Balance Point

[tonythetiger583]

I noticed when I was working on my stroke with a mirror, that my back arm is choked up, and nowhere near perpendicular with the floor. I'm 6ft 2 with decently long arms. I tried moving my arm back till it was perpendicular with the floor and I put a piece of tape there, to know where to grip.

It makes my arm sore playing like this. And I can't double check my arm all the time. When I shoot normally, my hand finds the automatic balance point. I think it has a lot to do with my HXT being a production cue, and it's 20 oz with a 4oz weight bolt in the back.

I just want to know if I should be aspiring to have a cue, with a natural balance point that allows my arm to naturally be perpendicular with the floor?

Is there any way I can accomplish this via exchanging weight bolts in the back.

There is about a 4.5 inch difference with where I naturally want to grip the cue, and where I should be gripping the cue. But I'm scared of the idea of playing with a 16ounce cue (My cue doesn't even feel like 20 oz as it is).

 

[thomba02]

You might want to try a longer cue. I'm 6'3 and switch to a longer cue, which helped my game quite a bit.

 

[tonythetiger583]

You might want to try a longer cue. I'm 6'3 and switch to a longer cue, which helped my game quite a bit.

I tried playing with a Balance Rite, but it didn't really solve the problem. I think it fixed my stroke, but there was about 2 ft of cue just dangling behind me, and it prevented me from behing able to play pool on certain tables on league night (space issues).

 

[tonythetiger583]

I don't really know how changing the bolts effects the balance points.

I tried putting a role of tape higher and higher on my cue until I found a balance point I liked. And I think in order to shift my grip hand to the desired location, I need to move the balance point up about 2-2.5 inches.

I don't know if this could be solved by removing 2 oz's from my cue. I remember changing the balance point by an inch by removing a 1 oz bolt, but I'm not sure it scales that way.

 

[victorl]

Heavier bolt moves the balance point back, lighter bolt moves it forward.
And you shouldn't be holding the cue at the balance point, but well behind it.

This might help:
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/cue.html#balance

 

[tonythetiger583]

Heavier bolt moves the balance point back, lighter bolt moves it forward.
And you shouldn't be holding the cue at the balance point, but well behind it.

This might help:
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/cue.html#balance

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm not holding it on the actual balance point. But my grip location is directly influenced by where my cue's balance point is.

And I understand the theory between heavier and lighter bolts. By I want to know the actual numbers. How far forward would the balance point move if I took of 1oz, 2 oz, 3 oz. Will it be one inch, two or 3?

 

[Cross]

what is the current balance point of your cue ?

in my experience, 1 oz of weight taken off the butt part moved the balance point about 1/2 inch forward. ( I think this may vary from cue to cue)

you can also try getting a slightly heavier shaft to "move" the balance point. I tried a .4oz heavier shaft once and it also moved my balance point approx 1/2 inch forward.


also, how far down is the slot of the weightbolt? i took out the weightbolt of my mezz cue once and measured how far down the slot is. Turns out, it extended onto the bottom part of the handle ( not all the way thru but deeper than I thought). I then had a machine shop remove the head of the weightbolt so the bolt would screw deeper in the slot thus not putting all the weight solely on the butt of the cue. If you go this route, make sure to have someone put a "slot" on top of the headless bolt so you will have something the screwdriver will bite into

goodluck

 

[tonythetiger583]

what is the current balance point of your cue ?

in my experience, 1 oz of weight taken off the butt part moved the balance point about 1/2 inch forward. ( I think this may vary from cue to cue)

you can also try getting a slightly heavier shaft to "move" the balance point. I tried a .4oz heavier shaft once and it also moved my balance point approx 1/2 inch forward.


also, how far down is the slot of the weightbolt? i took out the weightbolt of my mezz cue once and measured how far down the slot is. Turns out, it extended onto the bottom part of the handle ( not all the way thru but deeper than I thought). I then had a machine shop remove the head of the weightbolt so the bolt would screw deeper in the slot thus not putting all the weight solely on the butt of the cue. If you go this route, make sure to have someone put a "slot" on top of the headless bolt so you will have something the screwdriver will bite into

goodluck

The cue is a 20 ounce cue with a 4 oz weight bolt
Full cue, the balance point is exactly where the top of the wrap ends
Just the butt, the balance point is 5 inches from the top of the wrap.

I want to move the balance point forward enough, to move my hand about 3-4 inches back.

 

[maha]

before you start messing with the cue see if moving your body position will find the spot where you can have a level stroke. likely you are out of balance now.

 

[ENGLISH!]

If I were you I'd stop worrying about it specifically unless you're going to change cues or have a custom cue made.

From what I read, if I were you I would remove the weight bolt completely. Then if it still feels like it is balanced too far back perhaps add a piece of lead tape at the joint area. Just wrap one layer around it & feel the cue. If it's still too far back warp another layer around right next to the other one. Do this until you find the feel you like & then measure the balance point from the tip & bumper ends & you will know where you like that balance point when shopping for another cue or should you get a custom cue made.

