i'm not asking anyone to talk trash about any cue makers specifically but everytime someone on here asks about a cue or a cue maker i see nothing but tons of positive feedback so i was wondering if there are anythings that you all dont think so highly of. things to watch out for or cues that you dont think play well. i know its a lot of personal opinion, but they cant all be great players or well worth the money. again i'm not trying to get anyone to talk trash, but i am starting to try to figure out what i want for my first custom and i'm trying to find things to look for or things to make sure i dont get. thanks
bad custom cues?
- Thread starter nick55
- Start date
Good Luck Wit Dat
This type of thread has been attempted by newbies before (with No success).
I suggest that you go to AZ Billiard's Wanted-For Sale section and click on the top 'Sticky', titled "Buyer-Seller Transaction Report". I suspect that might answer the questions you have.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=42254
Or, ask a question in that section.
Doug
( or you might click on the word SEARCH at the top of each page and try there )
Edited to add: I'm sure that others here will disagree with my post.
.
This type of thread has been attempted by newbies before (with No success).
I suggest that you go to AZ Billiard's Wanted-For Sale section and click on the top 'Sticky', titled "Buyer-Seller Transaction Report". I suspect that might answer the questions you have.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=42254
Or, ask a question in that section.
Doug
( or you might click on the word SEARCH at the top of each page and try there )
Edited to add: I'm sure that others here will disagree with my post.
.
Last edited:
thanks for responding even if it was a bit abrasive, i know i'm a newbie here and i do know how to search, but i didnt have much luck searching this topic so i decided to post. i didnt post in the wanted/for sale section because i dont want to buy or sell anything so this seemed like a more appropriate place, sorry if it isnt the best place.
like i said before this topic wasnt for the purpose of bashing anyone or their work, but more for my own education on what to look for in a good/bad cue. everyone seems to say "see what you think feels good" and that is ok unless you are a "newbie" and havent experienced a lot of different types of custom cues. in that case there have to be some common features/factors that make up the cues that you all call good players or worth the price for what you get, and other factors that make up cues taht are over priced or dont play well
so if anyone has any input i would appreciate it, if not or if this topic is out of line then i apologize.
like i said before this topic wasnt for the purpose of bashing anyone or their work, but more for my own education on what to look for in a good/bad cue. everyone seems to say "see what you think feels good" and that is ok unless you are a "newbie" and havent experienced a lot of different types of custom cues. in that case there have to be some common features/factors that make up the cues that you all call good players or worth the price for what you get, and other factors that make up cues taht are over priced or dont play well
so if anyone has any input i would appreciate it, if not or if this topic is out of line then i apologize.
It seems only pool players are prone to developing a cue fetish.
Since a custom cue is purchased for cosmetics, not character, judgement is entirely subjective.
Nobody who paid out big bucks is going to admit that the unique creation from a rich fantasy life has become ugly with age.
For the cheaper route, think of it like customizing a car as parts become available:
Buy a cue
Change the shaft for one you want.
Put on the tip you want.
When you find a cue with a butt you like buy it and discard the shaft.
Voila - A Custom Cue
Since a custom cue is purchased for cosmetics, not character, judgement is entirely subjective.
Nobody who paid out big bucks is going to admit that the unique creation from a rich fantasy life has become ugly with age.
For the cheaper route, think of it like customizing a car as parts become available:
Buy a cue
Change the shaft for one you want.
Put on the tip you want.
When you find a cue with a butt you like buy it and discard the shaft.
Voila - A Custom Cue
For more info. just hang around this site for a while and you will learn who you will have more faith in and who you won't when buying a custom cue.
My personal opinion is that I stay away from eBay as a general rule. I also have learned who I would buy a used cue from and who I would not. I also have learned who I would be most likely to buy a new cue from.
For me it took about a month or so of reading comments and opinions on who is honest and up front with the buyer. You may develope different opinions than myself or others as you read and learn. Don't be too hasty in deciding who to buy from. Just take your time and you will form your own ideas as to who you will buy from and whether you buy new or used. Be sure to shop around for the cue you think you want and compare prices for new vs used cues. Sometimes there isn't much difference in the price between new and used. This info. will give you the understanding you will need to negoiate price with either product you choose.
My personal opinion is that I stay away from eBay as a general rule. I also have learned who I would buy a used cue from and who I would not. I also have learned who I would be most likely to buy a new cue from.
For me it took about a month or so of reading comments and opinions on who is honest and up front with the buyer. You may develope different opinions than myself or others as you read and learn. Don't be too hasty in deciding who to buy from. Just take your time and you will form your own ideas as to who you will buy from and whether you buy new or used. Be sure to shop around for the cue you think you want and compare prices for new vs used cues. Sometimes there isn't much difference in the price between new and used. This info. will give you the understanding you will need to negoiate price with either product you choose.
nick55 said:
I imagine most posters on AZ who appreciate a good playing cue will probably agree that a full-splice cue will work out well. With that in mind, do a little searching on here on that topic, and post a question in the wanted/for sale section asking about full splice cues and what it should cost to get a good playing one. You will likely be hit by several cue makers with PMs of proposals to make one for you.
