Back to popping the CB on the break

B

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
A few months ago I started a thread about popping the CB on the break, i.e. hitting slightly down on the CB which gives it a little more lift and results in the CB "popping" approx. 4-6" above the slate after impact with the headball.

On the advice of many AZers, I went back to a more level stroke that keeps the CB on the surface.

But it just wasn't working: not as much scatter, more CB scratches and fewer balls made on the break. Last week I went back to popping the CB and viola...better breaks every time.

My own theory is that the "popping" has nothing to do with the improved quality of the break. It's the bridge/stance/stroke I use when popping that results in a better break. The bridge is an elevated, closed bridge that just feels more solid than a level, closed bridge. And for some reason, the elevated bridge allows me to get my body in better timing to deliver the stroke with more power.

The one improvement that I do think is directly related to popping is the reduction of CB scratches. With the popping break I never have the CB rifle into a side pocket or back to me in a corner pocket. It goes up, then comes back down and pretty much stays there until/unless another ball comes along and hits it.
 
bdorman said:
A few months ago I started a thread about popping the CB on the break, i.e. hitting slightly down on the CB which gives it a little more lift and results in the CB "popping" approx. 4-6" above the slate after impact with the headball.

On the advice of many AZers, I went back to a more level stroke that keeps the CB on the surface.

But it just wasn't working: not as much scatter, more CB scratches and fewer balls made on the break. Last week I went back to popping the CB and viola...better breaks every time.

My own theory is that the "popping" has nothing to do with the improved quality of the break. It's the bridge/stance/stroke I use when popping that results in a better break. The bridge is an elevated, closed bridge that just feels more solid than a level, closed bridge. And for some reason, the elevated bridge allows me to get my body in better timing to deliver the stroke with more power.

The one improvement that I do think is directly related to popping is the reduction of CB scratches. With the popping break I never have the CB rifle into a side pocket or back to me in a corner pocket. It goes up, then comes back down and pretty much stays there until/unless another ball comes along and hits it.
Click to expand...


Awesome, I also like popping the cue ball on the break, seems more controlled than trying to break differently and not knowing where the cue ball will end up. I just have one question, where are you breaking from when popping the cue ball? I mostly break from the side but when that's not working I break from the box, but that doesn't help popping the cue ball as much as breaking from the long rail.
 
bdorman said:
A few months ago I started a thread about popping the CB on the break, i.e. hitting slightly down on the CB which gives it a little more lift and results in the CB "popping" approx. 4-6" above the slate after impact with the headball.

On the advice of many AZers, I went back to a more level stroke that keeps the CB on the surface.

But it just wasn't working: not as much scatter, more CB scratches and fewer balls made on the break. Last week I went back to popping the CB and viola...better breaks every time.

My own theory is that the "popping" has nothing to do with the improved quality of the break. It's the bridge/stance/stroke I use when popping that results in a better break. The bridge is an elevated, closed bridge that just feels more solid than a level, closed bridge. And for some reason, the elevated bridge allows me to get my body in better timing to deliver the stroke with more power.

The one improvement that I do think is directly related to popping is the reduction of CB scratches. With the popping break I never have the CB rifle into a side pocket or back to me in a corner pocket. It goes up, then comes back down and pretty much stays there until/unless another ball comes along and hits it.
Click to expand...

I agree with this type of break. I like it best myself. I started doing unintentionally and it stayed with me for a while. I haven't been able to do it for a while and it must have to do with the cue being more level. I break much better and get better results when popping it like this. SVB talked about that very style not too long ago. I remember him liking this as well from the conversation. It can't be all bad! I need a practice session or three to get it back.
 
It has worked for me for a long time, best way to kill the cue ball dead center of the table on the snap.
 
I would think it's impossible to have a level stroke on the break (or most any shot).

I also think most people drop their elbows more on the break than other shots, because of a longer follow-through, which would result in lifting up a bit on the cue ball. So, even if you aim more down on the cue ball, you probably end up actually hitting it higher than you think.
 
bdorman said:
My own theory is that the "popping" has nothing to do with the improved quality of the break. It's the bridge/stance/stroke I use when popping that results in a better break.
Click to expand...

