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sixpack

sixpack

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A few months ago, I posted a thread about taking it to the next level. I was frustrated because I was playing well, even great, but not to my potential.

Anyway, I received a lot of good replies and generous offers of help which ultimately led me to some thinking.

I was thinking about what I do when I play well, and I identified the following cycle in my game.
1) can't play for crap
2) back to basics, practice stroke, aim, stance, break, strategy etc...
3) start playing good, focusing well, good safeties, winning almost every game/match
4) start playing so good it's unbelievable, running multiple racks, dominating opponents.
5) playing so good that I feel like I can't miss and start making 'hero' shots. win more than my share.
6) start missing hero shots, but still keep trying them. Don't win much.
7) try to focus on basics while playing, but not quite there. Hardly ever win.
8) can't play for crap. Never win. go to #1)

So, the bottom line is that I'm stuck in a cycle which sometimes has me playing great and sometimes has me playing like a chump.

After thinking about this for a while. Once it was laid out, it really didn't take much thought. As they say, describing the problem accurately is the biggest step towards solving it.

The reality is, I practice hard when my game is on tilt, get it back in shape and then coast until it's an emergency again, then start all over. In short, I don't practice to get better, I practice to get the same. That's not how I have always seen myself as a player and it is pretty humbling to me.

I have adjusted my practice and approach to incorporate basics into every practice session. I have also incorporated basic strategy sessions. I find that when I start making hero shots, I play loose position...which is how I put myself in positions to make hero shots.

So instead of going 'back to basics' to get back to my same level, I'm thinking of it in terms of 'mastering' basics to get to levels of play and consistency that I've never been to before.

So far it's not bad, although I'm going through the cycle a little bit right now. Last week in leagues, I missed a ball. It was the first ball I missed in a couple of weeks in both leagues I play. That miss was only the beginning, then I missed more balls and started falling into a mini-slump. Which is understandable because I have had NO time to practice lately. So yesterday, instead of riding this slump out, I went and practiced the basics. First, making sure my stroke was good, then making sure my aim (eye position) was good, then working on simple position patterns and safeties, next thing you know I am back on track.

Thanks to all for your help and I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this approach.

Cheers,
RC
 
There are 3 different purposes for practice.
1. Learning. this is used to incorporate new ideas into your game
2. Repair. Fixing problems in your game play
3. Repetition. Maintaining your game

Most players start with number 1, progress to 2, then 3, and occasionally going back to 2 when necessary. Knowing how the practice cycle works, and where you are in the cycle, makes it a little easier to determine your approach to a practice session.
Steve
 
The basics is the most important thing to work on. I think it is a very good approach. Whenever I see a new pool instructional book I go straight to the 1st chapter to see if there are a any nuggets of information on fundamentals.
 
Spend more time with #2. The biggest factor in inconsistency is inconsistent mechanics. The second biggest factor is poor concentration or focus. Sometimes they trade places or attack in unison.:)
 
Yea i agree if your fix your problems then you will be able to move on to better things but if your mechanics are off you probally wont do too much good like when i first started out i was doing trickshots and i got decent at them but i realized that it still didnt help me any with the regular game that much at all you gotta perfect the stroke first i think ... but thats just my oppinion because u can be good but an inconsistant stroke will hold you back

i hope my advise helps it looks like some people are saying the same thing


marwan
 
pooltchr said:
There are 3 different purposes for practice.
1. Learning. this is used to incorporate new ideas into your game
2. Repair. Fixing problems in your game play
3. Repetition. Maintaining your game

Most players start with number 1, progress to 2, then 3, and occasionally going back to 2 when necessary. Knowing how the practice cycle works, and where you are in the cycle, makes it a little easier to determine your approach to a practice session.
Steve
Click to expand...
Good advice. Right now I'm stuck at number 2, working hard at developing a precise and repeatable stroke. I'm making tiny adjustments here and there and trying new things on for size. Some nights everything clicks and I just can't miss. Other nights I'm very aware of my little adjustments and they seem like huge adjustments.:)

I'm still waiting for that day when I'll finally stop tinkering and everything will just click. Should only be another 25 years or so.:D
 
Klopek said:
Good advice. Right now I'm stuck at number 2, working hard at developing a precise and repeatable stroke. I'm making tiny adjustments here and there and trying new things on for size. Some nights everything clicks and I just can't miss. Other nights I'm very aware of my little adjustments and they seem like huge adjustments.:)

I'm still waiting for that day when I'll finally stop tinkering and everything will just click. Should only be another 25 years or so.:D
Click to expand...

