out 30% of the time in all their matches.
 
accdealer said:
just as a side note, the best male players in the world would love to break and run out 30% of the time in all their matches.
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Exactly right. I've discussed the matter with Pat Fleming, and he has observed that, based on stats he compiled in accu-stats matches, over a long session, a pro in "dead punch" will only break and run a little over 30%.
 
sjm said:
Exactly right. I've discussed the matter with Pat Fleming, and he has observed that, based on stats he compiled in accu-stats matches, over a long session, a pro in "dead punch" will only break and run a little over 30%.
Click to expand...
I've had this argument before and I still say 30% for the men is too high. In my opinion it's around 12-15% (20% MAX). I don't have any data to back that up and I know others do, but I'm still not convinced. I watch a lot of pool and I just don't believe it.
 
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Thanks

Thanks everyone for your answers. I average a run out 1 time out of 10 (more if I take ball in hand) and when I don't run out I usually miss 1-2 times per rack depending on the table. I can make my safeties average 60% of the time. I personally find I need to learn more cue call control and I tend to miss some shots and leave the table open.
I was always curious about the way other women play so I appreciate all your answers. I may have hope yet... :)
 
Vonn31 said:
I've had this argument before and I still say 30% for the men is too high. In my opinion it's around 12-15% (20% MAX). I don't have any data to back that up and I know others do, but I'm still not convinced. I watch a lot of pool and I just don't believe it.
Click to expand...

Vonn, I noted that Pat said a men's pro in "dead punch" will break and run just over 30%. That's clearly not the average, which I'd guess is more like 23 or 24% in men's pro pool, and about 14 or 15% in women's pro pool. In addition, don't forget to factor in the equipment conditions. These stats would apply to medium-tight and not tight conditions. Let's also remember that nine on the break and early combos and caroms on the nine would qualify. All first-inning wins are considered "break and run" in the stats.
 
I saw an interview with Gabe Owen and he said he runs out about 30% and would like to get it higher.


JIGS, 1 out of 10 is real good. Most people do not realize how hard it is to do. I am lucky to even get a good shot on the low ball 1 out of 10 times :) And when I do, I screw something else up along the way lol If you break and run 10%, consistantly, you better head down to a few qualifers and get on the tour.
 
Vonn31 said:
I've had this argument before and I still say 30% for the men is too high. In my opinion it's around 12-15% (20% MAX). I don't have any data to back that up and I know others do, but I'm still not convinced. I watch a lot of pool and I just don't believe it.
Click to expand...

I think 30% for pros in general, even in "dead punch," may be too high, but Pat Fleming's got the statistics to back up this claim: Johnny Archer and Earl Strickland have the highest percentages among pros for running out from the break in the tournys that Accu-Stats has kept statistics on, and they are both somewhere between 30%-33%.
 
Eventually....

I'm hoping to get out to some qualifiers in 2006, or later this year. With travel and hotel fees, its going to cost quite a bit, so hopefully I can get sponsors.
I guess the main reason for my post is because I have a chance to play in the Canadian Women's 9-ball Championships in 4 weeks, and I'm a little worried that my level of play is is too low. Thats why i wanted some info before I made my final decision, because again it is fairly expensive for me. A few of my friends said that I would be about a 7 in BCA/VNEA league (whatever that mean..lol)?
Anyway, thanks again for the answers.
 
exactly right. that is why i said the top men players in the world would LOVE to break and run out 30% of the time.

i believe that i would even lay johnny archer 5-2 or maybe 3-1 on the money breaking and running out.

if a top player is in dead gear, playing on soft equipment thats breaking consistently, maybe 30% is more normal. however, i think in the long run if you laid 3-1 you would get the cheese. the problem is with a player like archer he's liable to get up there and put a 5 or 6 together and then you have to wait it out like 20 racks to get even. but, eventually in the long run, 30% is more like a goal rather than a standard.

i think that if playing a top player, if you break and run 30% of the time throughout the whole session, you will undoubtedly get the cheese.

i've watched great players like archer, strickland, reyes, bustamante, etc play whole races to 7, 9, 11, 13 or 15 and maybe only break and run 1 or two racks. then again, i've watched them run packages too. if luck is on their side, and the table breaks well and plays soft, they can beat the odds of 30% from time to time, but in the long run, even the greatest players in the world dream of breaking and running out 30% of the time on any kind of equipment.

that is why the break is so important in 9-ball. if you can put packages on your opponent, you can beat anybody. not even efren reyes can beat you if he's sitting in the chair. running the balls in 9-ball has become such a common thing, even with amateur players that now most matches where there's not alot of breaking and running out come down to moves and safeties as well as management of the table. that is why efren is such a great player, not that he can't run packages, but he relies on the more consistant method of being able to outmove and outmanage his opponents and has the firepower to gun them down once he gets a legitimate opportunity(or sometime an illegitimate opportunity where he makes an unbelieveable runout from nowhere, hence making him the magician.) then you may say, how come the great movers always get gunned down by the straight shooters. it's simple, like i said with efren, he has both talents mastered, he'll out move and out manage his opponent and he possesses the skills and firepower to get the cheese when the opportunity comes.

sorry, went off on a tangent.
 
The average of break and runout depends on the rack.
An ex-world class shooter locally gave me the 6-out if he kept the breaks.
The foot spot had a triangle outline on it. He couldn't runout the first three racks b/c I didn't follow the outline. After he whined and got me to follow the outline.
He made the wingball on all breaks after that and ran 5 out of 6 racks.
Jeannete Lee took on the 9-ball ghost with ball in hand one time back in the mid-90's.
She did not run out half the racks.
Meanwhile, we know top male pros beat the 10-ball ghost easily.
 
JIGS said:
Thanks everyone for your answers. I average a run out 1 time out of 10 (more if I take ball in hand) and when I don't run out I usually miss 1-2 times per rack depending on the table. I can make my safeties average 60% of the time. I personally find I need to learn more cue call control and I tend to miss some shots and leave the table open.
I was always curious about the way other women play so I appreciate all your answers. I may have hope yet... :)
Click to expand...


i find that most women that play ok in the qualifer. I don't think you have to play that good of run out pool just play smart no when to push out and play the safes and you will be able to hang with most if not all the women in the qualifer. I say go get them and good luck. I have a good freind who is a woman who was once rated 9th on the womans pro tour and i can spank her. So good luck and go get them..
 
lewdo26 said:
He said it himself, he knows how to rack 'em. Actually, I didn't say that. The man is my idol.
Click to expand...


true, i'd say he's one of the best rackers out there. if "best" is the right word....

VAP
 
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