I think you're right.

bdorman said:
The one improvement that I do think is directly related to popping is the reduction of CB scratches. With the popping break I never have the CB rifle into a side pocket or back to me in a corner pocket.
Click to expand...

Rifling into a side pocket means you're not hitting the 1-ball full. If you made the same error, accuracy-wise, in your "pop up" break, the CB would fly off the table. Coming back to scratch in an uptable corner means you put draw on the CB, and the "pop up" break will actually counteract this; the CB contacting the 1 above the equator will remove some backspin.

-Andrew
 
BRussell said:
I would think it's impossible to have a level stroke on the break (or most any shot).
Click to expand...

This is true, because of the height of the rails, but it's possible to break with a pretty-close-to-level stroke, which doesn't result in much, if any, air-time for the CB after it hits the rack.

-Andrew
 
BRussell said:
I would think it's impossible to have a level stroke on the break (or most any shot).

I also think most people drop their elbows more on the break than other shots, because of a longer follow-through, which would result in lifting up a bit on the cue ball. So, even if you aim more down on the cue ball, you probably end up actually hitting it higher than you think.
Click to expand...

This isn't always true. I break like the OP and I grip forward on my cue. I use a pendulum stroke with no elbow drop and the same "finish" stroke as a regular shot. I've been told a few times that I have an amazing break and excellent cue ball control after the break.
 
I get the best results when I pop the cb. However, I can only do this about one out of twenty breaks. It's bizarre, the harder I try to get that ball off the table, the less effective the break. I'm trying to figure this out. Advice welcomed

Ben
 
bdorman said:
The one improvement that I do think is directly related to popping is the reduction of CB scratches.
Click to expand...
This should be the only reason why people would want to attempt 'popping' the CB. The CB going airborne at impact does nothing to improve the spread of the balls.

Another thing to think about is that maybe the CB popping is simply a symptom of a good rack (all balls frozen), and that a solid rack is really the main reason why you get good results when you observe the CB going airborne. If the rack is loose, the CB won't pop nearly as high as a good rack.
 
bdorman said:
A few months ago I started a thread about popping the CB on the break, i.e. hitting slightly down on the CB which gives it a little more lift and results in the CB "popping" approx. 4-6" above the slate after impact with the headball.

On the advice of many AZers, I went back to a more level stroke that keeps the CB on the surface.

But it just wasn't working: not as much scatter, more CB scratches and fewer balls made on the break. Last week I went back to popping the CB and viola...better breaks every time.

My own theory is that the "popping" has nothing to do with the improved quality of the break. It's the bridge/stance/stroke I use when popping that results in a better break. The bridge is an elevated, closed bridge that just feels more solid than a level, closed bridge. And for some reason, the elevated bridge allows me to get my body in better timing to deliver the stroke with more power.

The one improvement that I do think is directly related to popping is the reduction of CB scratches. With the popping break I never have the CB rifle into a side pocket or back to me in a corner pocket. It goes up, then comes back down and pretty much stays there until/unless another ball comes along and hits it.
Click to expand...
Popping the cueball is a result that many good breakers are looking for as the indicator of how they're breaking.

Someone may tell you about energy transfer, etc., but results are results. Every top breaker ends up with a pop on the break. For whatever reason. Maybe the object balls need a Z-direction to pop out of the rack. Who knows?

But, if popping the break gets the results, then pop the break.

Freddie
 
Cornerman said:
But, if popping the break gets the results, then pop the break.
Click to expand...

But the advice in this thread for getting the cue ball to pop is wrong. It's not jacking up more into the break that causes the pros to pop the cue ball. It's all cue speed for them. The interference of the rail is what causes all the jacking up needed. Maybe these guys need to learn how to release their wrist first.

So much wrong information being given in this thread makes me sick.
 
Hits 'em Hard said:
But the advice in this thread for getting the cue ball to pop is wrong. It's not jacking up more into the break that causes the pros to pop the cue ball. It's all cue speed for them.
Click to expand...
I think there are more variables to popping than merely speed.

