AZ Challenge Matches would be cool

[JB Cases]

There are some that were done, the most famous one is Melinda vs cubc a few years back.

And there is a King of blah blah state section that is a bit dead where you can put forth challenges.

A neat thing that one person did, Tom McGonagle, he put forth a bet that his team would finish better than it did last year in some league nationals, against his signed book. I PMed him and put up another $30 against a pool lesson for my son which he accepted. Got a book and son got a lesson

The OMGWTF vs. CUBC has to go down in history as the most epic forum to table battle in history. The whole story from beginning to end needs to be made into a movie or something, maybe a mockumentary but it would be great.

 

[Snapshot9]

I will tell you what is even better ...

Is to implement Challenges into your favorite Poolroom. Here in Wichita at Stix, we have Saturday Night Challenges (grudge matches) every Saturday night. Minimum bet is $50 a set, but usually the minimum bet is a $100 a set. If the players bet $200 a set, the owner, Joe, throws in a $100 to the winner. They play 3 sets of 9 ball on a big table, race to 9. The bet can be as high as the 2 players agree to. We have had a $2,000 Challenge match. We usually have from 15 to 50 spectators watching the matches every week. Stix serves free popcorn. The Challenges are for local players mostly, but regional players participate too.

We have official rules and rankings. The rankings are pretty similiar as to how they do it in boxing. A list is kept for official challenges, and a challenged person has 2 weeks to accept or reject the challenge. If a person rejects the challenge, then the challenger goes above the challenged person in the rankings.

We have a commentor every week with a laptop hooked up to our 'Wichita Pool Players' group on Facebook. He gives a blow by blow play of each game. We also have boards up for scoring where everyone can follow. We also have an official rack girl every week. The matches are taped every week, and later put on Youtube for all to see. (You can search for 'Saturday night Challenge Matches' on youtube if you want to watch 1 or 2).

This is the first time in 51 years of playing I have seen this done, and it is successful. I might add that David, our guy Friday for the Challenge Matches also makes a poster to post in our Facebook group every week, and we usually have a voting poll for the Challenge Match.
Our 57th Chalenge match is coming up this Saturday.

This is how to add more fun into your local Poolroom. I might add that Stix has 6 weekly tournaments a week, with 5 being 200% payback, $5 entry, and 1 being 150% payback, $10 entry.

Anyone not too far from Wichita that wants to be a member of our Facebook group just friend me on Facebook and I will add you.

 

[lfigueroa]

And it went EXACTLY as I said it did.

You act like I have hounded you for ten years.

So let's settle the timeline for the readers.

2002 - I learn an aiming system and talk about it on RSB and you dog me out of the gate relentlessly. We bark back and forth. Several months later we are both at an RSB tournament in Chicago at Chris' Billiards. I beat you playing one pocket. Neither of us says a word about matching up for money and we are cordial to each other.

We don't bark at each other online after that.

2004 or 03 - We see each other at the DCC and we chat a bit and you buy me a drink at the bar. Neither of us talks about playing for money, we are good with each other.

2010 - Super Billiards Expo - you come to my booth as part of another person's entourage, with you is Freddie Agnir, Jim Brennan and I don't remember who else, maybe Murray Tucker. All of you sit down at my booth and we have a discussion. You claim I never compare our cases to other makers and Fred corrects you. Other than that there is NO MENTION by your or me of playing each other. We are actually fine with each other at this point.

Sometime after that you go off again calling aiming system users fools and aiming system teachers charlatans. At this point I offer you 9/8 as stated above. And since then I have been consistent on that point.

So please stop twisting the facts Lou. The facts are you have seen me three times in 11 year and all three times you have NOT asked to play. And all three times there wasn't any bad blood between us. In fact after the RSB match which I luckily won despite barely knowing the rules to one pocket I was highly complimentary of not only your game but also your character. Sad to say that I was unfortunately wrong about your character it seems. Which is a bummer because you are genuinely nice in person.

lol, like a trout to the lure on Opening Day.

John, the fact is that you have woofed at me, in one way or another, for years. The most recent has been the 9-8, for a $100 a game, for the last several years.

