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R

Reno

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A little background on me. I've recently relocated from Arizona to Central Illinois. I've been playing pool for about ten or twelve years. I learned to play in the 9-ball / "Color of Money" generation, as I like to call it. I play pretty decent (my best run is four racks of nine ball on a 4 1/2 by 9 table, done it four or five times. Break, make a ball, run out, etc.) The pool scene is much smaller where I am now. In fact, I have to drive 45 minutes to get to the only decent pool room around.

What I have stumbled upon though is incredible. The room I play in now has some regulars that come in in the afternoon. There are probably four or five of 'em. All of them are probably 45 to 60 years old. From listening to them jabber, it sounds like they've played together for a long, long time. They play three or four hand banks, for five bucks a head. Never any more. I'll sweat this game while having lunch or whatever. The jabber alone is worth the price of admission. Super nice guys. But the banks these cats shoot could fill a book.

What I can't understand is, how can I have never thought of these shots, or even seen these shots before? Two, three, four railers, they drain 'em! Consistantly! Is it because I'm just a nine-baller? Is it a Midwest thing? Or is it an age thing? They won't play me anymore five dollar nine ball ring games because they bitch that I have "young" eyes, but they're more than happy to give me a beating playing banks. Of which I'd be more than happy to play them for twenty just to try to tap into their incredible knowledge. I feel like I have just been introduced to an entire new layer of the game. And once again, I'm addicted!! Like a fat kid loves cake, I love getting to the poolroom to play banks!

I'd like to hear from some of the more experienced players out there, especially Fast Larry. I'm sure you would have some sound advise for a banger like myself. What's it take to get to that level? Do I just keep donating to these cats? Should I play more one-hole? Any advise would be much appreciated.
 
Gerald,

I call myself a banger because I realize where nine ball stands on the ladder to greatness. I take my game seriously, yes. But I also realize that 9-ball is probably the easiest game out there. Yes, I have the ability to run racks. What I lack is the knowledge to become a great player. I play great, but I'm far from a great player. IMO.
 
Reno,

There are a few guys around that play a lot of banks. One pocket is a good game to learn your banks especially the 2 and 3 railers. There was a guy up in Reno one year, maybe 3 years ago who was looking for a bank game. He wasn't that old, maybe 35. I think he finally got a game and wasted the dude and then his action was dead. He just didn't miss very many banks. He played in the open 9 ball tournament and placed fairly high in the money. I don't remember his name or where he was from. He was about 6'2", black and regular build.
 
I like explaining things to beginners, and knowing that you are an advanced player makes me uncomfortable here.

I agree, 9-ball can be a simple game. Lots of ball control, potting, and luck. It lacks another dimension that other games have like rotation and three cushion which can bestow one player the gift of table understanding.

I always encourage understanding the diamond system. Actually, the "Diamond System" is a misnomer. I think it should be parallelograms, wherein a diamond path is included. There are so many players who can go to war with the draw, stun, follow, etc., and win by mere heart, luck, and accuracy. But once you understand the table, there are many bad situations that you can get either offensively or defensively.

Now, I know that you understand that the angle you give is the angle that you come out of a rail, and off the second rail, the path will be parallel with the original path. If not, the fourth path will be parallel with the second. To me, in 9-ball, this knowledge is most important after the cue ball hits the object ball. The natural path of the cue ball upon impact can help the player prepare for the next shot after it travels three or four rails. This is useful sometimes instead of making a forced draw that goes down the other end of the table.

Perhaps you are sick of reading about how Efren "Bata" is and how he is the greatest player ever and all that stuff. But let me tell you now that with Efren, he measures the rail by the millimeter. When he lets the travel the cue ball three cushions, he will know exactly how it will hit another ball. I say this because I have seen him use his rail wizardry in 9-ball and I have seen him play three cushion pool. With object balls one foot apart, he let the his cue ball travel four rails, and upon hitting the 1st object ball at the right tangent, his cue ball then made its way to the second object ball. Millimeters, because he can tell exactly how the cue ball is going to get hit to give him that tangent.

I think table understanding is where you separate the boys from the men.
 
But once you understand the table, there are many bad situations that you can get AWAY WITH either offensively or defensively.

