Beginners section?
- Thread starter jamnut
- Start date
Before you start asking questions, let me tell you to do something I wish I was told to do a long time ago: learn all about your pool room and it's surroundings. Take in the atmosphere. Next time you're there, why don't you just walk around your table for a few minutes before you start banging balls.
If you do this, your bound to bump into a 500 pound gorilla. His name is Deflection, although freinds call him "Squirt." My advice is, right off the bat, try and get to know Squirt. He's gonna show up in your pool room every single time you get down on a shot.
He's gonna be lookin' over your right shoulder, looking' over your left shoulder....sometimes you'll even see him lookin' back at you from the other side of the table - right behind the object ball. I Kidd you not! Sometimes I like to play early in the morning. I'll find him SLEEPING ON THE TABLE!
The point is: you're going to be told to try and take the cue - stick straight back, take it straight forward, and hit the cue - ball right smack in the verticle center. Being a beginner, you might not succeed at this all the time.
The thing is; there are a whole lot of posters in this forum who will give you tips, when you tell them you miss, in an attempt to straighten out your stroke; but, who for some reason I can't figure out, will evade mentioning "Squirt - the 500 pound gorilla" and his role in causing the miss.
As I said, "I can't quite figure this out!" I mean...the damn gorilla is 500 pounds for God's sake. When he pounds his fist on the table it tends to alter the trajectory of the balls!
So... My advice (I know - you didn't ask!) is to Google "Pool and deflection." then Google " Pool and squirt." Then do the same thing over at YOU TUBE. Then do some more walking around the pool table. Try and get to know Squirt. Don't let anybody tell you you have to be enemies.
He's going to be hanging around your table every single moment you have cue in your hands. He's REALLY BIG! If you want to become enemies with him, you better weigh more than 500 pounds yourself, or you're gonna end up on the losing end.
Why don't you read about him a bit. Then watch how he operates. Learn his various personality characteristics, his likes, his dislikes. Then see if you can befriend him. Do all this before you start playing seriously.
When starting a new endeavor, it can't hurt to start with a friend......especially if your friend weighs 500 pounds!
Thanks to all for your replies! This is the best welcome I've gotten on any of the fora that I am a member of.
His Boy Elroy, I will certainly learn as much as I can about squirt, swerve, squerve, which are interesting phenomena in themselves. The physics of those are interesting to me, and I bet Dr. Dave has some physics about them on his web site. I can have my father-in-law, who is a physicist (and plays pool) help me understand them. That way I can use them when the time comes.
That time won't be for a while though, as I am just sticking to fundamentals now, stance, grip, aim, stroke, etc. I don't need English for a while, but when I do, I have been forewarned, thanks to you, Elroy.
Right now I am doing the 3000 stroke drill advocated by Tor Lowry, which is 188 racks of balls, including cue. I still have 178 racks to go. I think this will benefit me, as I like drills, repetition, and know that muscle memory works for me.
I need to get FUNDAMENTALS down. Right?
Happy New Year 2018!
His Boy Elroy, I will certainly learn as much as I can about squirt, swerve, squerve, which are interesting phenomena in themselves. The physics of those are interesting to me, and I bet Dr. Dave has some physics about them on his web site. I can have my father-in-law, who is a physicist (and plays pool) help me understand them. That way I can use them when the time comes.
That time won't be for a while though, as I am just sticking to fundamentals now, stance, grip, aim, stroke, etc. I don't need English for a while, but when I do, I have been forewarned, thanks to you, Elroy.
Right now I am doing the 3000 stroke drill advocated by Tor Lowry, which is 188 racks of balls, including cue. I still have 178 racks to go. I think this will benefit me, as I like drills, repetition, and know that muscle memory works for me.
I need to get FUNDAMENTALS down. Right?
Happy New Year 2018!
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Dude I just purchased the Zero-X digital download package myself. I have only watch 20% of the whole thing so far and I find this very valuable...and I have been playing serious for 10 years.
Welcome to AZB, always nice to see new blood joining
Welcome aboard!
You will see lots of different opinions here, and you will see a ton of great information. My advise is to read a lot, and not take things as gospel. The reason I say this is that you will find folks that are so very experienced at this game, so knowledgeable and so very much better at this than I ever will be.....and they will say one thing. Then you can find someone else just as experienced, just as knowledgeable and also so very much better than I'll ever be take an opposing view. There are very few absolutes....
The great thing is that after a while hear, you will get a sense of the folks here who are ones to listen to. They are so good about sharing their experience and knowledge. You can take what they say, and try to apply it to your own game, and your own method of doing things. I've learned so much in my time here, and obviously have a tremendous amount more to learn.
The advise someone else mentioned about searching here by using Google is spot on, by the way. This sites search function is, shall we say....challenging. (Frustrating is more accurate.) I say this because at some point you will ask a question, and someone will bark at you "Use the search function!", and that is the worst advise anyone can give you regarding this site. It will drive you away, if you really want an answer to a specific question.....
