Bar box problems

It sounds like your problem isn' t really with the size of the table, more like the condition it's in. The place I play mainly has Diamond Smart 7 fts. It has a 9 ft. but I don't ever play on it. The 7 foots are somewhat easier because the "long" shot isn't really that long but they're alot more difficult because even if you have a good break there is usually at least two balls clustered together and there is always at least one ball on the rail. It takes much better ball management and break out skills to play well on a 7ft.
 
Bar Rules

chefjeff said:
Until about 3 months ago, I was stuck playing exclusively on barboxes. You'll live.

There's a technique called, barbox speed. That is, don't even attempt to slow roll a normal shot. Hit it ala 9-ball speed. The draw-drag shot comes in real handy on crappy barboxes when you want a soft touch on the object ball.

Exception: I was on a barbox playing "bar" rules (call kisses, etc.) the other night. I broke and ran down to the 8, but it was just barely blocked from the pocket by a ball. I thought if I hit it softly enough, being it was in the worn area where the balls are racked, it just might curve around the interfering ball. So, I gave it my best soft shot, the 8 rolled by the interfering ball, curved left as I had hoped (!!!), touched the end rail, hit the tit, and went in for the win! I laughed inside, but the crowd watching all gasped, thinking I was a pool God with special powers. ;)

One guy said I didn't call the two rails, but I laughed him off, as I thought he wasn't serious (turns out he was :rolleyes: ). I took the win, anyway.

Jeff Livingston
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One of the locals actually got irate because I played safeties on him (I play mostly one pocket). When I asked what rules he played by (BCA, APA, etc) I got the same look my dog gives me when I talk to him (blank stare mouth open). Anyway there were about twenty people in the room playing on four tables. This person (nickname stick) was the room hotshot so everyone was watching us play. I think there may have been almost four complete sets of teeth in the whole place.

Finally this pool sage (his teeth looked like a mouth full of corn nuts) enlightened me with the local rules:
No ball in hand (even if you hit no ball).
Call everything (kisses, rails, etc).
CB behind the line on fouls (the only foul is a scratch).
No jump shots (he called them trick shots).
Combo off any ball, even if you don’t hit your ball first (a safety
players dream).
And finally…No more than three safeties per game.

WTF…Please tell me this is not the way most bar players play. I left a copy of the BCA rules with the owner who said he would go over them and see if they fit his room.
 
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Chicken_Blood said:
WTF…Please tell me this is not the way most bar players play. I left a copy of the BCA rules with the owner who said he would go over them and see if they fit for his room.
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not in my place,,,LOL,,,I'll be glad to show the BCA rules, framed and in 2 places on the wall, to anybody arguing...

most forget what the disagreement was actually about after they've read for a few minutes,,,LOL
 
Chicken_Blood said:
One of the locals actually got irate because I played safeties on him (I play mostly one pocket). When I asked what rules he played by (BCA, APA, etc) I got the same look my dog gives me when I talk to him (blank stare mouth open). Anyway there were about twenty people in the room playing on four tables. This person (nickname stick) was the room hotshot so everyone was watching us play. I think there may have been almost four complete sets of teeth in the whole place.

Finally this pool sage (his teeth looked like a mouth full of corn nuts) enlightened me with the local rules:
No ball in hand (even if you hit no ball).
Call everything (kisses, rails, etc).
CB behind the line on fouls (the only foul is a scratch).
No jump shots (he called them trick shots).
Combo off any ball, even if you don’t hit your ball first (a safety
players dream).
And finally…No more than three safeties per game.

WTF…Please tell me this is not the way most bar players play. I left a copy of the BCA rules with the owner who said he would go over them and see if they fit for his room.
Click to expand...

I used to carry a one page copy of the BCA 8-balls rules in my car until one night a similar incident happened where the idiot just tore them up and refused to play (or pay, as I remember it :rolleyes: )

The guy the other night that complained about my 8-ball touching the sides of the pocket had just watched me run 16 balls in a row (8 from previous game) and then he is trying to tell me how to play pool! If this has happened once, it's happened a thousand times. This is one aspect of pool players' psychology that I'll never get.

Oh well,

Jeff Livingston
 
Jack Flanagan said:
not in my place,,,LOL,,,I'll be glad to show the BCA rules, framed and in 2 places on the wall, to anybody arguing...

most forget what the disagreement was actually about after they've read for a few minutes,,,LOL
Click to expand...

Hey Jack,
Who knows maybe I have played league too much and just forgot that it’s a game after all. The problem is that I play with several BCA instructors so we know the BCA rules forwards & backwards.

Hey I just had an epiphany. PLAY FOR FUN!