The real key is to separate practice from play. If you practice and focus on the fundamentals, they are going to become a natural part of your game. You can't think about them when you are playing. Be aware of them, yes, but don't focus on them during a match. Practice time is repair time...playtime is SHOWTIME!!
Steve
 
sixpack said:
A few months ago, I posted a thread about taking it to the next level. I was frustrated because I was playing well, even great, but not to my potential.

Anyway, I received a lot of good replies and generous offers of help which ultimately led me to some thinking.

I was thinking about what I do when I play well, and I identified the following cycle in my game.
1) can't play for crap
2) back to basics, practice stroke, aim, stance, break, strategy etc...
3) start playing good, focusing well, good safeties, winning almost every game/match
4) start playing so good it's unbelievable, running multiple racks, dominating opponents.
5) playing so good that I feel like I can't miss and start making 'hero' shots. win more than my share.
6) start missing hero shots, but still keep trying them. Don't win much.
7) try to focus on basics while playing, but not quite there. Hardly ever win.
8) can't play for crap. Never win. go to #1)

So, the bottom line is that I'm stuck in a cycle which sometimes has me playing great and sometimes has me playing like a chump.

After thinking about this for a while. Once it was laid out, it really didn't take much thought. As they say, describing the problem accurately is the biggest step towards solving it.

The reality is, I practice hard when my game is on tilt, get it back in shape and then coast until it's an emergency again, then start all over. In short, I don't practice to get better, I practice to get the same. That's not how I have always seen myself as a player and it is pretty humbling to me.

I have adjusted my practice and approach to incorporate basics into every practice session. I have also incorporated basic strategy sessions. I find that when I start making hero shots, I play loose position...which is how I put myself in positions to make hero shots.

So instead of going 'back to basics' to get back to my same level, I'm thinking of it in terms of 'mastering' basics to get to levels of play and consistency that I've never been to before.

So far it's not bad, although I'm going through the cycle a little bit right now. Last week in leagues, I missed a ball. It was the first ball I missed in a couple of weeks in both leagues I play. That miss was only the beginning, then I missed more balls and started falling into a mini-slump. Which is understandable because I have had NO time to practice lately. So yesterday, instead of riding this slump out, I went and practiced the basics. First, making sure my stroke was good, then making sure my aim (eye position) was good, then working on simple position patterns and safeties, next thing you know I am back on track.

Thanks to all for your help and I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this approach.

Cheers,
RC
Click to expand...

Here's some concerns I have; Comments in CAPS, your words not in caps.

1. even great, but not to my potential, IN READING YOUR WHOLE THREAD, I PICKED A FEW LINES I FOUND 'TELLING'. HERE YOU SOUND LIKE YOU EXPECT SOMETHING FOR YOUR EFFORTS, GREAT PLAYERS EXPECT NOTHING BUT PUT FORTH THE EFFORT IN HOPES OF IMPROVING, AND MOST GREAT PLAYERS NEVER EXPECTED ANYTHING, THEY JUST GOT BETTER BECAUSE THEY ENJOYED PLAYING, LEARNING AND DISLIKE LOSING.
2. can't play for crap, WARMING UP IS, WARMING UP, SOUNDS LIKE YOU AGAIN "EXPECT" YOU SHOULD PLAY PERFECT RIGHT OFF, WHY DO YOU FEEL THIS WAY?
3. start playing so good it's unbelievable, UNBELIEVABLE, TO WHOM (EGO)AND WHY IS GREAT PLAYING HARD TO ACCEPT, BECAUSE YOU "KNOW" EVENTUALLY WON'T?
4. start making 'hero' shots, I FEEL THE EGO THING COMING INTO PLAY HERE VERY TELLING , YOUR NOT PLAYING TO WIN, YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING ELSE, WHY?
5. start missing hero shots, but still keep trying them, THIS 'HERO' EXPRESSION, WHAT'S THAT ALL ABOUT?
6. I practice hard when my game is on tilt, SO YOU CHANGE YOUR EFFORT ACCORDING TO RESULTS, HUMM, PACING YOURSELF MAKES IT ALLOT EASIER TO SPOT A FLAW, REPITITION HELPS FIND ERRORS AND SUCCESSES.
7. and then coast YOUR SLACKING, WHY? UP/DOWN/UP/DOWN, LOOK AT YOUR PERSONAL WORK/LIFE ETHICS, DO THEY PARALLEL YOUR GAME?
8. It was the first ball I missed in a couple of weeks in both leagues I play, MISSES AND MISTAKES IN LIFE ARE "OUR" TEACHERS, WHY DO YOU THINK A MISS IS A BAD THING, OR BETTER YET WHY DO YOU THINK YOU SHOULD NOT MISS?
I feel like the problems you're having are more attitude and how you believe/percieve the world "should" be instead of accepting how it is and moving forward. It sounds like you have good potential, but your expectations and thought process need attention. It would be like playing HS basketball and expecting to make it to the pros. From the beginning of play to getting better at pool or any sport, ones personality strengths and weaknesses surface, the greats see that, realize what they are, fix them and move on, others complain while trying to get better. This game will make a man out of ya if you let it. I don't know of anyone who hasn't needed help in life to get better, its just who's willing to listen, either it be listening to yourself or your teacher.
I hope this helps you out, sometimes the biggest obstacle in life is ourselves and realizing that is huge.
 