There are many good names out there who'll do this.
How do I know? Because that is the path I took, and I'm glad I did.
Flex
John Barton
New member
nick55 said:
You could email the American Cuemakers Association or the International Cuemakers Association and ask them for guidance. I am sure that they have been working on some guidlelines to show people what to look for in a cue.
http://www.cuemakers.org/
http://www.internationalcuemakers.com/
A lot of these cuemakers will be happy to talk you about what makes a good cue, often in their opinion. But if they make into either of these organizations then at least that means that their work was judged and deemed acceptable by their peers. Not to say that one must be a member of either organization to be a good cuemaker, just a starting point for you.
To me a good cue is one that feels solid when I hit balls, is well balanced, and is smooth from tip to bumper. Nothing that I can feel that makes me uneasy about it. The ferrule should be flush, the joint should be flush, no dings or edges anywhere, the wrap should be smooth with no threads or bumps that shouldn't be there. The joint facing should be perfectly flat.
For looks the finish should be smooth and glassy, the wood under the finish should be stained evenly, there should be no jagged edges around the inlays or spots that were filled using off color filler. (ideally no filler spots at all, but I have seen filler used where it's perfectly blended). Inlays should be evenly spaced and symmetric.
These things apply to all cues in my opinion. All else is personal preference and hotly debated amongst players and collectors.
I have been soundly beaten by people playing with $50 Sterling Sneaky Petes, Meuccis, a $50,000 Southeast and everything in between. Conversely I have played jam up with so-called cheap cues, expensive cues and played equally bad with them as well.
The range of cues is wide and at the same time narrow. They all have about the same parameters, which is like saying all cars have a steering wheel, a motor, and wheels. But the subtleties are a lifetime pursuit for some and a lucky lifetime union for others.
It's awfully hard to buy a "bad" cue these days though. Even if you start out with domestic or overseas production models you aren't going to end up with a bad cue. It might not be as sweet as that Tim Scruggs for $2K but then everything that went into making the Scruggs didn't go into the $100 cue either.
My advice on custom is to find a maker that you can have a good rapport with and start small with him. Order something not too expensive and see how you like it - then fine tune that and offer him more work if you want to move up the decoration scale.
One thing Americans have over the rest of the world is choice. Especially in cues. While the rest of the world has some damn good cuemakers it has nowhere close to the density of makers as in the USA. From tip repair to complete cues Americans have it better than most of the players outside the USA. So take advantage of that and get on the email or phone and you will find some cuemakers that suit your needs.
thanks alot guys, i think this gives me a starting point, one more question, how about more local guys? i have seen some bigger or at least more well known names in the for sale section but how weary should i be about guys that i have never heard of? again assuming that some of their past cues feel good when hitting balls, (which i must say i havent used enough cues to quite know what feels go to me yet) as far as quality and durability do you guys ever use or buy cues from relative unknowns? thanks again for the help and opinions.
nick55 said:
If you see a cue you like and don't know the maker...just type the cuemakers name in the search block and read until your hearts content. You should seriously learn what you like before you waste time & money.
John Barton
New member
nick55 said:
I used to buy or trade for cues from "unknown" cuemakers all the time and got some of the best cues for the money ever. Mark Smith, Sherm Adamson, Roland Becker, Franz Hauber to name a few. Jacoby, Olivier before they were nationally known. Nova, Nubs Wagner. The list is long.
Like I said earlier it's hard to buy a bad cue. If you are looking for something that will hold it's "price" then maybe you want to stick with a "name" cue but even then it's a gamble. At this point you should be buying for playability rather than monetary investment. The cost to you is mostly time right now to find someone you are comfortable with.
You can also go to http://www.easypooltutor.com/cuemakers.html They have a cue makers list from all over the world. Pick a country and then pick a state then a city. Or you can do this by name or initial. They also have a counter on the cue makers name to give you an indication of how many hits the cue makers site has had. This also gives you a sense of how popular the cue maker is. Hope this helps you.
Flex said:
you're right about one thing, that it's just you imagination talking.....
FEI, being a full splice cue doesn't mean it will play better than any other type construction method cue and anyone who knows cues would know this. that's a MAJOR misconception. there are bad playing cues that have been full spliced, short spliced, inlaid, no inlay ect..... as much as there are good ones. it's all about the maker and how they construct their work. one of the biggest issues in the playability of cues is too many don't know and couldn't tell the difference anyway. it can be a chore but if you want to know who makes a consistent, great playing cue you have to either fall into someone who "knows", which may include everyone on this forum
, or find out for yourself by playing with different cues.
The Woim
Banned
It's Risky Buying a Custom Cue!
I concur wholly that it's pretty risky buying a custom cue. You plunk down good hard earned money and wait from several weeks to many years and you could get a stick that's a dud. I won't name names but a great cuemaker who I respect and trust intuitively and without qualification was trying to "improve" the very mushy hit of a high end maker. The high end guy's price tag is generally in the mid 3's. After many attempts, the trusted cuemaker could not make the high end con hit properly. The cue was a beautiful dud.
