Beating a "somewhat" dead horse. (Re: the state of our sport)
- Thread starter inside_english
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Very glad to hear it, well not the 106 part but it's no picnic here @ 100% humidity either.
Doing well , thanks. Come back anytime...please.
Thanks for the perspective.
Now...how many foosball halls are going out of business and closing down?
How many foosball players are looking for sponsorship?
How many foosball leagues are there?
How many movies have been made where the focus is foosball?
I think pool is slightly more popular and has been around a little longer?
Back to my OP...pool CAN be more than what it is...and if you still think nothing is wrong with the state of pool you must not own a pool room, or you have not shown up for a tournament and been the only one there.
Comparing pool to foosball is like comparing NASCAR to Go-Karts...or comparing Poker to Gin Rummy.
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You mentioned something about people "whining about the state of pool".
Well, how about THIS thread?
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=237207
Still think pool is not in trouble?
My note on Facebook:
PROMOTE "OUR" SPORT (BILLIARDS) - THE ONUS IS ON "US"
I have been asked by many people why mass media does not support "our" sport. I don't know if that will ever happen here in the states. Many have tried and many have failed. I see live streaming as a way to promote it because --> "we" the players are running things in that regard. I ofttimes said, and heard from many others, "the problem with pool players are the players themselves". If "we" players come to that realization and start promoting what "we" can control (live streams) and do so in a positive and supportive way ... then "we" have a chance as once the crowds grow sponsors will come in tow. It's a numbers game really.
When I started my stream list at Ustream and posting it at AZBilliards I had only about a dozen or so streamers. I now have over 800. So it is growing! The broadcasters are improving their equipment and things are coming along .. not at the pace "we'd" all like to see, but an upward pace nonetheless. Most stream out of the goodness of their hearts, the love for the game, and on their own nickel. Some have limited sponsorship -- most of which are pool related businesses with limited advertising funds. Once "we" grow the audience then HOPEFULLY non-pool related businesses will jump on board with their deeper pockets and then it's off to the races. I would love to see, not to far in the future, a dedicated server strictly for anything felt related (all disciplines) and form what I like to call a "Feltnation" for "all things pool, and nothing but pool so help me God". I even came up with a name for that server/site: "Felt Central". It's a dream, albeit a wishful dream at this point, but one that "I'll" do my damnedest to try and live out ... the question is, will "you"?
So, "Feltnation" quit your nay-saying and go to that list below, join all the crowds, become familiar with all the features at Ustream (don't hesitate to ask me for help in that regard), check the Live Stream Area http://forums.azbilliards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=77 and the front page of AZ Billiards www.azbilliards.com, and support the streams via your participation and promotion of same.
MUSCLE MEMORY FOR POOL STREAMS:
Step 1. Sign in.
Step 2. Hit the Twitter and Facebook icons directly underneath the video and get the word out.
Step 3. Be positive and supportive in the chat (there are always minors, future players, sponsors/possible sponsors around!).
Step 4. Enjoy yourself!!!
(Instructors may want to go on Skype with their student(s) and use a stream as a training tool. I have and it works well! Moderators can coordinate things instantaneously, wolfers can wolf, and rail-bird$ can be rail-bird$! Works great when you want to interact with just a few friends and not want to deal with the chat which can get a bit busy/be in a foreign language!)
Together we, the "Feltnation", can make a difference. All "we" have to do is -- quit complaining and do it!
NOTE: Many of the streams on the list are not what you might call quality; however, with "our" support, encouragement, and positive attitude that can change. More and more are getting proficient and the quality of many are of TV quality .. that goes for commentary as well .. remember, "we" are dealing with family members here (members of the "Feltnation") that are just trying to get "our" sport out there.
Wouldn't it be nice if the amount of viewership increased to the point where "we" could all chip in a small amount of cheese each and put two people of "our" choosing in the box on a monthly basis .. it is possible! There is power in numbers -- there are over 31,000 on AZ Billiards alone! That's another note I may touch on later (along with some other things) ... but for now, "GIT-R-DONE"!
STREAM LIST LINK AND INSTRUCTIONS:
You will have in minutes what took me hundreds and hundreds of hours to accumulate simply by following these two easy steps. As of this writing, I have 835 streams and over 18,000 recorded videos.
Step 1: Go to http://www.ustream.tv/user/cmbwsu/crowds, click on the icons at the right on "each" page until a big check mark appears. (Check back from time-to-time for any new ones which will appear at top. No need to go through all the pages again!)