In my humble opinion, I think your biggest problem is the practice of defining what stage you happen to be in. See, I rarely, if ever, define my level of play (unless absolutely spectacular or incredibly ugly). It's not that I don't care. It's just that I'm going to get up there, play my heart out and see what happens. I don't pay attention to runs. I don't count run-outs. I don't dwell on missed shots. I wake-up every day knowing it will be different than yesterday and that could be good or bad.

I think you're thinking too much.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
In my humble opinion, I think your biggest problem is the practice of defining what stage you happen to be in. See, I rarely, if ever, define my level of play (unless absolutely spectacular or incredibly ugly). It's not that I don't care. It's just that I'm going to get up there, play my heart out and see what happens. I don't pay attention to runs. I don't count run-outs. I don't dwell on missed shots. I wake-up every day knowing it will be different than yesterday and that could be good or bad.

I think you're thinking too much.
Click to expand...

LOL - I don't think I ever thought about it until I started reading this board. :) I just played.

You could be on to something.

Cheers,
RC
 
pooltchr said:
There are 3 different purposes for practice.
1. Learning. this is used to incorporate new ideas into your game
2. Repair. Fixing problems in your game play
3. Repetition. Maintaining your game

Most players start with number 1, progress to 2, then 3, and occasionally going back to 2 when necessary. Knowing how the practice cycle works, and where you are in the cycle, makes it a little easier to determine your approach to a practice session.
Steve
Click to expand...

Interesting. What % do you recommend for different levels of players?

Cheers,
RC
 
sixpack said:
LOL - I don't think I ever thought about it until I started reading this board. :) I just played.

You could be on to something.

Cheers,
RC
Click to expand...


Don't get me wrong, I still practice. I still do some evaluating but much of that happens when I'm not competing.

When you compete, I think it's important to stay in the moment. Don't think about how well you played yesterday or who would happen if you win. Just think about what you need to do right now (which is either sit or get up and hit the ball).

I think the common collegiate-style approach to learning pool will hinder most, especially on a psychological level. Play for the exact same reason why a kid plays ball; because it's fun. Why hit a homerun? It's fun. Why steal second? It's fun. Why break and run-out? It's fun.
 
ID - Not sure I understood all of your points. My comments in color:

Island Drive said:
Here's some concerns I have; Comments in CAPS, your words not in caps.

1. even great, but not to my potential, IN READING YOUR WHOLE THREAD, I PICKED A FEW LINES I FOUND 'TELLING'. HERE YOU SOUND LIKE YOU EXPECT SOMETHING FOR YOUR EFFORTS, GREAT PLAYERS EXPECT NOTHING BUT PUT FORTH THE EFFORT IN HOPES OF IMPROVING, AND MOST GREAT PLAYERS NEVER EXPECTED ANYTHING, THEY JUST GOT BETTER BECAUSE THEY ENJOYED PLAYING, LEARNING AND DISLIKE LOSING.
I know how I can play. I expect to play well. I expect to win. I don't know any great players who don't.

