back stroke

[NineBallNut]

My game has hit an all time low. I think that I am not cueing straight throughout my stroke. The only way I seem to get around that is to shorten my back stroke. This however limits some of my natural shots.

I know this will vary from player to player, but what do you guys think is the best stroke travel for taking the cue back to start a shot? Do you think a shorter stroke, say 6 inches is better than a big loopy back stroke? If So, Why?

 

[MVPCues]

My game has hit an all time low. I think that I am not cueing straight throughout my stroke. The only way I seem to get around that is to shorten my back stroke. This however limits some of my natural shots.

I know this will vary from player to player, but what do you guys think is the best stroke travel for taking the cue back to start a shot? Do you think a shorter stroke, say 6 inches is better than a big loopy back stroke? If So, Why?

I personally don't think artificially shortening your stroke that much is a good idea outside of just some practice by yourself to help you figure out what might be wrong.

Maybe try shortening your bridge? That might help shorten the overall length needed and help you keep in line without necessarily limiting your back stroke and the shots you can make.
Kelly

 

[pooltchr]

The only purpose of a back stroke is to put yourself into position to begin your forward stroke. Come back slowly with a smooth straight motion. Pause. Come forward in a straight motion. Shortening your backstroke will only limit how far you will move forward before you make contact with the cue ball. The distance traveled and the straightness of your forward stroke motion are two separate issues.
Steve

 

[NineBallNut]

So Maybe the problem is that my stroke is not disciplined? I take the cue back and forward at a very quick rate. I will try slowing it down. I have a real problem pausing at the back. Just doesn't seem natural

 

[mnShooter]

I don't really like to pause at the back either. But a slow backstroke followed by a slight pause really helps accuracy.

 

[Andrew Manning]

My game has hit an all time low. I think that I am not cueing straight throughout my stroke. The only way I seem to get around that is to shorten my back stroke. This however limits some of my natural shots.

I know this will vary from player to player, but what do you guys think is the best stroke travel for taking the cue back to start a shot? Do you think a shorter stroke, say 6 inches is better than a big loopy back stroke? If So, Why?

IMO, 6-10 inches is all the back stroke you need; if the phrase "big loopy" describes it, then you're making it harder on yourself to achieve accurate tip placement and a straight, efficient, and repeatable cue motion. I think accurate tip placement and repeatable motion are key to achieving consistent pocketing, CB action, and speed control.

As far as stroking straight, focus on your finishing position. First off, if you're not staying down on the shot, you won't have a finishing position, and that's part of the problem. Assuming you do stay down and pause at the end of your follow-through, look at your tip and find out if it landed along your line of aim. If it didn't, you're probably steering the stroke.

Shoot for a while forcing yourself to stroke straight through the ball and finish like a rock at the end of your follow-through with your cue still pointing the right direction. You may find you miss balls when you're concentrating on stroking straight through the ball. This is possibly because you had been steering your stroke to compensate for inaccurate alignment.

Once you can pocket balls and finish straight through the shot without the tip veering off course on the follow-through, then I don't think it matters whether your entire stroke is totally straight, and you'll find you no longer need to play tricks on yourself to try to hit the ball straight.

-Andrew

 

[pooltchr]

So Maybe the problem is that my stroke is not disciplined? I take the cue back and forward at a very quick rate. I will try slowing it down. I have a real problem pausing at the back. Just doesn't seem natural

To quote Randyg..."all players have a pause at the back of their stroke..the good players do it on purpose"

Steve

 

[Jigger]

To quote Randyg..."all players have a pause at the back of their stroke..the good players do it on purpose"

Steve

Was that you Steve or Randy G that often quoted the stroke discipline, "set, stroke, freeze, finish". << something to that effect.

Could you mention the correct phrase and briefly elaborate on it? Thanks alot -

 

[zeeder]

Was that you Steve or Randy G that often quoted the stroke discipline, "set, stroke, freeze, finish". << something to that effect.