So, what next? Imagine paying 3 G's and waiting a year to three years for a cue that's a total dud?
I think we should completely punk out the bad cuemakers. I mean that.
And I must add here that I'm a custom cue kinda guy. I think playing with a production cue is a slap in the face to this great parlor room board game that we all love so much.
Buying a custom cue is in the reach of all of us. I know a nice elderly lady who bought a used Mike Webb for $750 and the think had a solid hit like a steel rod. And it looks great too, (pssst, nice work Mike).
Jeff Olney cues are phenomenol.
I trust John Madden completely and without qualification. I guarantee he'd make a cue that a player would love.
Sugartree cues are great also.
Mike Zimmerman in O'Fallon, IL makes great cues for a great price too!
There are dozens of legends and I can't go into reading off a litany of names here - we all know who they are.
A custom cue is in the reach of all of us. Just stupid excuses are what stands in the way.
Me? I'll never play with a production ever again. Sure, if some newbie comes up to me and says "Mr. Woim, is my cue in good working order?" Yeah, I'll take a few swings with it. Then I'll hand it back to the kid and say "Don't be discouraged if you can't run hundreds right away with that cue, son. Only The Woim can do that."
Buying and playing with a custom cue is a way of showing your respect for the great poolplayers who have gone before you.
The Woim
I concur wholly that it's pretty risky buying a custom cue. You plunk down good hard earned money and wait from several weeks to many years and you could get a stick that's a dud. I won't name names but a great cuemaker who I respect and trust intuitively and without qualification was trying to "improve" the very mushy hit of a high end maker. The high end guy's price tag is generally in the mid 3's. After many attempts, the trusted cuemaker could not make the high end con hit properly. The cue was a beautiful dud.
So, what next? Imagine paying 3 G's and waiting a year to three years for a cue that's a total dud?
I think we should completely punk out the bad cuemakers. I mean that.
And I must add here that I'm a custom cue kinda guy. I think playing with a production cue is a slap in the face to this great parlor room board game that we all love so much.
Buying a custom cue is in the reach of all of us. I know a nice elderly lady who bought a used Mike Webb for $750 and the think had a solid hit like a steel rod. And it looks great too, (pssst, nice work Mike).
Jeff Olney cues are phenomenol.
I trust John Madden completely and without qualification. I guarantee he'd make a cue that a player would love.
Sugartree cues are great also.
Mike Zimmerman in O'Fallon, IL makes great cues for a great price too!
There are dozens of legends and I can't go into reading off a litany of names here - we all know who they are.
A custom cue is in the reach of all of us. Just stupid excuses are what stands in the way.
Me? I'll never play with a production ever again. Sure, if some newbie comes up to me and says "Mr. Woim, is my cue in good working order?" Yeah, I'll take a few swings with it. Then I'll hand it back to the kid and say "Don't be discouraged if you can't run hundreds right away with that cue, son. Only The Woim can do that."
Buying and playing with a custom cue is a way of showing your respect for the great poolplayers who have gone before you.
The Woim
skins said:you're right about one thing, that it's just you imagination talking.....
While you may be correct about your assertion, I have my doubts. I've owned at least five different full spliced cues, none of them particularly pricey, and the hit and feel and playability of each one is or was great. I've also had a number of other cues that were not full spliced, and none of them compared with the hit and feel of the full spliced ones. Perhaps my experience with these cues is not representative of every full splice cue out there, but if my experience has been at all representative of many, many others, I can wholeheartedly recommend them.
I've also played with any number of custom cues, which were fine. However, as far as hit and feel goes, I'd take any one of the full splice cues I've had over those other cues. Maybe I'm just dumb, or haven't a clue about cues, but certainly cuemakers like Burton Spain and others wouldn't fit in those categories.
Obviously, if someone gets a poorly made cue, full splice or otherwise, nobody will expect it to play worth a darn.
If you haven't already, you ought to check out Schmelke's full splice cues. They are great players for the money, and I can assure you I'm not the only person on AZ who thinks that.
Flex
nick - check out this thread. this will put you in the right direction.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=70320&highlight=scruggs
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=70320&highlight=scruggs
You could buy one of the customs from fifty or even a hundred cue makers that will probably suit you. Or........ you could buy one of the 1,234,645,721,389,091,000 "one of one" Dale Perry's. These trillion cues may be worth trillions in a hundred years if you have your certificate of authenticity with it.
crawfish said:
Test hit with a custom cue if you can. Look at resale all so what moves good and what does not ,If u look for what is good to others then trying one out for self .I will put in a lot of money for a custom junk cue .From some guy the just put vues together and not makes them from the heart.
Good cue makers to me and this is just my 2 cents .Andy gilbert .Kenny murrell .Aril carmelli,Paul Hairston.Tim sruggs.And Pall Mottey.
just my 2 cents.
But there are production cues that play just as good or better. Fury ,schon, Mezz cue ..
great hitting but youll be the one to put in the time and the money .
good Luck happy hunting..