2. can't play for crap, WARMING UP IS, WARMING UP, SOUNDS LIKE YOU AGAIN "EXPECT" YOU SHOULD PLAY PERFECT RIGHT OFF, WHY DO YOU FEEL THIS WAY?
I'm talking about being in a slump here. This cycle takes months, I'm not talking about this all happening in a night. Warming up isn't an issue.

3. start playing so good it's unbelievable, UNBELIEVABLE, TO WHOM (EGO)AND WHY IS GREAT PLAYING HARD TO ACCEPT, BECAUSE YOU "KNOW" EVENTUALLY WON'T?
That's an excellent question. If it's truly unbelievable to me, then no wonder I can't keep it up. What I thought I was saying is that I've done some things on a pool table, that I don't bother telling people who didn't see it because they won't believe it anyway. I need to do some thinking on this.

4. start making 'hero' shots, I FEEL THE EGO THING COMING INTO PLAY HERE VERY TELLING , YOUR NOT PLAYING TO WIN, YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING ELSE, WHY?
Yep, it's ego. That's exactly my point.

5. start missing hero shots, but still keep trying them, THIS 'HERO' EXPRESSION, WHAT'S THAT ALL ABOUT?
Hero shots is a common expression in golf or pool meaning that you try shots with little chance of success because you want to be a hero and pull it off. Basically because you remember that one time you made that masse etc...

6. I practice hard when my game is on tilt, SO YOU CHANGE YOUR EFFORT ACCORDING TO RESULTS, HUMM, PACING YOURSELF MAKES IT ALLOT EASIER TO SPOT A FLAW, REPITITION HELPS FIND ERRORS AND SUCCESSES.
If I'm playing bad, I practice the basics - hard, that's the whole point of my post.

7. and then coast YOUR SLACKING, WHY? UP/DOWN/UP/DOWN, LOOK AT YOUR PERSONAL WORK/LIFE ETHICS, DO THEY PARALLEL YOUR GAME?
No. I think it's more that when I'm performing well, I don't spend the time to practice. Practice time for pool is always at a premium for me because of how busy I am. When I'm performing poorly on leagues etc... then I make time to practice.

8. It was the first ball I missed in a couple of weeks in both leagues I play, MISSES AND MISTAKES IN LIFE ARE "OUR" TEACHERS, WHY DO YOU THINK A MISS IS A BAD THING, OR BETTER YET WHY DO YOU THINK YOU SHOULD NOT MISS?
Yes, I think misses are bad.

I feel like the problems you're having are more attitude and how you believe/percieve the world "should" be instead of accepting how it is and moving forward. It sounds like you have good potential, but your expectations and thought process need attention. It would be like playing HS basketball and expecting to make it to the pros. From the beginning of play to getting better at pool or any sport, ones personality strengths and weaknesses surface, the greats see that, realize what they are, fix them and move on, others complain while trying to get better. This game will make a man out of ya if you let it. I don't know of anyone who hasn't needed help in life to get better, its just who's willing to listen, either it be listening to yourself or your teacher.
I hope this helps you out, sometimes the biggest obstacle in life is ourselves and realizing that is huge.
Click to expand...

Not sure what your point is here. I am not 'whining.' I am sharing something I thought was interesting with the forum. I'm not a HS player, nor am I a pro. I am perfectly aware of where I am. I think my thought process needs attention too, that's why I posted this thread.

As for being a man, I'm just fine on that, but thanks for your concern.

Cheers,
RC
 
sixpack said:
ID - Not sure I understood all of your points. My comments in color:



Not sure what your point is here. I am not 'whining.' I am sharing something I thought was interesting with the forum. I'm not a HS player, nor am I a pro. I am perfectly aware of where I am. I think my thought process needs attention too, that's why I posted this thread.

As for being a man, I'm just fine on that, but thanks for your concern.

