Bar rules 8-ball: The intentional miscue!

[Billy_Bob]

This is when you are in a situation where shooting your ball or balls will hurt you and will probably give the game away to your opponent.

So what to do? You will lose if you hit your ball(s)...

You actually have an option of *not* hitting your balls.

This is the "intentional" miscue. Take a while to examine the balls for your shot, then get down to shoot...

Several practice strokes for a center ball hit, then with your final stroke, make the tip of your cue hit the top left/right of the cue ball and then tip goes flying up into the air. Cue ball veers to left or right not hitting any balls.

Say "Darn! I'm getting this tip replaced."

 

[stick8]

if that is the way you shoot pool and you are asking me what would you do??? If I was you I would sell my cues and take up some other sport!!!!! STICK

 

[UWPoolGod1]

if that is the way you shoot pool and you are asking me what would you do??? If I was you I would sell my cues and take up some other sport!!!!! STICK

*clap clap clap*

 

[Billy_Bob]

Well here is a situation I saw someone else in...

Bar rules 8-ball, no safeties allowed. The player had shot in all his balls, but missed on the 8 and left it hanging. The other player shot one of his balls to completely block the 8 so it looked like the following. What would you do? (The only ball you have to shoot at is the 8, the other balls are your opponent's balls, there are "no rules" as it is a bar rules tournament.)

(BTW the player shot at the 2 which hit the 8 and he lost the game.)

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/

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[cuetechasaurus]

This is when you are in a situation where shooting your ball or balls will hurt you and will probably give the game away to your opponent.

So what to do? You will lose if you hit your ball(s)...

You actually have an option of *not* hitting your balls.

This is the "intentional" miscue. Take a while to examine the balls for your shot, then get down to shoot...

Several practice strokes for a center ball hit, then with your final stroke, make the tip of your cue hit the top left/right of the cue ball and then tip goes flying up into the air. Cue ball veers to left or right not hitting any balls.

Say "Darn! I'm getting this tip replaced."

You give the worst advice. Ever.

 

[MikeH]

Well here is a situation I saw someone else in...

Bar rules 8-ball, no safeties allowed. The player had shot in all his balls, but missed on the 8 and left it hanging. The other player shot one of his balls to completely block the 8 so it looked like the following. What would you do? (The only ball you have to shoot at is the 8, the other balls are your opponent's balls, there are "no rules" as it is a bar rules tournament.)

(BTW the player shot at the 2 which hit the 8 and he lost the game.)

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/

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What I would have done is...not miss the 8 ball.

Really, it is lame, are you going to then miscue on the next shot as well?

Would make more sense to just to kick the 4 to the other end of the table or play the 2-8 and toss some more quarters up.

I would put a higher price on my integrity than a $0-$5 8-ball game in a bar.

-Mike

 

[Cameron Smith]

What I would have done is...not miss the 8 ball.

Really, it is lame, are you going to then miscue on the next shot as well?

Would make more sense to just to kick the 4 to the other end of the table or play the 2-8 and toss some more quarters up.

I would put a higher price on my integrity than a $0-$5 8-ball game in a bar.

-Mike

Everybody misses. Thorsten Hohmann missed the 8 to beat Wu at the World 8 ball Championships.

I have a really slow internet connection so I can't see the wei table, however from the descriptions it sounds that there is nothing that can be done to pocket the eight in a legal stroke. Or even hit it.

So what do you do just give up? Sometimes it is prudent to give up ball in hand depending on the circumstances. I watched Nick Van den berg (sp?), intentionally give up ball in hand in a 9 ball match opting to make the layout of the table more difficult rather than to try and hit the ball on. Smart as far as I am concerned.

Integrity doesn't factor into it.

 

[Billy_Bob]

...I have a really slow internet connection so I can't see the wei table, however from the descriptions it sounds that there is nothing that can be done to pocket the eight in a legal stroke. Or even hit it...

Correct. The 8 is hanging in a corner and surrounded by his opponents balls. Basically you can't hit the 8 with a legal shot - no way to get to the 8. And then bar rules so there is not a way to give your opponent ball-in-hand per se. No stalemate rule. No rules!

Anyway I have seen people in these situations and they think they *have* to try to hit their ball. There are of course other options.