The Ask The Instructor sub-forum is great, as well. All my suggestions above still apply, as you will see differing opinions there, but those folks have been so very helpful to me and many others, definitely check that out as well.
Have fun here. It's a great place.
You will see lots of different opinions here, and you will see a ton of great information. My advise is to read a lot, and not take things as gospel. The reason I say this is that you will find folks that are so very experienced at this game, so knowledgeable and so very much better at this than I ever will be.....and they will say one thing. Then you can find someone else just as experienced, just as knowledgeable and also so very much better than I'll ever be take an opposing view. There are very few absolutes....
The great thing is that after a while hear, you will get a sense of the folks here who are ones to listen to. They are so good about sharing their experience and knowledge. You can take what they say, and try to apply it to your own game, and your own method of doing things. I've learned so much in my time here, and obviously have a tremendous amount more to learn.
The advise someone else mentioned about searching here by using Google is spot on, by the way. This sites search function is, shall we say....challenging. (Frustrating is more accurate.) I say this because at some point you will ask a question, and someone will bark at you "Use the search function!", and that is the worst advise anyone can give you regarding this site. It will drive you away, if you really want an answer to a specific question.....
The Ask The Instructor sub-forum is great, as well. All my suggestions above still apply, as you will see differing opinions there, but those folks have been so very helpful to me and many others, definitely check that out as well.
Have fun here. It's a great place.
No beginner section, but never ever ever ask or comment about the APA or aiming systems, it's the religion and politics of the forum LOL
No-one ever changes their mind, and there is just a lot of yelling and name calling.
Jump Cues also maybe.
Keep away from those 3 topics and you will live to see your 100ths post here!
Oh, and don't take anything Tramp Steamer posts as the truth, he has been on several experimental drug trials at the same time lately, as well as being a test subject for sleep deprivation. At least that's my theory
Most avatars are not really the picture of the person posting, except for justadub, he really is a lobster.
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I think you might be ANSWERING a lot of "dumb" questions here very soon. Good soilid approach for a beginner, I don't think many of us started out doing it that way.
The most helpful resources I've found are the Dr. Dave stuff, Jimmy Reid's videos, Grady Matthews' videos, the new Rodney Morris "Rocket's Science" video (grab a copy from FastLenny), and also videotaping myself.
My advice - definitely get the fundamentals (bridges, stroke, alignment, visualization, aiming, pre-shot routine, etc) solid as hell. There are world class instructors who post on here so don't make it up yourself just ask them and do what they say. Don't waste time, you need to hit a million balls but you need to hit them correctly to take the shortest path to "good player". If you hit a million balls badly then you'll have to hit another million to untrain the bad habits, then another million to get it right. Start correctly and it'll pay off huge.
Welcome!
No beginner section, but never ever ever ask or comment about the APA or aiming systems, it's the religion and politics of the forum LOL
No-one ever changes their mind, and there is just a lot of yelling and name calling.
Jump Cues also maybe.
Keep away from those 3 topics and you will live to see your 100ths post here!
Oh, and don't take anything Tramp Steamer posts as the truth, he has been on several experimental drug trials at the same time lately, as well as being a test subject for sleep deprivation. At least that's my theory
Most avatars are not really the picture of the person posting, except for justadub, he really is a lobster.
Truth!
I can see how my previous post (# 22) might be misunderstood. Beginners should defintlely focus on hitting a pure center ball. My point is: they should be made aware, right from the start, that when they come forward with a crooked stroke, and - or hit the cue - ball to the right or left of the verticle axis, deflection results.
That way they can develope a feel, right from the start, of what deflection is. This is a pet - peeve of mine....not explaining to beginners exactly why they missed when they miss. Also; some posters may be aware that I'm a practitioner of T.O.I. I was once called a "T.O.i. Evangelist" .....true to a point.
This, however, doesn't mean I can't respect the skills of a fine center - baller. I'll still say though, that it's not possible to reach one's potential as a center - baller without vast knowledge of how to create deflection. You can't be good at avoiding deflection without being good at creating deflection.
Anyhow; as I said it's a pet peeve. From what he writes, Jamnut seems to be taking a sound approach to his learning. I just wish he and all other beginners would develop a "Feel" for unintentional deflection from the start. It will pay off down the line, when it's time to "Deal" with deflection, no matter in what manner they choose to deal with it.
That way they can develope a feel, right from the start, of what deflection is. This is a pet - peeve of mine....not explaining to beginners exactly why they missed when they miss. Also; some posters may be aware that I'm a practitioner of T.O.I. I was once called a "T.O.i. Evangelist" .....true to a point.