Here is another fact: I have no interest in playing you. It's all in *your* head.

I was offered a business proposition to play you for the $20K a couple of years ago and that was enticing enough that I agreed. Other than that, I could not give a rat's ass about playing you, have said so repeatedly, and yet... you continue to bow-wow.

Lou Figueroa

 

[JB Cases]

lol, like a trout to the lure on Opening Day.

John, the fact is that you have woofed at me, in one way or another, for years. The most recent has been the 9-8, for a $100 a game, for the last several years.

Here is another fact: I have no interest in playing you. It's all in *your* head.

I was offered a business proposition to play you for the $20K a couple of years ago and that was enticing enough that I agreed. Other than that, I could not give a rat's ass about playing you, have said so repeatedly, and yet... you continue to bow-wow.

Lou Figueroa

No Lou, I simply offered you the opportunity to play. I don't care if I play you or not. I mean honestly given that you are incredibly strong and I am very weak it's pretty much a $500 donation I would giving you. So it's not like I am trying to hustle you or anything.

But you continually mischaracterize things and forget the facts and the timelines. Everything is as I stated it. Furthermore your business partners, using Lenny as their spokesman, said that you nixed the deal because emotionally you weren't able to play me for less than $20,000.

The $10,000 I offered to freeze up wasn't enough incentive for you and your partners. That's fine with me because as I said I would have had little chance anyway. But please don't act like the high-roll move your unnamed investors tried to pull was anything but silly. What you should have done is take me up on the counteroffer and then you would have a platform today to stand on. But you didn't because of some claimed emotional issues. Which I can understand because you seem to be quite disconcerted and unable to remember things indicating that something is not right with you. It happens to the best of us, no shame in that.

I also understand if you're a little scared to play. I would probably be a very ungracious winner if I did manage to outrun the nuts and beat you giving up 9/8. Why would I do that? Well simply because of the liberties you have taken over these years to insult and defame me and many other good people on these forums. It's a childish and petty thought but that's just a pool fantasy. So if I were in your shoes I would want to avoid playing me because of the ever so slight chance that I could win and have THAT mark against me. I could fully understand you giving in to your fear with the specter of a loss to me a possibility.

Whatever the reason on your side, the offer stands good. You have 9/8 and I will post $500 just to see how I do.

 

[JB Cases]

Is to implement Challenges into your favorite Poolroom. Here in Wichita at Stix, we have Saturday Night Challenges (grudge matches) every Saturday night. Minimum bet is $50 a set, but usually the minimum bet is a $100 a set. If the players bet $200 a set, the owner, Joe, throws in a $100 to the winner. They play 3 sets of 9 ball on a big table, race to 9. The bet can be as high as the 2 players agree to. We have had a $2,000 Challenge match. We usually have from 15 to 50 spectators watching the matches every week. Stix serves free popcorn. The Challenges are for local players mostly, but regional players participate too.

We have official rules and rankings. The rankings are pretty similiar as to how they do it in boxing. A list is kept for official challenges, and a challenged person has 2 weeks to accept or reject the challenge. If a person rejects the challenge, then the challenger goes above the challenged person in the rankings.

We have a commentor every week with a laptop hooked up to our 'Wichita Pool Players' group on Facebook. He gives a blow by blow play of each game. We also have boards up for scoring where everyone can follow. We also have an official rack girl every week. The matches are taped every week, and later put on Youtube for all to see. (You can search for 'Saturday night Challenge Matches' on youtube if you want to watch 1 or 2).

This is the first time in 51 years of playing I have seen this done, and it is successful. I might add that David, our guy Friday for the Challenge Matches also makes a poster to post in our Facebook group every week, and we usually have a voting poll for the Challenge Match.
Our 57th Chalenge match is coming up this Saturday.

This is how to add more fun into your local Poolroom. I might add that Stix has 6 weekly tournaments a week, with 5 being 200% payback, $5 entry, and 1 being 150% payback, $10 entry.

Anyone not too far from Wichita that wants to be a member of our Facebook group just friend me on Facebook and I will add you.

THAT is AWESOME and sounds like a ton of fun.

