Bar rule or World Standardized Rule?

I

Irish634

Whatever
Silver Member
I hope someone can clarify this for me. This happened in our 8 ball league and I am unable to locate the "written" rule for it.

In playing the game 8 ball, the rule regarding combination shots (4.15) really only pertains to the 8 ball. However, rule 4.2 specifies "call shot" criteria.

In a game, a 'combination' was called where the shooter called "15 into the 3, 3 into the corner pocket." His opponent immediately jumped up and said that wasn't legal to do that. (Shooter had solids)

The guy running the league said that combinations can only be made off 'your own group only.' The shooter then said, I won't argue, but that is not correct. He then proceeded to shoot another shot.

In the discussion that followed, it was pointed out that 'that is how the game is played.' We do have a few "house rules" but this is not specified in them as written at the start of the league and in the sheet it says, "unless otherwise noted World Standardized Rules will apply." So we looked up the standardized rules and we cited rule 4.2 and were unable to find where this or any rule stated "combination off your own group only."

Anyone else run into this? Who was correct? I am assuming this is just another bar rule? I know I have made shots similar to this before because it's how I interpret the rule. Believe it or not, it has never come up in the league until now.

Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks.

Craig
 
Don't quote me on this but, I'm pretty sure that the first object ball you touch has to be one of your balls, unless directly after the break when the table is still open. So yes, it is my opinion that you have to hit one of your balls first, therefore in order to make a combination shot you would have to hit your ball first. Just my opinion.
 
8-Ball Player said:
Don't quote me on this but, I'm pretty sure that the first object ball you touch has to be one of your balls, unless directly after the break when the table is still open. So yes, it is my opinion that you have to hit one of your balls first, therefore in order to make a combination shot you would have to hit your ball first. Just my opinion.
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For a legal hit, you must hit your ball group first and then drive a ball to a rail. Failure to do this results in a foul and ball in hand for your opponent.
 
mszelis said:
For a legal hit, you must hit your ball group first and then drive a ball to a rail. Failure to do this results in a foul and ball in hand for your opponent.
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So am I right? :D :D
 
Yes, you are correct... when table is open (meaning nobody has legally pocketed a ball after the break), you can use a ball from either highs or lows as the initial ball in a combination, but (even with an open table) the eight cannot be used as the first ball in the combination under many league rule sets.
 
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I don't know about all the crazy bar rules out there, but any standardized rules (BCA, APA, etc.) for 8-ball say that a legal shot involves the cue ball touching a ball from your group before touching any other ball. If you're solids, no shot where you contact the 15 first is legal.

-Andrew
 
as written in the 8-ball game rules on the WPA website

http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules_8ball

4.9 OPEN TABLE
(Defined) The table is "open" when the choice of groups (stripes or solids) has not yet been determined. When the table is open, it is legal to hit a solid first to make a stripe or vice-versa. Note: The table is always open immediately after the break shot. When the table is open, it is legal to hit any solid or stripe first in the process of pocketing the called stripe or solid. However, when the table is open and the 8-ball is the first ball contacted, it is a foul and no stripe or solid may be scored in favor of the shooter. The shooter loses his turn; the incoming player is awarded cue ball in hand; any balls pocketed remain pocketed; and the incoming player addresses the balls with the table still open. On an open table, all illegally pocketed balls remain pocketed.

4.10 CHOICE OF GROUP
The choice of stripes or solids is not determined on the break even if balls are made from only one or both groups, because the table is always open immediately after the break shot. The choice of group is determined only when a player legally pockets a called object ball after the break shot.

If the groups have been determined and the player mistakenly shoots at and pockets a ball of the opponent’s group, the opponent must call a foul on him before he takes his next shot. If he fails to do so, the player automatically takes over the group of balls (solids or stripes) at which he has been shooting during this inning.

4.11 LEGAL SHOT
(Defined) On all shots (except on the break and when the table is open), the shooter must hit one of his group of balls first and (1) pocket a numbered ball, or (2) cause the cue ball or any numbered ball to contact a rail. Please Note: It is permissible for the shooter to bank the cue ball off a rail before contacting the object ball; however, after contact with the object ball, an object ball must be pocketed, or the cue ball or any numbered ball must contact a rail. Failure to meet these requirements is a foul.
 
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I think the rule in the "combination shot" section of the rules is vague because in the section that describes what is a legal hit (I'm too lazy to look it up) clearly says that a ball (in 8-ball) of your category MUST be struck first and then any ball must be driven to a rail or a ball pocketed to make it a legal hit. So anyone with solids striking a striped object ball first has fouled, PERIOD. The opponent you were playing would have commited a foul by NOT striking one of his category of balls first.

Maniac

EDIT: I see socks in the above post wasn't as lazy as me, LOL!!!
 
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Wow, I mean, this need not be discussed ANY FURTHER. You think this guy was ready to say, "The whole world plays the game wrong, I read the rules!!!"???

Every shot taken in 8-ball must meet requirements defined in "Legal Shot". There are no exceptions. The Combinations rule does not conflict with the Legal Shot rule. It's merely used for further clarification.

That would be like parking illegally and trying to tell the officer that it was okay because your car has current registration stickers.
 
Thanks.... I obviously was thinking of the open table rule when I was looking this up & for some reason had a brain fart as to reading further. LOL.
 
You said he had solids. Was it because a solid went down on the break? Was this then the very next shot after the break or had other solids also been made? The way I am understanding it the table is open after the break so if it was the following shot the cross combo would be legal.:(
 
It wasn't immediately after the break.. I just had it stuck in my head that it was directly after the break when I was looking it up when the table had actually been established. I was wrong when I was sticking up for the shooter. One track mind I guess.

Thanks to everyone that answered, even though I am an idiot. LOL
 
rackem said:
You said he had solids. Was it because a solid went down on the break? Was this then the very next shot after the break or had other solids also been made? The way I am understanding it the table is open after the break so if it was the following shot the cross combo would be legal.:(
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I think you're reading into the scenario too much. The given information tells us that players are defined. However, you are correct. After the break, even if a ball was pocketed on the break, the table is open and any ball can be used for a combination with any other ball. The only exception being the 8-ball - it cannot be used in the beginning of a combination and to strike the 8-ball first while balls of your group remain is a foul.
 
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