Step 2: Go to your Dashboard by clicking your username at the top right of the page. Scroll down to the bottom right and click on "Live Now" -->BOOKMARK THIS PAGE! If anyone is live streaming at the time you enter they will automatically appear there. This is where the recorded "pool only" videos are as well (off to the left at the red dot). If you know of any stream on Ustream that is not on the list please let me know and I will add it ....'nuff said and enjoy!
Bob Cmbwsu
EDIT: I posted this on FB on June 30 and the stream list went from 835 (as stated above) to over 840!!!
PROMOTE "OUR" SPORT (BILLIARDS) - THE ONUS IS ON "US"
I have been asked by many people why mass media does not support "our" sport. I don't know if that will ever happen here in the states. Many have tried and many have failed. I see live streaming as a way to promote it because --> "we" the players are running things in that regard. I ofttimes said, and heard from many others, "the problem with pool players are the players themselves". If "we" players come to that realization and start promoting what "we" can control (live streams) and do so in a positive and supportive way ... then "we" have a chance as once the crowds grow sponsors will come in tow. It's a numbers game really.
When I started my stream list at Ustream and posting it at AZBilliards I had only about a dozen or so streamers. I now have over 800. So it is growing! The broadcasters are improving their equipment and things are coming along .. not at the pace "we'd" all like to see, but an upward pace nonetheless. Most stream out of the goodness of their hearts, the love for the game, and on their own nickel. Some have limited sponsorship -- most of which are pool related businesses with limited advertising funds. Once "we" grow the audience then HOPEFULLY non-pool related businesses will jump on board with their deeper pockets and then it's off to the races. I would love to see, not to far in the future, a dedicated server strictly for anything felt related (all disciplines) and form what I like to call a "Feltnation" for "all things pool, and nothing but pool so help me God". I even came up with a name for that server/site: "Felt Central". It's a dream, albeit a wishful dream at this point, but one that "I'll" do my damnedest to try and live out ... the question is, will "you"?
So, "Feltnation" quit your nay-saying and go to that list below, join all the crowds, become familiar with all the features at Ustream (don't hesitate to ask me for help in that regard), check the Live Stream Area http://forums.azbilliards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=77 and the front page of AZ Billiards www.azbilliards.com, and support the streams via your participation and promotion of same.
MUSCLE MEMORY FOR POOL STREAMS:
Step 1. Sign in.
Step 2. Hit the Twitter and Facebook icons directly underneath the video and get the word out.
Step 3. Be positive and supportive in the chat (there are always minors, future players, sponsors/possible sponsors around!).
Step 4. Enjoy yourself!!!
(Instructors may want to go on Skype with their student(s) and use a stream as a training tool. I have and it works well! Moderators can coordinate things instantaneously, wolfers can wolf, and rail-bird$ can be rail-bird$! Works great when you want to interact with just a few friends and not want to deal with the chat which can get a bit busy/be in a foreign language!)
Together we, the "Feltnation", can make a difference. All "we" have to do is -- quit complaining and do it!
NOTE: Many of the streams on the list are not what you might call quality; however, with "our" support, encouragement, and positive attitude that can change. More and more are getting proficient and the quality of many are of TV quality .. that goes for commentary as well .. remember, "we" are dealing with family members here (members of the "Feltnation") that are just trying to get "our" sport out there.
Wouldn't it be nice if the amount of viewership increased to the point where "we" could all chip in a small amount of cheese each and put two people of "our" choosing in the box on a monthly basis .. it is possible! There is power in numbers -- there are over 31,000 on AZ Billiards alone! That's another note I may touch on later (along with some other things) ... but for now, "GIT-R-DONE"!
STREAM LIST LINK AND INSTRUCTIONS:
You will have in minutes what took me hundreds and hundreds of hours to accumulate simply by following these two easy steps. As of this writing, I have 835 streams and over 18,000 recorded videos.
Step 1: Go to http://www.ustream.tv/user/cmbwsu/crowds, click on the icons at the right on "each" page until a big check mark appears. (Check back from time-to-time for any new ones which will appear at top. No need to go through all the pages again!)
Step 2: Go to your Dashboard by clicking your username at the top right of the page. Scroll down to the bottom right and click on "Live Now" -->BOOKMARK THIS PAGE! If anyone is live streaming at the time you enter they will automatically appear there. This is where the recorded "pool only" videos are as well (off to the left at the red dot). If you know of any stream on Ustream that is not on the list please let me know and I will add it ....'nuff said and enjoy!
Bob Cmbwsu
EDIT: I posted this on FB on June 30 and the stream list went from 835 (as stated above) to over 840!!!
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Who Cares? Stop your whining and rack em'!
