That is simply wrong.
BCA 8-ball rules question
- Thread starter cuetechasaurus
- Start date
That is simply wrong.
I trimmed down your post to include the only relevant facts.
Fact 1: No direct shot. AKA, no obvious shot of an object ball directly to a pocket.
Fact 2: No ball called, no safety called.
Fact 3: An OB was made via carom - an indirect shot that requires being called.
Since all non direct shots MUST be called, and your opponent did not call a shot nor call safe - then your opponent's turn at the table is OVER.
It's that simple. Done.
You have the right to ask your opponent his intentions; however, it isn't your responsibility to ensure that a shot is called. It's the shooter's responsibility. They don't call it, they lose their turn.
There's no controversy. BCA rules are the best rules in the world because they account for every situation. It's extremely and exceedingly rare to run into a situation that isn't covered by the rules in a clear and direct manner.
If and when that does happen, those situations quickly become hot topics of discussion among the pros and the experts as well as other high level enthusiasts of the game. As a result, the matter is taken up by the "governing" bodies of the game and new wording or new rule is written to deal with the issue.
i could be wrong here (and if i am i am sure someone will point it out) but current rules do not specify what an "obvious" shot is or is not. they leave out the whole bank, combo, carom, etc...
obvious shots are different for different pple. if both the OP and his opponent saw this carom then the shot was obvious to both of them. for the OP its obvious that his opponent is a cheater. he was trying to make the carom, made it and then was hooked and then said he called safe. a safe isnt called until your opponent acknowledges it. the OPs opponent should have been still at the table dealing with the unintentional hook.
brian
obvious shots are different for different pple. if both the OP and his opponent saw this carom then the shot was obvious to both of them. for the OP its obvious that his opponent is a cheater. he was trying to make the carom, made it and then was hooked and then said he called safe. a safe isnt called until your opponent acknowledges it. the OPs opponent should have been still at the table dealing with the unintentional hook.
brian
Lots of good information on here so far.
Here is the answer for BCA Rules.
The shot was not an obvious shot therefore if he made a ball or not it was your turn after the balls stopped rolling. He didn't foul, so you don't get ball-in-hand. There is absolutely zero reason for him to call safe on the shot. Doing so would do absolutely nothing. In 8-ball you only really need to call safe if you are going to shoot an obvious ball in the pocket.
At the National BCA Tournament in 2008 they had amended a rule that said all non-obvious shots had to be called. It stated something like any Kick, Carom, Bank or Combination were not obvious shots and should always be called.
Here is the answer for BCA Rules.
The shot was not an obvious shot therefore if he made a ball or not it was your turn after the balls stopped rolling. He didn't foul, so you don't get ball-in-hand. There is absolutely zero reason for him to call safe on the shot. Doing so would do absolutely nothing. In 8-ball you only really need to call safe if you are going to shoot an obvious ball in the pocket.
At the National BCA Tournament in 2008 they had amended a rule that said all non-obvious shots had to be called. It stated something like any Kick, Carom, Bank or Combination were not obvious shots and should always be called.
just curious as to how you would define "obvious". the rule book eliminates the "bank, kiss, combo" etc... verbiage. the OP and his opponent both saw the shot. it was the only shot available. doesnt that make it the obvious shot?
brian
No it doesn't.
2009-2010 BCA Rule Book
Obvious Shots
A shot in which the non-shooting player has no doubt as to, or does not question, the called ball and the called pocket. The following types of shots are exceptions and are defined as being "not obvious":
a. bank shots;
b. kick shots;
c. combination shots;
The list is not necessarily all-inclusive. For other shots, the referee is the sole judge of whether a shot is obvious or not.
Lisa =====> wondering if she's the only one who gets, keeps, and actually reads her BCAPL mini rule book...heck, they're included with your BCAPL membership.
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Wow!....well, that would certainly explain a lot! LoL!!!
Lisa
Lisa
whoa
Permission to use this quote for my sig line.
Brian in the kangeroo court court I hearby sentence you to read every AZ thread ever posted
Permission to use this quote for my sig line.
Brian in the kangeroo court court I hearby sentence you to read every AZ thread ever posted
Permission to use this quote for my sig line.
Brian in the kangeroo court court I hearby sentence you to read every AZ thread ever posted
not sure how to take your post.
what if i already have?
brian=>shouldnt confuse world standardized rules with league rules...
The reality is this:
Every few days there is another rules thread, and usually it involves questions concerning BCA rules.
Now I KNOW that every league that joins the BCAPL is sent a current BCA rule book, in a mini size to handily fit into a case pocket, a current session patch, and each player gets a membership card with a membership #.
So, for so many people to have so many rules questions just leaves me scratchin' my noodle...the answer should be right in your case! I mean, I do get the whole male 'won't read the instruction manual' or 'won't stop to ask for directions' thing....but seriously, when the answer is so close at hand, whether it be via the handy dandy rule book or the online access to the rules...it just makes no sense to me.