Cheers,
RC
Click to expand...
RC, I know its near impossible to understand where another's coming from through the key board, and I appreciate your responses. I've just seen so many people expect something, or better yet set their goals too high from the beginning. I'm sure there are many instructors out there that have had students think if they just get that majic word or system or whatever or just being in the instructors presence they'll get better. I have had only a handful of people I've taught over the years (maybe more) but my point is the ones that did improve, put in allot of time and learning. One expression is "let it happen" and since whitey never lies the beauty of this game is within your mistake or miss lies the answer. If your playing a match and everything is going great and then one shot comes along where you miss or get such terrible shape etc. and it all turns to ***t within that shot lies that answer and if you can figure that out, only then can you move forward. I have seen sooooooooooooo many people say why they missed a shot, but they gave the wrong answer, its sad to see this but its the foundation as to why they will not get better. If you work too much and your tired when playing then by expecting allot is unfair to yourself. When your blood sugar or your sleep are out of wack, this game can bring out the Jeckyl/Hyde in us all. This game has humbled us all and they more we play the more we grow. I'm gonna go to the back table now and hit some balls. Was good talking. IsDr
 
Island Drive said:
RC, I know its near impossible to understand where another's coming from through the key board, and I appreciate your responses. I've just seen so many people expect something, or better yet set their goals too high from the beginning. I'm sure there are many instructors out there that have had students think if they just get that majic word or system or whatever or just being in the instructors presence they'll get better. I have had only a handful of people I've taught over the years (maybe more) but my point is the ones that did improve, put in allot of time and learning. One expression is "let it happen" and since whitey never lies the beauty of this game is within your mistake or miss lies the answer. If your playing a match and everything is going great and then one shot comes along where you miss or get such terrible shape etc. and it all turns to ***t within that shot lies that answer and if you can figure that out, only then can you move forward. I have seen sooooooooooooo many people say why they missed a shot, but they gave the wrong answer, its sad to see this but its the foundation as to why they will not get better. If you work too much and your tired when playing then by expecting allot is unfair to yourself. When your blood sugar or your sleep are out of wack, this game can bring out the Jeckyl/Hyde in us all. This game has humbled us all and they more we play the more we grow. I'm gonna go to the back table now and hit some balls. Was good talking. IsDr
Click to expand...

You're right on. I think we both misunderstood a little. Thanks for your insight, some of them probably hit closer to home than was comfortable.

I do analyze misses and I do recognize that I'm human, but I also expect a lot out of my game. That expectation helps me perform at the level I do without much practice. The problem with that is that when the expectation falters, the game goes with it, so missing a shot or being stupid can cascade into the next one.

Cheers,
RC
 
pooltchr said:
The real key is to separate practice from play. If you practice and focus on the fundamentals, they are going to become a natural part of your game. You can't think about them when you are playing. Be aware of them, yes, but don't focus on them during a match. Practice time is repair time...playtime is SHOWTIME!!
Steve
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice. :) I know you're 100% correct, but I only get about 3-4 hours on a table per week these days and don't get much chance for drills. About a year ago I spent 30+ hrs per week on a table by myself and really did the majority of the legwork, now I'm just fine tuning. I play consistently overall, but once in a while I'll surprise myself by missing a shot I thought was a total gimme. I chalk that up to over confidence or lack of concentration more than fundamentals because I'll follow it up with a table length thin cut I thought was impossible. The work is never done though, cause I always slip back into bad habits and have to get back to level again. :)

IMHO, the key is to never think of yourself as a finished product but rather a lifelong work in progress.:)
 
Klopek said:
Thanks for the advice. :) I know you're 100% correct, but I only get about 3-4 hours on a table per week these days and don't get much chance for drills. About a year ago I spent 30+ hrs per week on a table by myself and really did the majority of the legwork, now I'm just fine tuning. I play consistently overall, but once in a while I'll surprise myself by missing a shot I thought was a total gimme. I chalk that up to over confidence or lack of concentration more than fundamentals because I'll follow it up with a table length thin cut I thought was impossible. The work is never done though, cause I always slip back into bad habits and have to get back to level again. :)

IMHO, the key is to never think of yourself as a finished product but rather a lifelong work in progress.:)
Click to expand...

The amount of table time doesn't matter. Dedicate about 20% of whatever time you have each week for practice, and keep the other 80% to play. It breaks down to only 12 minutes per hour. When you go into a pool room, take 10 minutes to practice and then play for an hour. You don't need an hour to practice, and you can break up practice time. My practice routine takes me anywhere from 10 to 20 minutes, depending on what I need to work on. The point is, if you don't get in any practice time, you aren't going to improve. A little here and a little there can make a big difference.
Steve
 
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