This, however, doesn't mean I can't respect the skills of a fine center - baller. I'll still say though, that it's not possible to reach one's potential as a center - baller without vast knowledge of how to create deflection. You can't be good at avoiding deflection without being good at creating deflection.
Anyhow; as I said it's a pet peeve. From what he writes, Jamnut seems to be taking a sound approach to his learning. I just wish he and all other beginners would develop a "Feel" for unintentional deflection from the start. It will pay off down the line, when it's time to "Deal" with deflection, no matter in what manner they choose to deal with it.
I didn't even know there was a new here section. How bad is that lol? Btw, welcome Jnut.
" Beginners should defintlely focus on hitting a pure center ball. My point is: they should be made aware, right from the start, that when they come forward with a crooked stroke, and - or hit the cue - ball to the right or left of the verticle axis, deflection results."
Ah, that is more clear now, Elroy.
Yes, sometimes I think I am hitting center, only to find the ball missing the target by just a bit, which is where deflection is coming in(?) So your advice does not only pertain to English, but to supposed "center ball strokes" which are NOT center ball strokes.
I will look into deflection more, and concentrate on hitting center.
Thanks!
Ah, that is more clear now, Elroy.
Yes, sometimes I think I am hitting center, only to find the ball missing the target by just a bit, which is where deflection is coming in(?) So your advice does not only pertain to English, but to supposed "center ball strokes" which are NOT center ball strokes.
I will look into deflection more, and concentrate on hitting center.
Thanks!
I think these two posts would be an excellent instruction introduction to a book worth buying.
It's informative, well written, ....and made me smile.
No beginner section, but never ever ever ask or comment about the APA or aiming systems, it's the religion and politics of the forum LOL
Oh, and don't take anything Tramp Steamer posts as the truth, he has been on several experimental drug trials at the same time lately, as well as being a test subject for sleep deprivation. At least that's my theory
Hang is right about the aiming system thing. Remind me to tell you about the Great Aiming War of '07. It will curdle your blood.
I have been on some new medications lately, but that was to remedy a droopy eyelid, and double vision. I got to the point where I had to play One Pocket like the Three Stooges. Aim at the ball in the middle.
I gotta go take a nap. :thumbup:
Thanks pt.
Jamnut,
There are 2 broad categories of reasons why players miss. The first reason is improper aiming. I can't really write about this because I have no difficulty aiming. The issues can get complex though and it's not unusual for some rancor to occur when they're discussed. If you enter the "Aiming" section, bring a hard hat!
If the cut is not too severe, I only miss for 3 reasons......they have to do with "Swerve,"Throw," and "DEFLECTION." Certainly, you should learn about swerve and throw; but, as I wrote, deflection is the five hundred pound gorilla in the room.
Swerve doesn't come ino play unless the shot is somewhat slow. You might have some problems with cut induced throw at first; but, you should learn how to deal with it. If you're a beginner, maybe you shouldn't even think about swerve and throw for a while while playing. You should read about them though.
So let's talk about deflection. I'm at a level where I can deal with swerve and throw pretty well. Basically, If I'm shooting center ball (I don't shoot center ball often. I'm a T.O.I guy....you don't need to learn aout T.O.I. for some time) and the cut is not too severe, I miss for one reason. As I said, I have no problem aiming.
I, therefore, miss because I come forward with a crooked stroke. This causes the tip of my cue to touch the cue - ball either to the right or left of verticle center. This, in turn, causes spin to be applied to the cue - ball. This, of course, results in the cue - ball deflecting to the left if hit right of the verticle center. The end result is...the object ball misses the pocket to the right.
If I come forward with a crooked stroke and hit the cue - ball left of verticle center, the cue - ball deflects to the right. The end result is....the object ball misses the pocket to the left.
You might wonder why I'm explaining this to you. Isn't it written in books for beginners? Don't all instructors explain this to beginners?
Well.....not exactly! At least not all books and not by all instructors (or all posters or that matter) A lot of folks seem to think deflection is something beginners shouldn't learn about for a while.
Others don't want to tell beginners their stroke is crooked. Hell; they don't want to admit their own stroke is crooked. I got news for you, Jamnut. Your stroke is crooked at times. Every poster in AZ has a stroke that is crooked at times. Every pool instructor in the world has a stroke that is crooked at times. Every past and current pro had or has a stroke that is crooked at times. If you sometimes come forward perfectly straight, you do it less often than a pro!
You know what else? It's been mentioned here a few times by players "In the know" that a few of the all - time greats had consistently crooked strokes......the crookedness doesn't have to be visible to the eye to be crooked!
Great as they were, I'm sure all those guys wish they had straighter strokes Having a straight stroke should be your goal too.
Gee! (I don't post all that often. As I said....this is a pet peeve!) All I know is that I wish 45 years ago when I started out, that someone had told me the reason I missed non - severe cut shots 99% of the time was because of DEFLECTION. (I don't think deflection was discovered until later though)
So if you come forward straight you make the shot and if you come forward crooked you miss the shot. What the hell's the point cluttering a beginner's mind with the physics as to why?