I carry my rule book with me every time I go out to play...but then again, I also call every ball and pocket, whether necessary or not....an ounce of prevention and all.
Lisa =====> never runs into these types of problems.
Every few days there is another rules thread, and usually it involves questions concerning BCA rules.
Now I KNOW that every league that joins the BCAPL is sent a current BCA rule book, in a mini size to handily fit into a case pocket, a current session patch, and each player gets a membership card with a membership #.
So, for so many people to have so many rules questions just leaves me scratchin' my noodle...the answer should be right in your case! I mean, I do get the whole male 'won't read the instruction manual' or 'won't stop to ask for directions' thing....but seriously, when the answer is so close at hand, whether it be via the handy dandy rule book or the online access to the rules...it just makes no sense to me.
I carry my rule book with me every time I go out to play...but then again, I also call every ball and pocket, whether necessary or not....an ounce of prevention and all.
Lisa =====> never runs into these types of problems.
blah blah
Shoebat
I have that book, love it, and keep it in my case, too.
But I joined a BCA league this season (we started last week). The day before our first match, we received the rules that will replace some of the BCA rules. These included (and I paste some of the weirdest):
Legal Shots:
--Push shots are legal. (They are not legal in BCA Tournaments).
--A masse shot as long as the hand holding the butt of the stick is under the armpit.
--Moving a ball. If any stationary balls, that sit between player and cue ball, are accidentally moved by the player with any part of the body, clothing, jewelry, cue stick, mechanical bridge, chalk, etc. the opponent has the option of moving the ball back to its original position or leaving it where it sits. Player at table continues to shoot after determination of ball has been executed. (this isn't weird until you look at the list of fouls)
--Touching a stationary ball that sits between player and cue ball (again, this isn't weird until you look at the list of fouls)
Fouls:
--Jump shots---(At BCA Tournaments Jump shots are legal only when executed in front of a referee).
--If a safety shot is called and executed by player (Legal at BCA Tournaments)
--Touching or moving any balls in front of or to the sides of the cue ball [emphasis added]
--Teammates telling a player if he/she has stripes or solids even if player asks (Player should pay attention to his/her game)
HOWEVER:
--Scratch Shots: A scratch on the break is not a foul. When the player scratches the cue ball on the break, his opponent has ball in hand behind the head string. The base of the ball must be behind the head string. When a player is placing the cue ball behind the head string and uses his cue stick to do so, it is not a foul. If the cue stick hits the cue ball and it does not cross the head string, it is not considered a shot. If the cue ball does cross the head string it is considered a shot. When a player has the cue ball in hand behind the head string and his only balls are within the head string, player’s only option is a kick shot. When a player scratches he/she will announce that they have done so to the opponent. [emphasis added]
I made sure to loudly announce to absolutely everybody when I scratched (although I really did think they should be paying enough attention to their game to notice the cueball was missing from the table). And I couldn't get a clear definition of a push shot after three emailed attempts with YouTube videos.
I've been irritated ever since we got the new rules. I'm trying to just keep a sense of humor.
blah blah
Shoebat
Lolol. Honestly, I think they mean when you call Safety, make one of your balls, and then expect your inning to be over. I'm only guessing, though, because I copied and pasted the entire rule right there.
...On the larger issue, yes, I do strongly agree with you. But for humor value, I will quote a friend, who ends every single argument, whether it applies or not, even whether anyone agrees or not, with the statement:
THAT'S why they need to legalize marijuana!
Under BCAPl it is pretty well defined. Any kick, carom, bank or combination is not obvious and must be called.
For my own purposes, i will also call any shot which is not a hanger or a simple direct line shot to a pocket.
I want my opponent to know what I am doing and do everything i can to be sure he does.
On the other side, if I am not absolutely sure what my opponent is doing on a shot, I ask before the shot. If he is shooting and simple one rail kick and forgot to call it, I ask before the shot.
That is entirely absurd. Alot of those rule changes are idiotic to anyone with a sense of the game and why the standard BCA rules are the way they are.
This type of regionalization in rules within a structured league framework of the BCA should flat out not be allowed. If you run a BCA sanctioned league you should use the standard BCA rules such as are used in Vegas, where people playing that league might actually end up and then have no clue as to the proper rule set as it is SUPPOSED to be.
The BCAPL needs to clamp down and stop this type of regional variation, the lack of a specific and consistent rule set for the game is one of the key hurdles in this game becomming more accepted.
I sure would like to know who the league operator is. I would like to give them a call. If someone knows, give me a call or email me at bill@playcsipool.com.
Bill Stock
BCA Pool League
Director of Referees
Rules Administrator
702-719-7665