Ball-in-hand ethical question

mikepage said:
I'm inclined to think the ethical thing to do--unless it's a well established and widely understood practice to do otherwise in your area/league-- is call a foul on yourself.

Here's my reasoning. A referee, if there was one present, would be standing, not sitting, and he would be walking around the table getting to the right vantage point for any close shots, checking to see whether balls are frozen, and so forth. If you think this is the role your opponent should be taking in a non-refereed match, then by all means put the onus on him to call fouls.

But if you expect him more or less to stay in the chair when you're shooting, to not jump up whenever your body blocks the shot, to not stand with his arms folded just outside your shot line, then it's unreasonable imo to also expect him to call fouls on you.

I know this particular instance was an obvious foul. But I think you should adopt a standard that works across the board
Click to expand...
tap tap
Well thought out and something I had not even considered. The last thing I want is an opponent or their teammates jumping around me while I am shooting to see if I made a good hit or not, except where someone obviously has to watch. Aside from that though, I agree with calling them myself because its the right thing to do.
 
I always call a foul on myself wether they see it or not. Thats just me, I have to live with all my actions. The other night I call one on myself when my cue touched the cue ball when I was in my practice stroke, the ball didn't even move. I was playing a much better player and after that I came from behind and won. Just karma I guess.
 
steev said:
Wow, aren't you guys the upstanding members of society. League/tournament play, I won't say a thing. It's up to them to pay attention, I know I sure do.

I guess I'm just a jerk, but there ya go.

Now, if I'm gambling I'll tell you every time. That's bad karma.

-s

//I know there are others like me out there, y'all just don't wanna post and be seen as a jerk...
Click to expand...

AGREED!!!!!
 
PoolSharkAllen said:
The other night, while playing 8-ball in a pool league, I miscued badly and failed to hit the object ball with the cue ball.

My opponent then took his shot from the misqued cue ball position instead of taking ball-in-hand.

After my opponent missed his shot, I asked him why he didn't take BIH and he said he didn't know that I fouled. I had thought that my opponent was watching me play and since it was such an obvious cue ball foul due to the miscue, he should have known that he had BIH.

So my general question is, if your opponent is watching you play and there's an obvious foul, is it up to the opponent to be paying attention and take the cue ball-in-hand?

What if my opponent isn't paying attention and consequently, he doesn't see the foul and take BIH? How am I supposed to know that he isn't paying attention?
Click to expand...

This is why players hand the ball to their opponent or move it with their cue when they are watching. It's a matter of communication, that's all. You are under no requirement to do it.

Also...when you think you have ball in hand, if your opponent doesn't do something to acknowledge it, don't take BIH unless you are sure they acknowledge the foul first.

Chris
 
Shane, we must have learned from the same guy, 25 years apart, on a different continent.

Integrity is everything to me, my family, my friends, my country & to the "game of Pool". Without Integrity, life can be a S**t Hole. Honor is always rewarded from within & out....

I have had the pleasure of meeting hundreds of fine men, that play this game, everyone of them a gentleman. I have never liked even casual association with the pukes & *****s of this world.
 
steev said:
Wow, aren't you guys the upstanding members of society. League/tournament play, I won't say a thing. It's up to them to pay attention, I know I sure do.

I guess I'm just a jerk, but there ya go.

Now, if I'm gambling I'll tell you every time. That's bad karma.

-s

//I know there are others like me out there, y'all just don't wanna post and be seen as a jerk...
Click to expand...


I don't play in leagues, but I completely agree. I'm sorry I'm not the saint that everyone on board is, but unless I'm like heavy favorite to beat someone......(which is hardly ever) Than Everyone I play with knows the rules. If I foul they can pick up ball in hand. If they don't see it, it's not my fault that they weren't paying attention. I guess I sound like a monster now......:D I do admire the people that call fouls on themselves though.

Tony
 
I guess I took my guide from many years of playing golf. You call fouls on yourself. If I won a match in any game and had fouled without calling it I would not feel like I really won.
 
Mystick Cue Fan said:
I don't play in leagues, but I completely agree. I'm sorry I'm not the saint that everyone on board is, but unless I'm like heavy favorite to beat someone......(which is hardly ever) Than Everyone I play with knows the rules. If I foul they can pick up ball in hand. If they don't see it, it's not my fault that they weren't paying attention. I guess I sound like a monster now......:D I do admire the people that call fouls on themselves though.

Tony
Click to expand...

i don't think anyone feels they are saints by any means, but they do have integrity.
 
PoolSharkAllen said:
I too want my opponents to trust me enough to know that I won't cheat them. I do agree that I could have made sure that my opponent knew he had BIH.