 

[lfigueroa]

No Lou, I simply offered you the opportunity to play. I don't care if I play you or not. I mean honestly given that you are incredibly strong and I am very weak it's pretty much a $500 donation I would giving you. So it's not like I am trying to hustle you or anything.

But you continually mischaracterize things and forget the facts and the timelines. Everything is as I stated it. Furthermore your business partners, using Lenny as their spokesman, said that you nixed the deal because emotionally you weren't able to play me for less than $20,000.

The $10,000 I offered to freeze up wasn't enough incentive for you and your partners. That's fine with me because as I said I would have had little chance anyway. But please don't act like the high-roll move your unnamed investors tried to pull was anything but silly. What you should have done is take me up on the counteroffer and then you would have a platform today to stand on. But you didn't because of some claimed emotional issues. Which I can understand because you seem to be quite disconcerted and unable to remember things indicating that something is not right with you. It happens to the best of us, no shame in that.

I also understand if you're a little scared to play. I would probably be a very ungracious winner if I did manage to outrun the nuts and beat you giving up 9/8. Why would I do that? Well simply because of the liberties you have taken over these years to insult and defame me and many other good people on these forums. It's a childish and petty thought but that's just a pool fantasy. So if I were in your shoes I would want to avoid playing me because of the ever so slight chance that I could win and have THAT mark against me. I could fully understand you giving in to your fear with the specter of a loss to me a possibility.

Whatever the reason on your side, the offer stands good. You have 9/8 and I will post $500 just to see how I do.

John, again, I don't care about your offer. You had the opportunity to take advantage of my fear of losing to you, my emotional weakness, my potential shaming, and the chance to take your revenge... but when it was going to cost you $20 large, you choked on it like a two-bit sucker.

It's all in your head, John. Stop listening to the voices.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Montana Mike]

This thread sounds fun already. That Wichita room sounds like the place to be. Anymore, I think that anytime people are playing for money is good. I finally got to play someone today for the first time in probably a month at the poolroom I go to. I got to play a really strong player and when it was 3-3 in the first set my tip delaminated and left me with only the last layer. Needless to say, I borrowed a cue to finish the set with but didn't up much of a fight the rest of the way. Can't wait until both my spare shafts reach the manufacturer for work this week so I will have a few spares.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Why you duck me then>!?!?! I even wrote your name on my cashish!

Duck duck who?

 

[JB Cases]

John, again, I don't care about your offer. You had the opportunity to take advantage of my fear of losing to you, my emotional weakness, my potential shaming, and the chance to take your revenge... but when it was going to cost you $20 large, you choked on it like a two-bit sucker.

It's all in your head, John. Stop listening to the voices.

Lou Figueroa

I choked on what like a what?

Let's see if we have this straight. I have said over and over that you are the better player, you have said you are the better player, everyone who knows us both has said you are the better player.

So anyone other than myself making an offer for you to play me even or with me giving you weight is incredibly nitty. You seem to think that such an offer to play for 20k would ever be seriously considered.

Be that as it may I did not fold or choke in my response. I offered to play you for $1000 per game. Now throughout my entire life and my travels all over the world this is considered to be big action in pool no matter where in the world it happens. Not only that I made you an incredible offer that I would give you weight in the next set if I happened to win and even more weight in the next set after that if I were to win that one.

I don't think anyone here but you considers it choking or ducking to offer to play a superior player even for $1000 per game and freeze up 10k.

But then you and your silent backers knew full well that this offer of yours wouldn't be accepted. However when offered the chance to make $10,000 you bailed on your backers citing emotional distress instead of simply making them some easy money.

So respectfully Lou, you are the only choker here. Perhaps next time your backers will choose someone with a stronger character.

Lastly, you continue to bring this up whenever you can while claiming that it's me hounding you. I would think that for someone who claims to not want to play me you should perhaps consider simply dropping it by now. Otherwise the same discussion will happen each time you bring it up and each time you will be shown to be acting like a little girl who didn't get the doll she wanted.

If however you feel some deep-seated need to continue then by all means continue. I am happy to discuss your fragility and your constant defamation and needling as long as you feel you need to. Anything to help you work through whatever is bother you.

 

[lfigueroa]

I choked on what like a what?