Could you mention the correct phrase and briefly elaborate on it? Thanks alot -

iirc it's set, pause, finish, freeze.

I think it means to get set, pause at the final backstroke, finish the stroke and then freeze in the finish position so you can evaluate your stroke.

 

[JonoNZ]

I thought that you should have a longer backswing to generate more power (ie. long draw shot or follow through). This way the power of a shot is generated more naturally than forcing your arm.

 

[kollegedave]

NBN,

While don't necessarily have a problem with the idea of slowing your back stroke down, the ability to impart a high level of velocity on the cue ball is important (see a thread in which DoomCue and I get in this debate over the appropriate physics equation to describe a successful power draw stroke) and, I think, somewhat hindered with a slower back stroke.

Anyway, it has been my experience that almost everything meaningful about stroke mechanics begins and ends with the position of your feet. Try out a few stance variations/pre shot routines and see how these effect your stroke. I bet the right stance will straighten it right out. My 0.02.

kollegedave

So Maybe the problem is that my stroke is not disciplined? I take the cue back and forward at a very quick rate. I will try slowing it down. I have a real problem pausing at the back. Just doesn't seem natural

 

[pooltchr]

NBN,

While don't necessarily have a problem with the idea of slowing your back stroke down, the ability to impart a high level of velocity on the cue ball is important (see a thread in which DoomCue and I get in this debate over the appropriate physics equation to describe a successful power draw stroke) and, I think, somewhat hindered with a slower back stroke.

Does the speed you use backing your car out of the driveway have any impact on how quickly you can accelerate when you put it into drive?
Steve

 

[Jigger]

iirc it's set, pause, finish, freeze.

I think it means to get set, pause at the final backstroke, finish the stroke and then freeze in the finish position so you can evaluate your stroke.

Thx for the correct phrase and explanation Zeeder. I knew I had it botched up.

Now I'll probably be mumbling that under my breath all evening at the local tourney 2nite.

 

[NineBallNut]

Does the speed you use backing your car out of the driveway have any impact on how quickly you can accelerate when you put it into drive?
Steve

only if you don't stop before putting it into drive, then the faster in reverse when shifted and on the gas would delay accelleration......
Sorry, Had to be a smart ass...

 

[Andrew Manning]

Does the speed you use backing your car out of the driveway have any impact on how quickly you can accelerate when you put it into drive?
Steve

If your car were attached to a human tricep that slowly got tenser and tighter as it backed up, then yes, that tricep's tenseness due to the slow deliberate movement could hinder its ability to accelerate.

When I use a very slow back stroke and a pronounced pause (while everyone has a cessation of backward motion at the end of their stroke, this is not the same thing as a pronounced pause) my arm tightens before delivery of the final stroke. If I draw back at a quick but smooth pace and transition into forward motion without pausing for longer than an instant, my arm stays loose.

Of course, other people's arm muscles will react differently to different back strokes and pauses than mine. But to extend your metaphor, when it's my car and my driveway, backing up slowly, stopping, and then accelerating causes me to begin my forward acceleration with my foot on the brake.

-Andrew

 

[Fliedout]

My stroke improved greatly once I started bringing the cue farther back on the backstroke. It sort of "loads" your stroke and makes it much smoother, so all you really have to do is let the cue go rather than force it.

 

[Flex]

My game has hit an all time low. I think that I am not cueing straight throughout my stroke. The only way I seem to get around that is to shorten my back stroke. This however limits some of my natural shots.

I know this will vary from player to player, but what do you guys think is the best stroke travel for taking the cue back to start a shot? Do you think a shorter stroke, say 6 inches is better than a big loopy back stroke? If So, Why?