I care, I care a lot. If my putting in the time and effort to promote our sport is whining ... I'll whine like a pig all freaking day if that's what it takes.
I think poker is hot and mainstream because it's so accessible. All you need to play poker is a deck of cards. You don't even need a table. If you want to bet, fine, bet money or potato chips or french fries or whatever, cigarettes in prison. Nobody ever complains about the quality of the cards unless they're marked or torn.
Golf is hot and mainstream because... golf isn't hot and mainstream. It's just well funded, well televized, and well-attended because it has its major and minor tournaments yearly with a boatload of coverage and the courses themselves are gorgeous.
Pool, on the other hand, is neither accessible nor gorgeous. It's actually impossible for a bar fight to break out on a golf course. Like, by definition, it can't happen. Poker and pool, though, certainly lend themselves to fisticuffs, except pool players are armed, too...
Here's a thought for television coverage of pool tournaments as opposed to golf and poker tournaments. In golf and poker, the coverage flits lightly from hand to hand or shot to shot. In pool, there's a "tv table" and everybody else plays in the dark, media-wise. Why not televise every table, the way poker does, so you can move from rack to rack, catch up on a great runout, watch an amazing shot, get a recap of the great plays of the day? Pool is boring on TV because you're watching the same two people for the whole broadcast. Spread out the field, show us what's actually going on.
If Pool, Poker & Pain actually becomes a reality show as planned -- will pool be presented in a positive light? I'm on the fence about it right now. Sure hope it doesn't reinforce the preconceived negative Hollywood image displayed to date!
i think the inherent problem with these threads is that they are almost proof positive that all we want to do is post a thread or email somebody to improve pool. youve got to get out there, make a call, write a letter... actually DO stuff. these threads wont do anything.... good or bad, nothing will happen. that is just the truth. i think the root of the problem is we all know pool is going nowhere in the US. we dont believe in pool ourseleves deep down. really ask yourself honestly if you believe in pool... this is why you cant motivate because the answer is no. if a thread were to help, i think it would be something along the lines of "lets gather here to show our support" or lets all write letter to so and so" but that never happens. dont get me wrong i want pool to do well, but i dont think threads like this are the answer-- they have actually proven not to be.
somebody asked "Why did poker become hot and mainstream?"
i think the answer here is simple.... poker takes no skill, and the vast majority of people have no time... they cant be burdened with having to play 10 hours a day for 5 years to be good at something. why should they when they have poker?
i think the answer here is simple.... poker takes no skill, and the vast majority of people have no time... they cant be burdened with having to play 10 hours a day for 5 years to be good at something. why should they when they have poker?
Excellent post, I agree with most of it, except I do believe pool's viability as a pro sport is weak because of its reputation--which it (we) went out of our way to earn.
First of all, there is nothing "wrong" with pool. IMHO, pool is pool. Period. It was NEVER a viable career, never intended to be. Our very best players die paupers and we pass a hat or hold a memorial tournament to help the family bury them. Comparing it to golf or pro tennis is wrong...how many folks on this board glorify the dark, cool gambling reputation that the sport has earned over the past 150 years? Virtually every pop culture portrayal focuses on that aspect, because a story about the game itself would bore everyone but us diehards. Popular culture will always associate pool with the dark side of life because it's very compelling. And a huge number of pool players throughout the years have gone out of their way to earn that reputation. Want a Pro Tour that pays like the PGA? So long as our game is associated with illegal gambling, drugs, violence, cons, etc., companies like Ford, Pepsi, Rolex, you name it won't come near it with a nickel. Would you? As to gambling, don't get me wrong, some of the players I admire most are or were big time road players (gamblers)...but they're not going to sell the game to Proctor and Gamble.
Other successful sports have their bad actors, but the sport never gets the blame. A pro baseball player or golfer gets busted for possession/distribution of controlled substances and does time in prison, it's an aberration. It's blamed on him having too much money, being spoiled, etc., but NEVER is it golf's or baseball's fault. A couple of our top players do it, and it's no surprise to the public..."what did you expect? they're pool players!"
OBTW, high stakes poker on TV was mainly sponsored by online gambling...now that the feds have attacked that, let's see how long that lasts.
I hold no illusions. Give me a nice local tournament, regional tournament, and keep the U.S. Open open and I'm more than satisfied. Hell, just give me a nice, local pool room where I can knock them around whenever I have time/desire and I'm satisfied. I'm glad the sport is so diverse in terms of availability, accessibility, skill levels, competition, etc. that anyone with a love for the game can find a niche to fill and have a blast, whether it be leagues, pro tours, money match ups, or just your basement. I still love our game, warts and all!