P.S. Where in the deep south?
 
chefjeff said:
I used to carry a one page copy of the BCA 8-balls rules in my car until one night a similar incident happened where the idiot just tore them up and refused to play (or pay, as I remember it :rolleyes: )

The guy the other night that complained about my 8-ball touching the sides of the pocket had just watched me run 16 balls in a row (8 from previous game) and then he is trying to tell me how to play pool! If this has happened once, it's happened a thousand times. This is one aspect of pool players' psychology that I'll never get.

Oh well,

Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...
Me either, I look for better players. Play better players and you get better yourself.
 
Chicken Blood-

I've played pool in a lot of bars and most of the "pool players" share a few qualities. Here are some off the top of my head:

1. Contest every shot you make if they can find any excuse.
2. Try to play a "safety" by tapping the cue ball without hitting another ball or a rail.
3. Always take the easiest shot they have.
4. Are out on the dance floor when their quarters come up.
5. Get upset when they get done dancing and someone else is "playing their game"
6. Get upset when you run the table (which they attribute to you being really lucky).
7. Get upset when you play "dirty pool" and play leave on them.
8. Try to give you advice (usually wrong) on what balls to shoot.
9. Are very impressed by a powerful draw shot, but have no appreciation for strategy and great position play (which they attribute to you being really lucky).
10. Shoot hard on every shot and pretend that the position they get is intentional.

Welcome to the world of bar box pool.
 
MFB said:
Don't slow roll. Use a lot of stun shots. Use other balls to stop the cueball. Stay away from your object ball, play area position, not pinpoint. Learn the goofy rolls and use them to your advantage.
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Im going to through the same transition now, I play on 9 foot GC's but on the weekend at this new local bar on crappy bar box..
The biggest advantage you have when playing these bar rules.. is to "cheat" and make your safty play look look like you ment to shoot the shot but maybe just dogged it. Now no one has a chance with me there. Im just learning the Big ball, and can now draw it almost 2 bar table lengths. You will figure it out.

Mack
 
First they need to vacum the tables, then check how level they are and get them releveled. You do not need a machinist level to do this. Find someone in the area who has worked on tables before. Also the balls should be replaced.

If this does not fix it then the tables need to be redone.

You should never try to slow roll balls on a bar box.

Steve
 
Agreed with all of the above, although I'm not sure how easy much of it will be to accomplish.

I can't imagine the bar owner would be upset if you cleaned the table, so start there. If the place is like many I've seen, it's probably never cleaned & there's probably a bunch of dirt that has worked its way through the felt. As far as I know there isn't anything you can do about this until the cloth is removed/replaced. (Good luck with that one, lol)

Balls need to be professionally cleaned (or quite possibly replaced if they are that bad).

The cue ball could be replaced no matter what style it was (at little expense vs. significant improvement).

If the table is unlevel, you can do that yourself (at least to within a reasonable range). I'm don't know much about pool table maintainence & repair, but I can get a table leveled so that it is at least decent in about 10 minutes with no tools at all.

Just shoot the balls up and down & side to side and see which way it slopes. I would use a high ball with the stripe centered so that I could make sure I wasn't accidentally putting any english on the ball. After that it's just common sense on which legs to adjust, and trial and error on how much. I used to have to do this every week when I played at this bar that moved the table every Friday for a band. It was annoying, but didn't take that long.

I can't imagine this would be "bad" for the table, though it may not wind up perfectly level by professional table mechanic standards.

Some of the stuff you won't be able to control and/or change, and you will have to adjust your game accordingly. It can be frustrating, but you will learn to adapt.

Thankfully, nowadays most of the bars in our area have learned to give the bar boxes a little respect. Some of them have actually become a pleasure to shoot on. Hope your luck is as good....

~Chris
 
Chicken_Blood said:
I have been playing exclusively on 8' & 9' tables for about four years know. Anyway I recently moved to a small town where there aren’t anything but bar boxes. [...]

Somebody else mentioned drag shots. I think this is a really important point. If you want the cueball to hit the object ball six feet away rolling slowly, there are two ways to do it. One is roll the cueball slowly. And the other is to hit the cueball harder with backspin such that the cueball skids down the table with the brakes on. You want the backspin to wear off just before the cueball hits the object ball.

Here are some other things that are different on a bar box. Bar box players don't worry as much about getting the cueball close to the object ball. This is because corner pockets are big, and the table is not so long. There is more emphasis on making sure the cueball is in the clear.