I'm sure you've come across this video of Jeff De Luna's break (which is one of the hardest breaks ever recorded in competition). Note how very little the CB jumped in the air, despite all that CB velocity. And notice he broke close to the side rail, which means his cue was already pretty steep to begin with. Wouldn't you think with that cue angle and that velocity the CB would jump 4 feet in the air? But it didn't. So there must be more variables to popping than speed alone.
 
I'm a popper too :)
My break is far from perfect, but I have found that the SVB type of break gives me more controll than the more common break style, like Archers break.
 
Kim Bye said:
I'm a popper too :)
My break is far from perfect, but I have found that the SVB type of break gives me more controll than the more common break style, like Archers break.
Click to expand...

I'm a popper too... I like the cue ball control that goes along with the pop. Others may like something else & that doesn't bother me, it's a FREE Country.

If SVB does it, I'll try to emulate his performance, so that my game improves.

If it's wrong, sobeit, I like center table cue ball position.... period.
 
jsp said:
I think there are more variables to popping than merely speed.

I'm sure you've come across this video of Jeff De Luna's break (which is one of the hardest breaks ever recorded in competition). Note how very little the CB jumped in the air, despite all that CB velocity. And notice he broke close to the side rail, which means his cue was already pretty steep to begin with. Wouldn't you think with that cue angle and that velocity the CB would jump 4 feet in the air? But it didn't. So there must be more variables to popping than speed alone.
Click to expand...

I think the variable missing is the bounce the cue ball takes. I'm not big on popping, but I always thought the bounce of the cue ball is what dictated it. The bounce would change with cue butt elevation, or just by moving the cue ball further away from the pack.
 
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Hits 'em Hard said:
But the advice in this thread for getting the cue ball to pop is wrong..
Click to expand...

I can get the QB to pop up just by raising my bridge and back hand, back hand slightly more than bridge hand. It took me a while to figure out what I was doing to get the QB to pop up like that.
I noticed that for whatever reason I usually get a better spread when I pop the QB also. What I like best about it is that the reduced tendency for scratching, many times I see an object knock the QB in one of the pockets. I usually keep the QB within 1 diamond of the center and I put the QB right at the kitchen line when I break.
 
I recommend every player should get a breakrak if you want to learn how to break with more control and accuracy.

When I started breaking my break was slow (17mph at best) and losing the cueball with no hop. After using the breakrak I started elevating my bridge hand and hitting slightly above center, I then started to hop the cueball and control it in the center of the table.

My break I now aim real low on the cueball, and rise up as I hit the cueball making it hop and now with a consistent 22.5\23.5mph break, with control ever time, if I want to get more speed I lose control.

Tip - watch what the cueball is doing after the break.

- if it runs forwards into the rack you are hitting too high on the cueball.
- if it comes back of rack back to you are hitting too low
- goes to the right, need to aim more left and the same if goes to the left off the rack, need to aim more to the right.

But to have a consistent break, get a breakrak... It will be the best investment you will make.
 
lee brett said:
I recommend every player should get a breakrak if you want to learn how to break with more control and accuracy.

When I started breaking my break was slow (17mph at best) and losing the cueball with no hop. After using the breakrak I started elevating my bridge hand and hitting slightly above center, I then started to hop the cueball and control it in the center of the table.

My break I now aim real low on the cueball, and rise up as I hit the cueball making it hop and now with a consistent 22.5\23.5mph break, with control ever time, if I want to get more speed I lose control.

Tip - watch what the cueball is doing after the break.

- if it runs forwards into the rack you are hitting too high on the cueball.
- if it comes back of rack back to you are hitting too low
- goes to the right, need to aim more left and the same if goes to the left off the rack, need to aim more to the right.

But to have a consistent break, get a breakrak... It will be the best investment you will make.
Click to expand...

I can't elevate my bridge hand very much as I have small hands :frown:. I probably hit it 17-19 but wouldn't mind bumping that to the low 20s as long as I don't sacrifice accuracy for power. I may try to do this tonight if I go to league.
 
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