Let's see if we have this straight. I have said over and over that you are the better player, you have said you are the better player, everyone who knows us both has said you are the better player.

So anyone other than myself making an offer for you to play me even or with me giving you weight is incredibly nitty. You seem to think that such an offer to play for 20k would ever be seriously considered.

Be that as it may I did not fold or choke in my response. I offered to play you for $1000 per game. Now throughout my entire life and my travels all over the world this is considered to be big action in pool no matter where in the world it happens. Not only that I made you an incredible offer that I would give you weight in the next set if I happened to win and even more weight in the next set after that if I were to win that one.

I don't think anyone here but you considers it choking or ducking to offer to play a superior player even for $1000 per game and freeze up 10k.

But then you and your silent backers knew full well that this offer of yours wouldn't be accepted. However when offered the chance to make $10,000 you bailed on your backers citing emotional distress instead of simply making them some easy money.

So respectfully Lou, you are the only choker here. Perhaps next time your backers will choose someone with a stronger character.

Lastly, you continue to bring this up whenever you can while claiming that it's me hounding you. I would think that for someone who claims to not want to play me you should perhaps consider simply dropping it by now. Otherwise the same discussion will happen each time you bring it up and each time you will be shown to be acting like a little girl who didn't get the doll she wanted.

If however you feel some deep-seated need to continue then by all means continue. I am happy to discuss your fragility and your constant defamation and needling as long as you feel you need to. Anything to help you work through whatever is bother you.

Once again, you don't know what you're talking about. (Not that that has ever stopped you before.) I had *nothing* to do with playing or not playing for a particular amount -- that was up to the money.

And, BTW, there was a counter offer:

Quote Fast Lenny:
"After all the talk John that has been said it would not be worth it for Lou to be in the same room playing for less than $20,000. There is no high rolling here, just a real game to settle the score. You offered 9/8 and made no mention of a price and now your saying $100 a game?, that is going to prove very little and not mean much either.

I think betting something high will see who holds up better, the feel player or the system player. I am guessing that your system will fall apart under the pressure against a player who is close to your ability but perhaps not since you have more gambling experience then Lou which is why you offered 9/8.

John, if your scared just say so, your starting to back peddle talking about betting $100 a game will not cut it and stating IF your at the Open in May. I know that both of you guys playing for the money is a big deal but proving something is even bigger, you both have an axe to grind so lets just settle it.

This forum is not like AZ Billiards, people here make games and when they say something they follow through with it, you offered 9/8 and go on how you will do this for $10,000 and then that. It is sickening to listen to over and over and I am very tolerable for the most part and you can see people on here not very happy with how your acting.

Like I said I have a system but I am not always in peoples face with it because it will accomplish nothing, if someone is curious its easier to just show them in person so they can understand it. I do not believe this forum really is the place for CTE, the majority do not care for it, you cant teach old dogs new tricks is the saying and its true for most here.

The best way to settle it is on the pool table, we can all post words all day long but we are not getting anywhere nor proving anything. If you do not want to play then stop offering things you cant follow through on because it makes your word lose credibility.

You offered 9/8, since its obvious you do not want to play for $20,000, will you give the game for $10,000 and post $2,000 no show money, game played at the Open? Play 2 sets, if you beat Lou we play another the same way (9/8), if Lou beats you then we play another but the set is even."


As I recalled, you declined.

Quote John Barton:
"You're out of line. You are getting in the middle of something you don't belong in. But if that's how you want to be then like you said it's a free country.

So like I said you have my terms and if 1000 a game isn't enough for you big time gamblers then I have to say I am not in your league.

There wasn't a bunch of talk until you started it. So keep you facts straight.

I told Lou how I would play him dozens of times, giving up 9/8 for $100 a game. That was supposed to be a FRIENDLY grudge match. Now if your nitty ass wants to try and steal then it's on my terms.

Got it?"


Got it, John. You choked on it -- you're "not in the same league." ;-)

Lou Figueroa

 

[JB Cases]

Once again, you don't know what you're talking about. (Not that that has ever stopped you before.) I had *nothing* to do with playing or not playing for a particular amount -- that was up to the money.