Actually, for certain shots, typically stop shots on balls that are straight in and where the object ball is say 4 diamonds from the pocket, I alter my stroking patterns to one that works very well for me on this shot. On these, my back stroke is probably 3 inches max. My follow through is maybe 8 to 10 inches. I find this works best for me on these. How do I know? Well, I practiced with Joe Tucker's 3rd Eye Stroke Trainer and came to that conclusion after shooting hundreds and hundreds of shots. As soon as I let the back stroke go longer, my accuracy goes down. There are many shots where this isn't such an issue, but if the shot needs to be super accurate, that short stroke shot is the one I'll go with.

Flex

 

[Flex]

IMO, 6-10 inches is all the back stroke you need; if the phrase "big loopy" describes it, then you're making it harder on yourself to achieve accurate tip placement and a straight, efficient, and repeatable cue motion. I think accurate tip placement and repeatable motion are key to achieving consistent pocketing, CB action, and speed control.

As far as stroking straight, focus on your finishing position. First off, if you're not staying down on the shot, you won't have a finishing position, and that's part of the problem. Assuming you do stay down and pause at the end of your follow-through, look at your tip and find out if it landed along your line of aim. If it didn't, you're probably steering the stroke.

Shoot for a while forcing yourself to stroke straight through the ball and finish like a rock at the end of your follow-through with your cue still pointing the right direction. You may find you miss balls when you're concentrating on stroking straight through the ball. This is possibly because you had been steering your stroke to compensate for inaccurate alignment.

Once you can pocket balls and finish straight through the shot without the tip veering off course on the follow-through, then I don't think it matters whether your entire stroke is totally straight, and you'll find you no longer need to play tricks on yourself to try to hit the ball straight.

-Andrew

Tap, tap, tap!

Flex

 

[kollegedave]

Does the speed you use backing your car out of the driveway have any impact on how quickly you can accelerate when you put it into drive?
Steve

Pooltchr

Andrew hit the nail on the head. Your analogy exists with a rather profound inaccuracy, as in this case we are concerned with a human arm, not a car. If you are perplexed about the difference between an “arm” and a “car” many people find books called Dictionaries rather helpful in distinguishing between confusing words.

Before you tried to dispose of my advice with a curt and completely inaccurate analogy, I was attempting to offer some advice that may conflict with yours, but would allow our troubled poster another viewpoint. I have found that when my back stroke is rather slow when compared to my forward stroke, I cannot be as accurate in my hit on the cue ball. I think this is because some kind of a jerk must to occur to accelerate the cue from a really slow speed (or a stop) to a high speed. I think this jerk causes inaccuracy. Thus, I have found a faster back and forward stroke to be more accurate when attempting to impart a high velocity on the cue ball. Naturally, I use slow practice strokes where the shots call for them. However, there have been plenty great players with slow back strokes, and this is why I think speed of practice strokes is less important and more about what an individual player is comfortable with. This is also why I think your response to my thread was arrogant and out of place, as I do not necessarily disagree with you.

The more important concept that I hope this poster will consider, is to try new pre-shot routines/ stances, as I think this can be a saving grace for any player.

Also, next time you match up with Efren, you might want to tell him you are a BCA certified instructor; he’ll probably become so terrified of getting his ass kicked that he’ll just drop his cue and run, forfeiting the post money and leaving you with a new cue.

kollegedave

 

[Rod]

My game has hit an all time low.

I know this will vary from player to player, but what do you guys think is the best stroke travel for taking the cue back to start a shot? Do you think a shorter stroke, say 6 inches is better than a big loopy back stroke? If So, Why?

I haven't read replies but you should start with a pause at the CB. Then bring the cue back at a slower pace. Finish your backswing then the forward transition will become a lot smoother.

I didn't say pause, I said finish your backswing. By doing this you may in fact create a slight pause. The important part is the change in direction must be smooth. Then feel like your letting the cue float through impact, the follow through will then be natural.

The hit instinct gets all of us from time to time and that's what you want to avoid. Slow down the shot isn't going anywhere, and a light grip sure helps. Try to keep your grip pressure consistant from start to finish (another indicator), that will help as well.

Rod