However, this ethics situation has to work both ways. There was something else that I didn't mention earlier. My opponent was giving me slug (soft) 8-ball racks all night. One time, for example, he racked the balls so that there was an obvious 1/8-inch gap between the 1 and the two adjacent balls. I went over to examine the rack and had him re-rack that rack and many other racks during our match. With the soft racks that he was giving me, don't tell me that he wasn't trying to obtain an advantage on my break shots.

I'm relatively new to playing on pool leagues so it's interesting what "getting down in the trenches" will do to a person. Of course, two wrongs certainly don't make a right.
Click to expand...
Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because the other person does not have any integrity/class, I don't believe the right thing to do is to get even by doing something classless or something that negates your integrity.
No matter what is done - it is all up to you. As long as you can sleep at night and be proud of yourself then you can do what you think is right. Everybody is different and everybody has their opinions.
I am by no means a saint but I do call fouls on myself when I am playing pool - no matter who it is against.

BVal
 
OK
How about this scenario. You are in a $1000 tournament and have done quite well so far. You are a match away from sure money, and your oponent has been keeping you in your seat. He breaks, makes the one ball and starts to shoot the 3.

Do you tell him about the 2?
 
BazookaJoe said:
OK
How about this scenario. You are in a $1000 tournament and have done quite well so far. You are a match away from sure money, and your oponent has been keeping you in your seat. He breaks, makes the one ball and starts to shoot the 3.

Do you tell him about the 2?
Click to expand...

Yes, and I'll tell you why.

When I was in little league, I was the power slugger on my team. Two men were on base and we were tied. I was up. A fastball came in and I hit a powerful line drive straight over the right center fence. The fences in little league are really short, so a line drive hit hard could clear them. The ball was a real bullet, and believe it or not, was faster than the ump's eyes. I saw it and so did the outfielder who couldn't raise his glove in time. The other coach's assistant stormed onto the field yelling that the ball bounced over the fence. The ump was confused and called it a double. I argued and we talked to the outfielder. He lied and said he didn't know and gave me a stupid look. They called it a double and I was furious.

Basically, I made it home anyway and we won. But I was one HR shorter at the end of the season. But one thing I'll never forget was the feeling of disdain and disrespect I had for the outfielder. I still remember his lying face, and I hope to this day he still remembers taking away my home run.

As far as your pool scenario, if my opponent knowingly let me shoot and called a foul, I would hand him the ball and reserve a considerable amount of disrespect for him.

Chris
 
Last edited:
BazookaJoe said:
OK
How about this scenario. You are in a $1000 tournament and have done quite well so far. You are a match away from sure money, and your oponent has been keeping you in your seat. He breaks, makes the one ball and starts to shoot the 3.

Do you tell him about the 2?
Click to expand...
Nope! I've seen this situation happen many times.

If my opponent shoots at the wrong ball, they get to sit down. :)
 
Neil said:
I always keep the game honest. If I catch someone cheating, the game is over right there, and they won't get played by me again.
Click to expand...
Earlier in this thread, I mentioned that my opponent was repeatedly giving me soft, slug racks. We all know that giving your opponent slug racks happens all the time in pool. Is this not cheating on his part, in trying to nullify my break shot advantage?

In league play, walking out when someone cheats is not much of an option as you forfeit the match.
 
Neil said:
No, and I'll tell you why.

HE screwed up, not me. Your example really doesn't fit here. In your case, the outfielder flat out lied about the situation. In the pool example, if someone asks me if they just shot the 2 instead of the one, I would never lie to them. I would politely stand up, say "yes, you did, thank you" and then take my turn.
Click to expand...

There is no right or wrong thing to do in this situation. It's more of a "where do you draw the line" thing. I respect the fact that you would call a foul on yourself in every situation, but you draw the line at pointing out an upcoming and obvious foul, and I do not. Let's put it this way, I would not have much respect for an opponent who would sit through an obvious foul situation like this.

Chris
 
Last edited:
I am sorry, but I disagree with a lot of you guys.
If the other guy is not in the game, it is not my fault. Most of the time, I will roll the ball in disgust after a foul. (A sure admission of a foul)
If the guy asks "Was that a foul?" I will say yes.
If he walks to the table to kick at a ball when he actually has ball in hand, it is not my fault he was doing something more important than playing his match. That is why you only use the restroom on your turn.

A quarterback doesn't ask if the defense is paying attention before calling his audible.
 
Question for you- would you reserve the same amount of disrespect for him if he saw you shooting the wrong SHOT? (going for a tough bank instead of the obvious easy safety, for example, when the bank is a sell out for the game) Personally, I don't see the difference between the two, except that one maybe shows a little more carelessness than the other.
Click to expand...

You don't see the difference between an obvious rules violation and a judgement call you disagree with?

pj
chgo
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top