Also this guy's opponent was playing nasty by shooting his ball in the way to block the only remaining route to the 8 ball (Gentleman's pool of course!)

 

[MikeH]

Everybody misses.

He isn't talking about missing, he is talking about miscuing on purpose.

Thorsten Hohmann missed the 8 to beat Wu at the World 8 ball Championships.

Not sure what this means as missing an 8-ball in an 8-ball tournament vice making it is never an advantage.

I have a really slow internet connection so I can't see the wei table, however from the descriptions it sounds that there is nothing that can be done to pocket the eight in a legal stroke. Or even hit it.

It cannot be hit "legally"

So what do you do just give up? Sometimes it is prudent to give up ball in hand depending on the circumstances. I watched Nick Van den berg (sp?), intentionally give up ball in hand in a 9 ball match opting to make the layout of the table more difficult rather than to try and hit the ball on. Smart as far as I am concerned.

We are talking about an 8-ball game, and obviously there was no ball in hand on fouls as the opponent chose to try to shoot the 2 after the "miscue" (which on top of the no BIH would stand to say he was a 'D' type player or worse).

Comparing bar room 8-ball and 9-ball (any rule-set) is like comparing apples and oranges.

Integrity doesn't factor into it.

Yes it does, or else he would not have tried to convice his opponent of there having been an actual miscue, he would have simply handed him the cue ball or pushed it to the lower rail.

-Mike

 

[Cameron Smith]

He isn't talking about missing, he is talking about miscuing on purpose.
Not sure what this means as missing an 8-ball in an 8-ball tournament vice making it is never an advantage.

You said that you would not have missed the eight. My point was sh$t happens.

We are talking about an 8-ball game, and obviously there was no ball in hand on fouls as the opponent chose to try to shoot the 2 after the "miscue" (which on top of the no BIH would stand to say he was a 'D' type player or worse).

Comparing bar room 8-ball and 9-ball (any rule-set) is like comparing apples and oranges.

I wasn't comparing 9 ball and 8 ball to eachother. I was comparing strategic plays. Regardless of what the penalty for the foul is, its the same sort of strategic move. Opting to foul in order to advance your position in a manner of speaking. Its kind of like sacrificing your queen in chess in order to force your opponent into leaving an opening that would secure the win, in a long term sense.

As long as he isn't playing a three foul rule, its a battle of attrition

Yes it does, or else he would not have tried to convice his opponent of there having been an actual miscue, he would have simply handed him the cue ball or pushed it to the lower rail.

-Mike

Its no different than "missing" a ball and having your cue ball come up safe. Most experiance players and hustlers do this against bar room players.

 

[5ballcharlie]

I like it! If you have to play with those goofy rules pull a slick one. I have played in alot of bar rule tournaments and you lose because you cant play a safety. Hell next time that comes up I might wipe all the chalk off my cue and if I get to the table and its a very bad situation then I might play a miscue.

 

[MacGyver]

I agree with others... you don't need to lie in this situation by faking a miscue.


Just spend a little time lining up some 2/3 rail kick so you can hit the 8 first and then just make sure you come up short or miss(or whatever). They can't say it was a safety as you obviously were trying to line up this hard kick shot, and you don't have to pull some fake-miscue or other such nonsense.

Just because there are "no safeties" doesnt mean you can't come up with a shot that will leave you safe when you miss it rather than lieing by miscueing.

Or just feather a 2 rail kick(trying to get it behind the 1) and just leave your cue inside the cluster... all better options than faking a miscue, imho.

 

[MikeH]

You are at the watering hole the rest is up to you.

Everybody misses. Thorsten Hohmann missed the 8 to beat Wu at the World 8 ball Championships.

--You said that you would not have missed the eight. My point was sh$t happens.

Like I said before, not sure why you cited this instead of just saying shit happens, it didn't make sense before and it doesnt bring any validity to your argument.

I wasn't comparing 9 ball and 8 ball to eachother. I was comparing strategic plays. Regardless of what the penalty for the foul is, its the same sort of strategic move. Opting to foul in order to advance your position in a manner of speaking. Its kind of like sacrificing your queen in chess in order to force your opponent into leaving an opening that would secure the win, in a long term sense.

As long as he isn't playing a three foul rule, its a battle of attrition

He was playing barroom 8-ball rules, which correct me if I am wrong would mean he loses by playing the safe?

