Bob Jewett said:
Try this one as an example. CB is the Yellow.
http://CueTable.com/C/?@3AUjt2BYRo3CYOT@
Avoiding kisses in Three Cushion
- Thread starter Strokeone
- Start date
Try this one as an example. CB is the Yellow.
http://CueTable.com/C/?@3AUjt2BYRo3CYOT@
jimshovak said:
You may have something here but I can't grasp how the ball can be lifted especially 3 or 4 diamonds of travel using an upstroke. This is not golfing the ball like some do to get a jump. The tip hits well above and sometimes in the extreme High English zone.
I know all this swiping, upstroke and other extraneous stuff goes against what is said to be the perfect stroke and form and should be avoided at all cost, but think of this for a moment.
Everyone who has ever played this game has used an elevated butt. Some have even become experts at this technique. Most have never explored lowering the butt. Why? The table and rails are in the way. Simply because the table is in the way shouldn't automatically mean that shooting "up" doesn't cause some effect when we know for a fact that shooting down does. If there is anything to add to the game by lowering the butt, the only way to accomplish this and keeping otherwise good traditional technique, is with a rocking motion acquired by moving your hand back on the butt.
I'm not here to beat this horse but mostly all I hear in this thread is there can't be anything to it and maybe that's correct and it's all in my head. But I'll take confidence (or ignorance) over "it can't be done" any day. Additionally I would have never brought this up if it hadn't been taught to me by a expert, student and someone who acquired the "Grand Master" title in this game. He got it from a man who most think was the best player in this country, until Sang Lee, since Willie Hoppe. How did he get it and why did he teach it?
I never impose on others stuff that I think I've discovered on my own since generally that turns out to be crap. But I am free with information that has been handed down to me from experts and professionals. You can bite off on it, or throw it away with the rest of the garbage we all hear on this game.
My coach in High School would tell us "Don't say you can't do it till you've practiced it a thousand times." This one only took me 1 time for it to work.
3kushn... you are 100% correct. an upstroke most definetly changes the trajectory of the cueball. compared to a normal straight follow thru follow stroke. or a downward follow stroke. (yes.. I said a downward follow stroke. it it possible to follow or even force follow by hitting the cueball high with a down stroke. meaning cue level..but dips downward upon contact. all 3 follow strokes produce very diffrent results. and dont let anyone tell you otherwise. 
Where are you driving the first object ball? Which kiss are you trying to avoid?3kushn said:
I read your diagram as the white object ball one ball diameter off diamond 3 from the far end, the cue ball about 2 1/4 diamonds from its end, and the cue ball and white ball lined up to a ball (imaginary) frozen on the side cushion a diamond an a half from the far end. The red is big in the corner. Is that right?
3kushn said:
Good question. but to be honest.. I dont know. I use the upwards and straight follow when playing 3 cushion. because it works well with the systems that I use. I have tried the downward follow stroke for 3 cushion but the reaction is so different that it doesnt go well with my systems.
The downward stroke I learned during my 20+ years of playing pool. (I use it only for pool). For me, the downward stroke provides me with the best accuracy when I'm force following the cueball (playing pool).
I have not yet found an application for it for 3 cushion.
3 cushion is a game of strokes. its impossible to play well using the same stroke over and over. when I realized this is when I really started improving.
Let me preface all this by stating that I am pretty new to 3 cushion (1 year 2 months playing.. lately consistently avereging .5
) so I am still learning. I'm just stating what works well for me. BTW..
Anyone know of any amature 3 cushion tournaments in the east coast Tri state area (PA...DE...NJ) ? even willing to go to New York.
TIA
Refesh my memory. Wasn't Allen Gilbert, working on or planning on publishing materials/book on "how to avoid kiss shots". Does anyone know what happen to the book materials, after he pass away?
I tried the diagrammed shot, and found some interesting things about the kisses involved. The standard mistaken way to shoot the shot is with running (right) follow and about a half-ball hit on the left side of the white ball. This seems to get a kiss nearly every time with both the cue ball and the object ball having hit one rail first. Small adjustments around that center don't get you out of the kiss. I found four ways to avoid the kiss with this shot.3kushn said:
Speed up the object ball: Hit the object ball a lot fuller so that it banks back to a diamond from the red ball. It passes the kiss-point before the cue ball gets there.
Slow down the cue ball: play the shot maybe a little fuller than half ball, but without the running english -- just plain follow.
Force the object ball to a different rail first: cut the object ball so thin that it hits the side rail rather than near the middle of the end rail first.
Take a shot that has no kiss: For this shot, play the cue ball to the right side of the object ball with right english. You need to pick up a cushion just before the red ball, but at least you don't have to worry about a kiss.
The first two ways to avoid a kiss can be done without any special kind of stroke -- just come straight through the ball with whatever side spin you want. The problem with this shot as an example that requires a special stroke is that it can be done fairly easily without a special stroke. So, I'm still left with the suspicion that the special stroke just gets you to a combination of spin, speed and hit that can be achieved in a more straightforward manner.
3kushn said:
You are right. I assumed you were a lot closer to the first object ball when I envisioned your shot. That's why I thought about the slight jump. If you are far away from the first object ball, then obviously the jump is finished well before it hits the first ball.
There is definitely something to the upstroke. I have a natural "upstroke" which I use on most shots. The action I get on some shots is not easily taught to others who stroke a lot differently than me.