(I do not have an edit option in this forum)
 
I play 1 pocket & have always been a pretty
good banker but there is a game in the town
I live in now called 7 up. 1, 9 & 15 are game balls.
Count 1 point each. Must be banked in & if you
back scuttle cue ball must travel 3 rails before
hitting object ball. All other balls may be played
straight in,8 of them count as 1 point. Game goes
to 7 & usually takes about 3 racks to finish.
If game is tied 6-6 at end of 3 racks only the 15
counts in final rack. Call everything ,including
kisses & game balls must go clean. If you scratch
on a regular ball you owe a ball but not while
shootig game balls. If you make a game ball &
scratch you simply spot ball. Anybody ever hear
of this game? I hadn't until I moved here.
 
Sputnik, thank you for the excellent advise. And just for the record, I could never get tired of hearing about Efren. I feel fairly comfortable with my knowledge of the table. For example, I am very confident kicking at balls using one or two rails. Three rails is pushing it a little bit, although I'm usually pretty close.

From my experience, it seems as if I just "see" things differently than other players. For example, I shoot long banks with much more confidence and success than I do cross-side banks. Most people I play seem to be just the opposite. I could have the cueball on the end rail with the object ball nine feet away in the center on the other end of the table and yet I can "see" how to bank that ball. Then again, give me a cross-side or cross-corner bank and it will look like I've never picked up a cue before (OK, maybe that exaggerates it a bit.)

On another note of interest, or ridiculousness as some would call it, when it comes to English or side-spin: I use either center or inside. I cannot make a ball using even a touch of outside English. Again, this seems to be the polar opposite of other players I watch.

A very good player in Phoenix once told me, "it's very obvious you learned to play on your own." After a long pause he then added, "but you play damn good."

Oh well, maybe I need to stop trying to do what others do and just figure it out on the practice table.
 
Reno,
You are on the Northern edge of "Bank Pool Country" Chicago is the home of one time great Bank pool player Bugs Rugger (sp?)

Kentucky, Ohio, Indiana and Tennessee are states that some of the legends of Bank pool originated. The Knoxville Bear, Eddie Taylor (Hall of Famer), Joey and his son Gary Speath, Donnie Anderson (the Cincinnati Kid), Truman Houge, John Brumbeck... Shannon Daulton, Nick Varner... Chris McDonald, Eric Durbin, Whitey and Tommy Stevenson(sp?), George Breelove, Rick Garrison, Troy Franks, Corey Duel, just to name a few.

I know I've left some out.. there are lots of great 'short stops' that only show up at the Derby City Classic in Jan 2004.. Don't miss this if you get a change to go..

10 days of 9 ball banks, One Pocket and 9ball.. All single elimination (one option to buy back) And 24x7 action.
 
I know what you are experiencing. When I first arrived in Germany last pocket eight ball was the thing. There were guys there who couldn't run a rack but could make any bank imaginable and many that weren't. I remember very clearly how one of my friends baffled Jim Rempe at an expo with a severe reverse off angle bank that my friend made consistently and Rempe couldn't get close to.

When people play a certain discipline to exhaustion they get real good at it. Golf (as in golf on a snooker table) players are expert at rolling the cueball and kicking with perfect speed. There are golf players who can't run a rack in nine ball but will tear most people apart when they are shooting at one ball and keeping you from shooting yours.

Enjoy your immersion while you can but remember that all the shots you are seeing are a result of a microcosm created by that group at that location. A lot of the shots will be useful in one pocket and nine ball and a lot of them would be folly in either game. Be like Efren and play and learn all the shots so you have them when you need them.

Have fun,

John
 
Sputnik said:
Perhaps you are sick of reading about how Efren "Bata" is and how he is the greatest player ever and all that stuff. But let me tell you now that with Efren, he measures the rail by the millimeter. When he lets the travel the cue ball three cushions, he will know exactly how it will hit another ball. I say this because I have seen him use his rail wizardry in 9-ball and I have seen him play three cushion pool. With object balls one foot apart, he let the his cue ball travel four rails, and upon hitting the 1st object ball at the right tangent, his cue ball then made its way to the second object ball. Millimeters, because he can tell exactly how the cue ball is going to get hit to give him that tangent.

I think table understanding is where you separate the boys from the men.
Click to expand...

Not to totally disagree with what you are saying but I seem to remember Efren saying in an interview that he knows the kick shots simply because he has played them so much. He also said that he has learned his incredible array of fantastic shots because of watching amateurs make unintended shots and then he knew that such shots were possible.