If the game was not important enough to warrant calling his opponent out for previously playing a safe (nudging the 2 infront of the 8-ball), then why is it not simply a matter of integrity by miscuing on purpose?

If the rules were different then I could see taking full advantage of them, but this isnt APA or BCA...etc. The only rule was no safeties.

Its no different than "missing" a ball and having your cue ball come up safe. Most experiance players and hustlers do this against bar room players.

No, it isn't any different than playing your aforementioned shot, but again, the rules stipulate no safeties, not no non-disguised safeties...so again and loudly this time IT IS ALL ABOUT INTEGRITY.

-Mike

 

[DelaWho???]

Most bar rules (at least where I live) are what they call bush.....Basically APA type rules slop counts and a foul = BIH. I don't have the WEI plugin set up yet but if it's ok to foul on a deliberate miscue....then why not make an attempt to make a legal hit. If it's lockup safety you're giving BIH anyway and then the other guy has to deal with the 2 ball and will drop the 8 in the process. Especially if he plays at my speed or lower.....

McCue Banger McCue

 

[MikeH]

Well.

There is no BIH rule as there are no fouls, you are on your honor to attempt to pocket a ball every shot.

With the Wei setup there was no possible way to legally pocket the 8-ball, thus my saying if it wasn't important enough to call your opp out for having played an intentional safe then it isn't worth faking a miscue.

Toss more coins on the table, talk to a member of the opposite sex, try your hand at darts...there are a million other things to do on a night out.

Bottom line: Cheating is cheating whether your opp. is none-the-wiser or not. Doing such things shows a lack of integrity/character...etc.

But of course this is simply my opinion, and having stated it probably too much on this thread I will move along.

-Mike

***Rides off on the dead horse***

 

[APA7]

You give the worst advice. Ever.

That's why he "I have no financial interest in any billiard related businesses or schools. "

Methinks this guy takes too many bong hits. He's high all the time

Brian

 

[APA7]

Well here is a situation I saw someone else in...

Bar rules 8-ball, no safeties allowed. The player had shot in all his balls, but missed on the 8 and left it hanging. The other player shot one of his balls to completely block the 8 so it looked like the following. What would you do? (The only ball you have to shoot at is the 8, the other balls are your opponent's balls, there are "no rules" as it is a bar rules tournament.)

(BTW the player shot at the 2 which hit the 8 and he lost the game.)

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/

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UR advice reminds me of someone who just got their drivers license and read and thinks about driving a lot and wants to tell people how to drive

How bout just leaving the other guys balls there since he has to bank the 1 and 2 out to win and U should have a shot if he moves 1 of them. Besides whos the idiot that pushed all his balls around the 8 ball???

Brian

 

[Snapshot9]

My .02 cents

No one would get me in that position to begin with. One way to avoid problems is to plan ahead. You are obviously talking about a banger
that thinks they are smart by surrounding the 8 with their balls. A player
would know how to get around that before it happens.

 

[olsonsview]

I agree

An intentional miscue is low. An intentional foul may not be though. Yes you will give ball in hand, so make it tough. Drive the opponents ball someplace that will require a very difficult time to get position on it, or on other balls if he uses the ball in hand to shoot your hard shot you leave him. If he makes a tough shot and wins, hey tip your hat to him and rerack, catch him on the next one!
Or maybe learn the jump shot, or improve your kicking, always better than playing cute...besides you can only pull that one once before everyone has your number!

 

[Gregg]

This is when you are in a situation where shooting your ball or balls will hurt you and will probably give the game away to your opponent.

So what to do? You will lose if you hit your ball(s)...

You actually have an option of *not* hitting your balls.

This is the "intentional" miscue. Take a while to examine the balls for your shot, then get down to shoot...

Several practice strokes for a center ball hit, then with your final stroke, make the tip of your cue hit the top left/right of the cue ball and then tip goes flying up into the air. Cue ball veers to left or right not hitting any balls.

Say "Darn! I'm getting this tip replaced."

Most shooters faced with this situation wouldn't know if a tip is even on the end of their "cue" or not. Ferrel, tip, wood, they are likely to challk up whatever ison on the end of the cue. You would have blown your AZ cover right there!