BCA Hall Of SHAME: No Ronnie Allen?

[AndyG]

Blud, I agree that Ronnie was the all time Mr. One-Pocket! Anyone who hasn't heard him holler out ' racky-sacky' or singing 'I need a ball, and you need um all" can't appreciate how good this guy was.

One remark that I remember well: Ronnie was giving Mike Carella 10-7 in Birmingham, AL in 1975 0r 1976. Mike needed 1 and Ronnie need 10. Ronnie got a shot and announced " I've run 10 and out so many times it makes me sick" and proceeded to do so.

AndyG

 

[hemicudas]

Manleyshot & AndyG,,,,Thanks guys. I was hoping Blud and I were not going to be the only people old enough to have seen Ronnie Allen play in his prime.

Manleyshot, Blud has the answers to the process of the BCA and wheather there are any sites regarding the BCA. They haven't seen fit to give me a vote, lol. Might be the best thing too, because if I had a vote I would not only be pushing for Ronnie Allen's induction but Leonard "Buggs" Rucker too. You try and find someone who beat "Buggs" playing banks whos name isn't Eddie Taylor. You might ask Blud how "Buggs" played.

I could have spent a week at this keyboard and never come up with a post as prophetic as the one Manleyshot just posted. My hat is off to you sir...Amen and Amen.

 

[blud]

Right on Andy, and $Bill, bet he never heard of Benzingers either?

Guys of today just are clueless as to who could do what in the past.

It's impossible to compare who to whoever, unless you saw them square off.. But, some sit back and become experts, over night, and talk just to hear themselves talk......

Anyone who didn't respect Ronnies game, were two things, a sucker and a broke one at that.


On a 5X10 Red was the best. Any thing else, no contest, RA, was KING...

I sweated the action at LeCue on Fannin St. in down town houston for several years. [ If not at LeCue, we were at TJ's], ...
TJ -PARKERS, on Washinton St. TJ's is also gone. So is Country.

Red, Freight train, Grady, Cole, Ronnie, Eddie, Richie and many more. Now that was pool folks. 24 hour action 24-7 for several years.

I had the pleasure of meeting most of the greats back then. Talk about action. man, it was a blast..

In referance to my post about Grady and freight train, the bet was, Grady would spot the train, 1 hot dog going to 10.
No contest, Grady collected the 2 dimes. [for you squares, the bet was $1,000.00 each, a dime is $1,000.00]

I saw train, bet his shoes for $3.00 while playing.
He would bet on anything and also bet anything, he owned.

He stayed and lived at the Montague Hotel for about 4 years. It was 2 blocks from the action.

One night we went around town from pool room to pool room, and we went to my home for super, hell he ate a hole chicken by his self. Janice had to go buy another one for the children. Freight train was a nice guy, and fun to sweat..

Grady, i met breifly in houston, some 30 odd years ago. Watched him play. He was a hell of a player also. About 20 years or so ago, grady and i hoisted the World All Around in Tampa. We lost about 25 dimes on the event, but we paid off at the conclusion of the tournament, and went down the road. We have been great friends for years. Grady has some great stories also. What a guy..




I had the pleasure of seeing Red most every day, for about 20 years, untill I moved to west texas.

Red, would come to my shop and tell story after story each day. I would repair an old cue he traded for and he would take a couple of Blud's with him, and the within the next day or so, bring the cash and off selling cues and telling stories, again.. Great guy and one a hell of a player. He could run out from any where........Always said Ronnie was the best.


I was on a road trip, and Janice called me and told me of Red's passing. I came home and went straight to the parlor about 3:00 AM and saw Red for the last time. I put a 20 spot and a piece of chalk in his pocket. He now had a couple of barrels for action. [maybe St. Pete].
God bless Red .
blud

 

[hemicudas]

Blud, amen on the God bless Red.

 

[Purdman]

My man Blud has heart and soul. Proud to know ya buddy.
Don P.

 

[Joseph Cues]

Blud, thanks for the compliment.
I am 40 years old.
I will ask Little Al since he's played both players.

 

[hemicudas]

Iterating yourself aren't you JC?

 

[blud]

My good friend, Leonard Buggs" Rucker was and is still a hell of a banker and played one hole real goooood.
He also played with a "BLUD" cue for several years.
blud

 

[Joseph Cues]

Iterating yourself aren't you JC?

I'll prolly re-iterate too.
Funny Blud mentioned Bugs ( or is it Buggs). I just saw a video of Gary Spaeth and Leonard playing bank ball. Leonard had one fine stroke and banked like God.

 

[jayz]

Hemi,
OK, I'll ask Little Al Romero who the best one-holer is.
Little Al beat Ronnie one time in LA. Ronnie was being staked by the pool hall owner. The pool hall owner lost his rent money and his pool hall.

Al might have beaten Ronnie, but he was definitely not the favorite playing Ronnie EVEN back then. If you ask him I'm sure he'd say he would have needed a spot. That is two-handed. If Ronnie played one-handed to Al's two hands, Al couldn't spot him very much at all.

Back in the 60's, I watched Ronnie Allen spot good shortstops 10 to 7 playing one-pocket and "steal" the money. I have seen him run "10 and out" too many times to count. All of this might sound like "no big deal" but he did this playing one-handed to their two hands.

As far as his one-handed one-pocket game, with his knowledge and his awesome talent in kicking at balls, he probably was the best. He kicked so accurately at balls, probably because of his years of playing golf on a snooker table, which he also didn't have very many challenges in. I'm sure there are one-handed players who could and would beat him playing nine-ball in his prime.