The reason is: You'll be instructed that proper mechanics will produce a straight stroke....not exactly! A combination of proper mechanics and proper FEEL will produce a straight stroke. It's possible to FEEL STRAIGHT!
Obtaining a feel for deflection is PARAMOUNT - even if it's a feel for unintentional deflection. There's no reason why you can't start getting a feel for deflection right from the start.
If your goal is to obtain a straight stoke, as I wrote, proper mechanics are essential. Proper feel, as I wrote, is also essential.......You just can't obtain a "Feel" for a straight stroke if you don't first obtain a feel for deflection.
Good luck!
Jamnut,
There are 2 broad categories of reasons why players miss. The first reason is improper aiming. I can't really write about this because I have no difficulty aiming. The issues can get complex though and it's not unusual for some rancor to occur when they're discussed. If you enter the "Aiming" section, bring a hard hat!
If the cut is not too severe, I only miss for 3 reasons......they have to do with "Swerve,"Throw," and "DEFLECTION." Certainly, you should learn about swerve and throw; but, as I wrote, deflection is the five hundred pound gorilla in the room.
Swerve doesn't come ino play unless the shot is somewhat slow. You might have some problems with cut induced throw at first; but, you should learn how to deal with it. If you're a beginner, maybe you shouldn't even think about swerve and throw for a while while playing. You should read about them though.
So let's talk about deflection. I'm at a level where I can deal with swerve and throw pretty well. Basically, If I'm shooting center ball (I don't shoot center ball often. I'm a T.O.I guy....you don't need to learn aout T.O.I. for some time) and the cut is not too severe, I miss for one reason. As I said, I have no problem aiming.
I, therefore, miss because I come forward with a crooked stroke. This causes the tip of my cue to touch the cue - ball either to the right or left of verticle center. This, in turn, causes spin to be applied to the cue - ball. This, of course, results in the cue - ball deflecting to the left if hit right of the verticle center. The end result is...the object ball misses the pocket to the right.
If I come forward with a crooked stroke and hit the cue - ball left of verticle center, the cue - ball deflects to the right. The end result is....the object ball misses the pocket to the left.
You might wonder why I'm explaining this to you. Isn't it written in books for beginners? Don't all instructors explain this to beginners?
Well.....not exactly! At least not all books and not by all instructors (or all posters or that matter) A lot of folks seem to think deflection is something beginners shouldn't learn about for a while.
Others don't want to tell beginners their stroke is crooked. Hell; they don't want to admit their own stroke is crooked. I got news for you, Jamnut. Your stroke is crooked at times. Every poster in AZ has a stroke that is crooked at times. Every pool instructor in the world has a stroke that is crooked at times. Every past and current pro had or has a stroke that is crooked at times. If you sometimes come forward perfectly straight, you do it less often than a pro!
You know what else? It's been mentioned here a few times by players "In the know" that a few of the all - time greats had consistently crooked strokes......the crookedness doesn't have to be visible to the eye to be crooked!
Great as they were, I'm sure all those guys wish they had straighter strokes Having a straight stroke should be your goal too.
Gee! (I don't post all that often. As I said....this is a pet peeve!) All I know is that I wish 45 years ago when I started out, that someone had told me the reason I missed non - severe cut shots 99% of the time was because of DEFLECTION. (I don't think deflection was discovered until later though)
So if you come forward straight you make the shot and if you come forward crooked you miss the shot. What the hell's the point cluttering a beginner's mind with the physics as to why?
The reason is: You'll be instructed that proper mechanics will produce a straight stroke....not exactly! A combination of proper mechanics and proper FEEL will produce a straight stroke. It's possible to FEEL STRAIGHT!
Obtaining a feel for deflection is PARAMOUNT - even if it's a feel for unintentional deflection. There's no reason why you can't start getting a feel for deflection right from the start.
If your goal is to obtain a straight stoke, as I wrote, proper mechanics are essential. Proper feel, as I wrote, is also essential.......You just can't obtain a "Feel" for a straight stroke if you don't first obtain a feel for deflection.
Good luck!
No beginner section, but never ever ever ask or comment about the APA or aiming systems, it's the religion and politics of the forum LOL
No-one ever changes their mind, and there is just a lot of yelling and name calling.
Jump Cues also maybe.
Keep away from those 3 topics and you will live to see your 100ths post here!
Oh, and don't take anything Tramp Steamer posts as the truth, he has been on several experimental drug trials at the same time lately, as well as being a test subject for sleep deprivation. At least that's my theory
Most avatars are not really the picture of the person posting, except for justadub, he really is a lobster.
Hang-the-9 you also forgot to mention the topic of break cues. Welcome jamnut.