I never think about where I'm holding the cue & I know that I hold it all over the place depending on the shot at hand. Sometimes I'm back at the bumper end & other times I'm right up behind the balance point. My linen wrap is evenly 'soiled' & that is how it should be IMO.

Good Luck with It & Shoot Well,
Rick

PS You can get lead tape in most golf or tennis sections of Sports stores or even Walmart.

 

[slide13]

I want to move the balance point forward enough, to move my hand about 3-4 inches back.

I don't get the logic here. Why would moving the balance point forward cause your grip to move back? I think it would be the opposite. I like a forward balance cue so when I have a more rear balanced cue in my hand I want to slide my grip back to the effective feel of the balance point is the same distance from my grip. This means more forward balance, more forward grip.

 

[ENGLISH!]

The cue is a 20 ounce cue with a 4 oz weight bolt
Full cue, the balance point is exactly where the top of the wrap ends
Just the butt, the balance point is 5 inches from the top of the wrap.

I want to move the balance point forward enough, to move my hand about 3-4 inches back.

Sorry, I just noticed that you have a 4 oz weight bolt so I would sort of reverse my earlier process.

But I don't understand why you want to move the weight forward so you can move your hand back. That seems backwards.

I still would remove the weight bolt & check the balance point. Then perhaps add a 2 oz bolt to get the cue to 18 oz & then do the lead tape thing like I said before.

I don't think you're going to get what you want & keep that cue at 20 oz. You may need to go cue shopping or go custom. Does the cue have a steel joint? You may want to go in that direction.

Again, Good Luck,
Rick

 

[DAVE_M]

You play where you feel comfortable.

There is no right or wrong hand placement. It will typically vary with different shots.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I just wanted to add that I not long ago picked up a OB Pro shaft that was 30" instead of the 29" ones that I had. It moved the balance point a bit more forward & I actually liked it.

 

[randyg]

You play where you feel comfortable.

There is no right or wrong hand placement. It will typically vary with different shots.

Yes Dave, there is a right and wrong back hand placement.

And yes it varies from player to player. Long arms, short bridges
different shots ect.

Most of us try to play at 90 degrees to the cue when our cue tip is at the cue ball. This would be our Standard position.

randyg

 

[thomba02]

Simply put: if the cue ball does what you want it to do, hand placement is a non issue. It's weird that you get a sore arm though. Maybe do some push-ups? This game requires more fitness than most people think.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

The cue is a 20 ounce cue with a 4 oz weight bolt
Full cue, the balance point is exactly where the top of the wrap ends
Just the butt, the balance point is 5 inches from the top of the wrap.

I want to move the balance point forward enough, to move my hand about 3-4 inches back.

This sounds backward. If you want to move your hand back, why would you move the balance point forward? That would change the feel more than moving your hand without any balance point change.

pj
chgo

 

[ENGLISH!]

Tony,

I re-read your initial post after seeing some of the comments with a different focus.

Are you aspiring to using a certain same bridge length from the CB & if so how far.

Also from what I've read with that different focus, you seem to be a pusher of the cue in what probably is a more piston motion than a pendulum motion.

IMO there is nothing wrong with that & your cue & tip may be moving in a very good line. If you hold the cue farther back you will become a puller of the cue at least for the 1st. part of the forward stroke. That may be what is causing a sore arm as you are using a different muscle group.

You may or may not actually want to make the change you are thinking about. Like a mechanic friend of my Dad's would say, 'If it ain't broken don't fix it.'

Just some food for thought,
Rick

 

[Cardigan Kid]

On an accustats dvd from last years Derby, Ralf souquet vs Carlo Biado. Ralf was playing and the commentators discuss that loose bracelet he wears on his grip hand. It's part of his system of knowing when his forearm is directly perpendicular to the floor, because gravity let's the bracelet fall evenly around his wrist.

You can see him, on various bridge lengths and setups, adjusting his grip hand back or forth and feeling the bracelet.

I don't think the balance point has anything to do with it, it's just at address of tip at cue ball, forearm perpendicular. If that takes your hand off the wrap (like Shane) so be it. Also an extension gives more room to move back if you are taller.

 

[slide13]

On an accustats dvd from last years Derby, Ralf souquet vs Carlo Biado. Ralf was playing and the commentators discuss that loose bracelet he wears on his grip hand. It's part of his system of knowing when his forearm is directly perpendicular to the floor, because gravity let's the bracelet fall evenly around his wrist.

You can see him, on various bridge lengths and setups, adjusting his grip hand back or forth and feeling the bracelet.

I don't think the balance point has anything to do with it, it's just at address of tip at cue ball, forearm perpendicular. If that takes your hand off the wrap (like Shane) so be it. Also an extension gives more room to move back if you are taller.

That is really interesting, never thought of using something like that to provide feedback about your grip position. I think I would find it annoying to have something on my wrist when I play, but maybe not if you used it as a guide I suppose. I wear a watch anytime I leave the house but I have to take it off to play. I'm always surprised when I see SVB wearing a big chunky watch on his bridge hand...seems like it would get be uncomfortable.