As far as "business" games, I am sure there are very few players (if any) in the Hall of Fame that have never lost a game on purpose hustling for a higher bet, a railbird's side-bet or a previous arrangement. The very nature of making a living at pool as a road player in the fifties through the seventies lent itself to these tactics. And I'm sure it still goes on today. Is "laying down" when playing someone to convince him or people watching that they have a chance to win not as serious a deception as throwing a game when a backer puts up the money? Kind of like being a little bit pregnant. You either are, or you're not.

 

[Jimmy M.]

This reminds me of the old-timers who would tell you till they were blue in the face that Wilt the Stilt was better than MJ! Fortunately, unlike pool, there is plenty of video of those players in their primes for us young, dumb (or whatever Blud was saying) kids to see for ourselves.

 

[blud]

Never meant young and dumb. Just some folks write about "tales" not knowing what they are writting about is the truth or not,a. just hear say. didn't mean to offend you.
blud

 

[bruin70]

for all you one pocket fans and "old timers" . i'm posting an email that might stir some memories................

"Ervolino ranks them as follows:

1-Hayden Lingo
2-Eugene "Clem" Metz
Rags Fitzpatrick - tie
3-Ronnie Allen
4-Johnny Layton (also a top billiard player)
5-Harold Worst
6-Jack Breit "Jersey Red"

Johnny Ervolino proudly claimed that at his
best, Allen couldn't spot him. That's saying
a lot about Ronnie Allen.
Larry Johnson "Boston Shorty" won more
one pocket titles than anyone in history, and
yet all the top gamblers would beat him, giving
him 9-7.""

 

[hemicudas]

Manlyshot, sorry, I forgot your question about the "Plastic Balls" Red referred to. What he was talking about was since the late 1920s or 1930s when they stopped using Ivory balls. In other words, Ronnie can't be compaired to Ralph Greenfeaf because Ralph played with Ivory or clay balls in his day.

 

[JMB]

mr. bludworth - thanks for your reply about my burlington post. still have not received any data on that tournament. reference ronnie allen, at the above mentioned burlington tourney, i watched ronnie play rempe one pocket for the cash, rempe murdered him that time - ronnie had a backer that supposedly owned points in santa anita track. some days later dennis scearcy - not sure of the spelling} but you know the player also beat him even - quite easy. everybody can make your own conclusion. there was a lot of talk about you know what - i did watch both matches. JMB

 

[jjinfla]

Did you guys read the article about Eddie Kelly in BD? It seems that Ronnie Allen was his road partner and also who the movie "Baltimore Bullet" was based on. "Allen played anybody one-pocket, snooker, golf on a snooker table, or one-handed proposition games." "No matter what game the player mentioned" Kelly says, "the guy was dead".

Sounds like those two were one hell of a one two punch.

Jake---old enough, but didn't know pool existed back then.

 

[hemicudas]

Ed Kelly

Thanks for the post Jake.

There you go JC. Believe another Hall Of Famer? Ed Kelly and so many others know Ronnie Allen was the greatest One Pocket player ever. Remember, Ed Kelly won many One Pocket tournaments himself. If not he wouldn't be in the HOF. Hurts to be wrong doesn't it JC? You are still YOUNG enough to learn though.

 

[Joseph Cues]

Re: Ed Kelly

Thanks for the post Jake.

There you go JC. Believe another Hall Of Famer? Ed Kelly and so many others know Ronnie Allen was the greatest One Pocket player ever. Remember, Ed Kelly won many One Pocket tournaments himself. If not he wouldn't be in the HOF. Hurts to be wrong doesn't it JC? You are still YOUNG enough to learn though.

Am I missing something here?
Bruin claims Ervolino Lingo was the best .
Since this all hypothetical, it's a waste of time now.
I think Sugar Ray Robinson, born Walker Smith, was the best fighter ever. Now, how do I prove that? How can I prove he'd beat Roy Jones or Marvin Hagler at 160? How????
I never said Allen did not deserve to be in the Hall. I said Matthews and DiLiberto should get in first. These two have been ambassadors to the sport of pool for a long time.
Does it hurt to be wrong? Not really. It's not the first time or the last time.
p.s. To the people here who get fits over an opinion, take a valium or something.
This turned out to be another pissing contest.
There have been a few of those here of late.

 

[hemicudas]

This reminds me of the old-timers who would tell you till they were blue in the face that Wilt the Stilt was better than MJ! Fortunately, unlike pool, there is plenty of video of those players in their primes for us young, dumb (or whatever Blud was saying) kids to see for ourselves.

It's not quite the same thing Jim. Wilt and MJ are "BOTH" in the HOF. If us older Scuffs, Fans, Players, Touring Pros, Champions, HOF Members and YES, even Cue Makers don't push for the induction of A Champion that beat literally everyone in his day, you can't expect the younger BCA members who have never seen Ronnie Allen play or if they have, think he played the same speed when he was 22 years old that he does now.

I wont ask you BCA members to believe me, a mere former shortstop or even a master cue maker like Blud but when you hear that Ronnie Allen was the greatest One Pocket player ever from the likes of Jimmy Reed, Jersey Red, Ed Kelly, Buddy Hall, David Howard, Eddie Taylor, Keith McCready and the best unknown player of my era and Johnston City regular, Sonny Springer. You must listen.

 

[bruin70]

Re: Re: Ed Kelly

Am I missing something here?
Bruin claims Ervolino Lingo was the best .

.

well,,,that was johnny ervolino's list. i can't tell 1hole from the hole in my head.

interesting thing about praise,,,,,,it can be ego based, and there's a lot of ego in pool. contemporaries aren't too giving about heaping praise on their peers.....i mean TRUE peers. they prefer instead, to lay praise elsewhere, away from controversy or giving their true rivals credit. baryshnikov was once asked who was the greatest dancer, and he answered "fred astaire". he didn't say "nureyev", who was his peer...he laid praise elsewhere and away from nureyev.