My point is Pool is what it is. I LOVE pool. Most of us do, or we wouldn't be on this site. But the truth is pool was more popular 100 years ago than it is today. The billiards industry has been trending down for a long, long time. It is very tough to buck a trend like that, as it reflects the buying habits of the country as a whole. It has become a niche pastime popular with only a limited number of folks who actually spend money on the sport.
Just because it's not popular doesn't mean it ain't "Cool".
I don't care, I love it, and I play it, Popular or not.
Good comments. I agree.
Thank you for sharing. More good comments.
Very true...
I like your comments about poker. I'm going to use some in my blog soon. Thank you for sharing - good points!
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this is the secret to pool right here posted by walrus
Here's a thought for television coverage of pool tournaments as opposed to golf and poker tournaments. In golf and poker, the coverage flits lightly from hand to hand or shot to shot. In pool, there's a "tv table" and everybody else plays in the dark, media-wise. Why not televise every table, the way poker does, so you can move from rack to rack, catch up on a great runout, watch an amazing shot, get a recap of the great plays of the day? Pool is boring on TV because you're watching the same two people for the whole broadcast. Spread out the field, show us what's actually going on.
I love pool, but I've fallen asleep watching my favorite player. they were playing for $10,000.00 on PPV and I was nodding off...
Here's a thought for television coverage of pool tournaments as opposed to golf and poker tournaments. In golf and poker, the coverage flits lightly from hand to hand or shot to shot. In pool, there's a "tv table" and everybody else plays in the dark, media-wise. Why not televise every table, the way poker does, so you can move from rack to rack, catch up on a great runout, watch an amazing shot, get a recap of the great plays of the day? Pool is boring on TV because you're watching the same two people for the whole broadcast. Spread out the field, show us what's actually going on.
I love pool, but I've fallen asleep watching my favorite player. they were playing for $10,000.00 on PPV and I was nodding off...
Like Trig, I agree. "It is very tough to buck a trend like that" as you say; however, I am of the belief that if it can be turned around, "we", the Feltnation, are the only ones that can get-the-ball-rolling in that regard (see my post of my facebook note above entitled: PROMOTE "OUR" SPORT (BILLIARDS) - THE ONUS IS ON "US").
Trig & 9 on the snap (and others): Am I wrong ... am I spending way too much time toward a losing cause ... should I cease and desist as it's a lost cause ... or should I just keep-on keeping-on? These are serious questions for me as I have spent thousand of hours over the past few years doing what I can as an individual trying to make even the smallest dent in the right direction. I am willing and ready to put in thousands more; however, I sometimes feel like the proverbial guy that keeps banging his head against the wall sometimes :banghead: and that what I've done and am willing to do in the future is/will be an exercise in futility. I sincerely don't want to give the whole thing up as a lost cause -- I just can't give up like that --> I just can't. Perhaps I'm just glutton for punishment... too willing to believe that it can change to the better if "we" just come to the realization that as a group "we" can turn things around. Naive? Perhaps! So, what say you two (and others) -- should I just stop what I'm doing (promoting the game via live streams) and be able to actually watch a set once in awhile ... come to the realization that things are just too insurmountable/abyssal to overcome ... or dredge on through the blood, guts, and tears?
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We aren't saying anyone should stop promoting pool OR doing what they love.
I am just saying (personally, to me) pool isn't broken, but I also think it will take more than just us to make it mainstream.
I still love pool, always will, and will continue to play the game as much as I can. Even if it's not like poker or golf.
We aren't saying anyone should stop promoting pool OR doing what they love.
I am just saying (personally, to me) pool isn't broken, but I also think it will take more than just us to make it mainstream.
I still love pool, always will, and will continue to play the game as much as I can. Even if it's not like poker or golf.
I'm really not trying to say it will take us to make it mainstream; rather, it takes us to "get the ball rolling" image-wise (via our actions) in order to change how the game and players are perceived so that mainstream will start taking a look. I hear yea though ...
BTW, I liked the vid you made with Ash at http://www.poolstudents.net/index.php --- Mi_Billiards (Steve) and I were back and forth while he was cutting, splicing, editing, reediting, researching music that ASCAP wouldn't pounce on anyone for ... etc, etc. He willingly/gladly put in well over 150 hours on that -- now there is dedication and dogged pool support for yea! Hats off to yea Steve.
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Thanks! Steve did a FABULOUS job!! That vid didn't include Ashley, tho - the one he worked over 150 hours on. Which, I still feel very bad it took that long.
http://www.poolstudents.net/melinda1pkt.html