Basic kicking question

newcuer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Basic kicking question. I want to do a kick shot to hit the yellow ball.

All things being equal, what is the highest percentage kick? A one rail kick off of the end rail to come straight at the object ball? Or a two rail kick off of the end rail and then the long rail?

1000010592.jpg
 
Agreed: jump is the answer for this scenario.

The 8 and 3 block the right lower long rail
The 3 and 7 block the left top long rail
The 2 blocks the right short rail
 
Basic kicking question. I want to do a kick shot to hit the yellow ball.

All things being equal, what is the highest percentage kick? A one rail kick off of the end rail to come straight at the object ball? Or a two rail kick off of the end rail and then the long rail?

View attachment 820033

Multiple rail kicks are often more reliable than single cushion attempts. If nothing else they provide reliable and / or <close to the ball> rail exits. Conversely, one rail kicks involve indeterminate margins of a few degrees and a human.
Multiple rails - near template ball path
Single rail - small section of rubber and human error

That ventured; as stated above, most would just jump the example shot. Higher percentage of contact - if you need a reason.
 
What do you think about the other way?

2 rails, head rail first trying for that left bottom corner?

Hitting the one but missing the pocket would be more likely to leave safe...?
Dave, from the diagram, it seems to me, the 'Plus 2' kick in order to contact the 1 ball the CB has to come very close to the side pocket.

Could easily miss the 1 ball, then the 'Safety' aspect is a moot point!
 
in practice since both are relatively easy and about the same chances of just hitting it. then you choose the one that gives you either and or the best chance of making it or getting safe.
if you are just playing to hit it then you are playing a losing game of pool.
 
1-railer for me. I don't see how a 2-railer is a higher percentage when the ball is away from the rail like that: a rolling CB is going to curve a decent amount coming off that second rail. I think the 2-railer will give your opponent more good shots at the 1-ball than the 1-railer because the 2-railer is kicking the 1-ball towards an open area of the table, where with the 1-railer you are kicking the ball into traffic. I also think the 2-railer will give your opponent ball in hand more often.

Looks like a "Hanger' for a 3C player!
Do you hit that by feel, or do you have a diamond system for calculating the kick?
 
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1-railer for me. I don't see how a 2-railer is a higher percentage when the ball is away from the rail like that: a rolling CB is going to curve a decent amount coming off that second rail. I think the 2-railer will give your opponent more good shots at the 1-ball than the 1-railer because the 2-railer is kicking the 1-ball towards an open area of the table, where with the 1-railer you are kicking the ball into traffic. I also think the 2-railer will give your opponent ball in hand more often.
Familiarity. 2 becomes 3 etc... by the time the ball is on 3, it's pretty much all table. The two railer can be backwards engineered if need be.
 
1 or 2 railer depending on which one is more reliable for you. For situations like this it's all about being realistic about your own skillset. If you don't have a clue what your odds are for either case, you need to kick more.

If the two options are close enough in hit probability for the differences in leave odds to outweight the ball in hand risk, then you can pick the option that provides better leave odds (average difficulty of the shot for your opponent when he returns to the table).
 
I'd probably do the one rail kick.

But if the one ball was closer to the rail, perhaps then 2 rails. I kind of wish I had done that with this diagram for my question.

I guess, I am trying to understand if there is any objective scientific way of determining which kick has the highest percent chance of hitting (Besides just looking at it).
 
I guess, I am trying to understand if there is any objective scientific way of determining which kick has the highest percent chance of hitting (Besides just looking at it).

A few basic principles to keep in mind related to your question:

- The longer the physical distance that the CB travels before hitting the OB, the less margin of error there is for the hit.

- The more rails you need to hit, the harder the hit is to judge on average. An exception for this is that 2-railers, or sometimes even 3-railers might be easier than 1-railers in specific circumstances, if you have practiced 2-3 rail kicks a lot and are good at them. This is due to their somewhat self-correcting nature when keeping up running side during the whole shot, e.g. going long rail -> short rail, whereas long rail -> long rail wouldn't be self-correcting. The idea here is that running side stays if you alternate which rail you hit after eachother, so long -> short or short -> long keeps it, but same rail twice in a row doesn't (long -> long or short -> short).

- Your memory/intuition is very good at determining your personal odds for hitting particular shots. If faced with two shots, where A is 90% of players choice, you should never override your personal experiences with the "correct" shots out of principle. B might still be better for you if you have practiced it more and have a realistic sense of your own chances and favor it over A. Obviously there's a reason why 90% would choose A, and you should practice that shot in the future. But in a real game situation, you will do whatever gives you the best odds at a given time.

- Kicks that are more sensitive to power are less preferable. Avoid side spin unless necessary, especially if elevated. For 1-railers, use a rolling ball. For 2-3 railers that are self-correcting, use running side with top. For 2 railers that are long rail -> long rail or short rail -> short rail, use a rolling ball.

In practice, you are best off trying out various kicking methods, both feel-based and system-based, for various types of shots, and over time building a sense of how likely you are to hit different kicks, then trusting that judgement within game situations. In other words, expertise trumps theory, even if theory was originally used to build expertise.
 
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1-railer for me. I don't see how a 2-railer is a higher percentage when the ball is away from the rail like that: a rolling CB is going to curve a decent amount coming off that second rail. I think the 2-railer will give your opponent more good shots at the 1-ball than the 1-railer because the 2-railer is kicking the 1-ball towards an open area of the table, where with the 1-railer you are kicking the ball into traffic. I also think the 2-railer will give your opponent ball in hand more often.


Do you hit that by feel, or do you have a diamond system for calculating the kick?
The '2-Railer' lays in a 'Natural Track' for the Diamond system.

Even though it has to be 'Adjusted' for a pool table.
 
Additional reading that is very helpful: https://drdavepoolinfo.com/resource_files/dead_aim_kicking_academy.pdf

There is an absolute ton of information in that. I would imagine it would take a months to memorize it all and several months to practice it til proficiency. It's a treasure trove for kicking but it's not easy by any means. Several systems to remember and actually put table time into but once you do, good luck to any opponent trying to get BIH. I highly recommend printing that out and practicing each until you can make a good hit on most attempts.

There are other systems but for pool table use vs billiard table this is the most complete collection I've seen. He even talks about speed and things like not just bumping a ball to leave an opponent an easy shot. Adjusting for tables, etc.

In pool I absolutely hate "just going for a hit." You have to make something happen in your favor. I like to think of kicking the same way you would use a turn at the 1P table. Try to make something happen and push the game in your favor, be that through making the ball, getting a safety in return etc.
 
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