Whatever he does - it's magic!

John
 
Tom In Cincy said:
Reno,
You are on the Northern edge of "Bank Pool Country" Chicago is the home of one time great Bank pool player Bugs Rugger (sp?)

Kentucky, Ohio, Indiana and Tennessee are states that some of the legends of Bank pool originated. The Knoxville Bear, Eddie Taylor (Hall of Famer), Joey and his son Gary Speath, Donnie Anderson (the Cincinnati Kid), Truman Houge, John Brumbeck... Shannon Daulton, Nick Varner... Chris McDonald, Eric Durbin, Whitey and Tommy Stevenson(sp?), George Breelove, Rick Garrison, Troy Franks, Corey Duel, just to name a few.

I know I've left some out.. there are lots of great 'short stops' that only show up at the Derby City Classic in Jan 2004.. Don't miss this if you get a change to go..

Click to expand...

i'd add louis demarco and larry price to your list, good post....

warren..
 
instroke said:


Enjoy your immersion while you can but remember that all the shots you are seeing are a result of a microcosm created by that group at that location. A lot of the shots will be useful in one pocket and nine ball and a lot of them would be folly in either game. Be like Efren and play and learn all the shots so you have them when you need them.

Have fun,

John
Click to expand...

to add to your post and the one by tom, i think in general good bank pool players tend to be good one pocket players and vice-versa. this region of the country has alot of one pocket players as well as bank pool players. and some that just play all the games well, like shannon daulton, john brumback, etc. i think another microcosm might be the NYC area with straight pool.

warren..
 
where do you play at in bloomington...ride the 9? haven't been up that way in awhile...mainly play around the St. Louis area.
 
midwikkid- How's things in your area? Any big news about anyone? I heard Teachers was bringing back there Masters League, know anything about it? Who's got the best tournament now, league, best place to get some action (without going all the way into St. Louis)?
Thanks,
Zim
 
zims, i don't play too much into IL. mainly just missouri. teachers is bringing back their masters league, which i think is really good for the business. i remember the monday night masters way back when. as far as the best place to find action......chesterfield is always packed...their tournys on monday nights have been drawing some good names. Ross Belt, Julia Gabrial, Steve Boucher, Justin and lars make appearances now and then. the tournament at Action a few weeks ago got rescheduled, but the break tourny is coming up in about 2 weeks. part of the midwest 9 ball tour. sure to bring alot of top talent. also poplar bluff has been having some big tournys and a 5000 added event coming up down there.
 
I heard Teachers Masters League is going to cost $20 per player per night, that's a little steep isn't it? I can't wait to play at the mentioned places once in a while. You should get a team together and play in the LENJOS annual team tournament www.geocities.com/zimsrack/LENJOS this coming January! Check it out and see if you can get some guys/girls together and tell your fellow players about it!
Thanks for the update,
Zim
 
Fast Larry, You Da Man!! Thank you. Tomorrow is day one of my banking practice. No wait, that just doesn't sound right. Tomorrow is day one in my quest for a Master's Degree in Bankology.

You know, people in the professional world just can't understand how a bright young kid can spend all of his free time in a poolroom. I try to tell them that they can learn a whole lot more living life than they can just watching TV. I say this because I knew just from reading your posts FL, that you are no BS. Sure you piss off a lot of people. But if those people would look beyond the superficial politically correct BS, they would see the wisdom in your posts. Now, I can't say that I agree with all of your antagonizing. I know you like to get a rise out of people. But I also realize that you have an incredible amount of knowledge and wisdom when it comes to life in the world of pool.

I'm sure you know it FL, but for the rest of those "poolplayers" out there, let me tell you, it's not just about making balls. You can run 150 and out in your basement everyday of your life, but until you learn how to handle the "real world", i.e., matching up playing in a real room, you're playing rookie ball.

I know, I know, you're all gonna say I'm kissing his ass. Fine. Go ahead and say it. But, remember this...three to five years down the road, when you see a fat kid come into your poolroom and whip your ass with an attitude, you're gonna say, "boy oh boy, that kid sure shoots straight." And I'll say as I'm walking out the door with the cash, "You should've listened to the wisdom of FL when you had the chance."

Thanks Fast man, if I ever run into you in a poolroom, I'll try to repay you the best I can.

Reno
 
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