And, BTW, there was a counter offer:

Quote Fast Lenny:
"After all the talk John that has been said it would not be worth it for Lou to be in the same room playing for less than $20,000. There is no high rolling here, just a real game to settle the score. You offered 9/8 and made no mention of a price and now your saying $100 a game?, that is going to prove very little and not mean much either.

I think betting something high will see who holds up better, the feel player or the system player. I am guessing that your system will fall apart under the pressure against a player who is close to your ability but perhaps not since you have more gambling experience then Lou which is why you offered 9/8.

John, if your scared just say so, your starting to back peddle talking about betting $100 a game will not cut it and stating IF your at the Open in May. I know that both of you guys playing for the money is a big deal but proving something is even bigger, you both have an axe to grind so lets just settle it.

This forum is not like AZ Billiards, people here make games and when they say something they follow through with it, you offered 9/8 and go on how you will do this for $10,000 and then that. It is sickening to listen to over and over and I am very tolerable for the most part and you can see people on here not very happy with how your acting.

Like I said I have a system but I am not always in peoples face with it because it will accomplish nothing, if someone is curious its easier to just show them in person so they can understand it. I do not believe this forum really is the place for CTE, the majority do not care for it, you cant teach old dogs new tricks is the saying and its true for most here.

The best way to settle it is on the pool table, we can all post words all day long but we are not getting anywhere nor proving anything. If you do not want to play then stop offering things you cant follow through on because it makes your word lose credibility.

You offered 9/8, since its obvious you do not want to play for $20,000, will you give the game for $10,000 and post $2,000 no show money, game played at the Open? Play 2 sets, if you beat Lou we play another the same way (9/8), if Lou beats you then we play another but the set is even."


As I recalled, you declined.

Quote John Barton:
"You're out of line. You are getting in the middle of something you don't belong in. But if that's how you want to be then like you said it's a free country.

So like I said you have my terms and if 1000 a game isn't enough for you big time gamblers then I have to say I am not in your league.

There wasn't a bunch of talk until you started it. So keep you facts straight.

I told Lou how I would play him dozens of times, giving up 9/8 for $100 a game. That was supposed to be a FRIENDLY grudge match. Now if your nitty ass wants to try and steal then it's on my terms.

Got it?"


Got it, John. You choked on it -- you're "not in the same league." ;-)

Lou Figueroa

1000 a game is plenty. You had the nuts and you dogged it.

Also Lenny and I are cool now so don't think that you dredging this nonsense up will put me on tilt or be upset with him.

As for the 2k no show money your backers were asking me to make an extra trip just to go up against the nuts. I fail to see where that makes any sense. I said if I were going to make the trip then we woukd play. As it was I was completely unable to go at that time anyway.

And just to keep the record straight this all came about after you attacked yet again for someone daring to discuss how the cte method of aiming helped them to play one pocket. So really it is all about your own hangups.

Sorry that you didnt get to rob me for 1k per game. You can get lunch money anytime though getting 9/8 for 100 per game. When you are emotionally ready though as I sincerely don't want to see you distraught.

 

[lfigueroa]

1000 a game is plenty. You had the nuts and you dogged it.

Also Lenny and I are cool now so don't think that you dredging this nonsense up will put me on tilt or be upset with him.

As for the 2k no show money your backers were asking me to make an extra trip just to go up against the nuts. I fail to see where that makes any sense. I said if I were going to make the trip then we woukd play. As it was I was completely unable to go at that time anyway.

And just to keep the record straight this all came about after you attacked yet again for someone daring to discuss how the cte method of aiming helped them to play one pocket. So really it is all about your own hangups.

Sorry that you didnt get to rob me for 1k per game. You can get lunch money anytime though getting 9/8 for 100 per game. When you are emotionally ready though as I sincerely don't want to see you distraught.

$1K game is enough? Says who? You?

The $2K guarantee money was if you were making the trip, not to make it. The issue was you being in town and then finding a way to weasel out anyway.

Lastly, the reason we didn't play was because everyone involved knew that you'd be the one to get emotionally distraught for the money when your fabled system broke down under the heat

Other than that, I have no interest in playing you.

Lou Figueroa