Also, on a table with tighter pockets, getting straight in on a shot is often the kiss of death. While on a bar box, anytime the object ball is within a couple feet of the corner pocket, you have an angle because of the big pockets. This is more a caution going in the other direction I guess.
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mikepage said:
Chicken_Blood said:
I have been playing exclusively on 8' & 9' tables for about four years know. Anyway I recently moved to a small town where there aren’t anything but bar boxes. [...]

Somebody else mentioned drag shots. I think this is a really important point. If you want the cueball to hit the object ball six feet away rolling slowly, there are two ways to do it. One is roll the cueball slowly. And the other is to hit the cueball harder with backspin such that the cueball skids down the table with the brakes on. You want the backspin to wear off just before the cueball hits the object ball.

Here are some other things that are different on a bar box. Bar box players don't worry as much about getting the cueball close to the object ball. This is because corner pockets are big, and the table is not so long. There is more emphasis on making sure the cueball is in the clear.

Also, on a table with tighter pockets, getting straight in on a shot is often the kiss of death. While on a bar box, anytime the object ball is within a couple feet of the corner pocket, you have an angle because of the big pockets. This is more a caution going in the other direction I guess.
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Because I've been subing on a 9-ballbar league, I thought of this thread while playing Sunday night.

I watched a pretty good shooter screw himself several times and so I asked him if he normally played on 9 footers. He said 'yes' and wondered how I knew this. I told him I could tell by the shots he selected and the pockets he selected. My advice (after the match ;) ) to him was to avoid the side pockets. I'm not sure he got it, but...

The side pockets on the Valley bar tables (most common here) are so fricking tiny that a golf ball has a hard time going in. They are MORE than one inch smaller that most 9-footers! AND...this is the part that gets me....and the way the cloth is stretched arouond the tits (to look good, according to a mechanic) it makes the sides snooker-like, thus about 1,000 more deadly than a big table's sides.

So, generally speaking, learn to set up for, and chose, the corners, in the words of George Fels, "whenever possible."

Jeff Livingston
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Nine ball from tournaments

Thanks all,
Well tonight’s the night, playing in a nine ball tournament at the same place (at least we agree on the rules). Let’s see if I got it mostly right:

Don't slow roll.
Corner pockets are better than side pockets.
Over cut everything.
Realize there are no long shots on a bar box.
Shorten your bridge.
Favor follow shots.
Use a lot of stun shots.
Join the APA.
Move to a different town.

That about it?
 
Chicken_Blood said:
Thanks all,
Well tonight’s the night, playing in a nine ball tournament at the same place (at least we agree on the rules). Let’s see if I got it mostly right:

Don't slow roll.
Corner pockets are better than side pockets.
Over cut everything.
Realize there are no long shots on a bar box.
Shorten your bridge.
Favor follow shots.
Use a lot of stun shots.
Join the APA.
Move to a different town.

That about it?
Click to expand...

That's a good list. I forgot to add one other thing: Most barboxes have a big cabinet that most 9-footers don't have. This means that your stance on certain shots doesn't allow your knee to go under the table as it would on a 9-footer. So, you'll have to create a new stance for these shots that will be unfamiliar for a while, what with your knee squished up against the cabinet.

Jeff Livingston
 
Munchkin 9 ball tournament

Played in the nine ball tourney last night. Took second out of 25, all the advice helped considerably. Out of all the comments I think the advice on not slow rolling and staying away from the anorexic side pockets were the most useful. I still dont like playing on a small table but I will deal with it.
 
Chicken_Blood said:
Played in the nine ball tourney last night. Took second out of 25, all the advice helped considerably. Out of all the comments I think the advice on not slow rolling and staying away from the anorexic side pockets were the most useful. I still dont like playing on a small table but I will deal with it.
Click to expand...

Good job....You must've made, what, fifty bucks? ...now what kinda percentage do we get? ;)

Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
Good job....You must've made, what, fifty bucks? ...now what kinda percentage do we get? ;)

Jeff Livingston
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$10.00 entry fee, 25 people and the bar matches the pot ($500.00).
Single elimination (no loosers bracket) Pays three places:

1st place $250.00
2nd place $150.00
3rd place $100.00

I am sorry but my vision just went blurry...Something about a percentage?
 
bar leagues

I own a bar with 4 bar boxes in it. Since i myself play alot i take better care of them, and my operator does too. He replaces felt often and keeps the balls clean. However we have a bar league with about 15 other local bars involved, and alot of them never even clean the tables. I agree with a couple things i have read so far. when you find a table with a larger cue ball, the follow shot and playing natural leave is usually the best choice, because the larger ball is also heavier and harder to draw. As for the tables that are not level i also agree with playing low english and hitting the ball firmer to help keep it on line.
 
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